Captains

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Wayne Shorne

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There is a lot on here about spin bowling, but can't find a lot about one very important thing that can either help or hinder a leggie learning his craft - the captain.

Every leg spinner needs a brave captain that understands the pros and cons to leg spin bowling. You can quite often go for runs, but will also get wickets.
Unfortunately the way I see it is I have a captain that only has eyes for economy bowlers.
I bowl nicely in the nets with plenty of reward, but have bowled probably 20 overs in my life out in the middle. With match practise I am confident I can replicate my training "bowling". But how do I do that when the captain won't accept (or understand) the short term pain.
I bowled twice at the start of the year, for figures of 1-20 of 2 overs and 3-40 of 5. (They were all genuine wickets too -not caught on the fence) And never got a bowl again for the rest of the year.

What are your thoughts/experiences on your captains?
 
Yes i'm well aware of what is required from an established leg spinner, wickets and economy. That is not how any leg spinner starts off though, including myself. Which is my point. To get to where you need to be as a leg spinner, you need many things including match practise, which is where the captain comes in.
 
A friend, who was a captain that hardly bowled me, said to me "I got the job to help the team win games, not make friends". Basically if he felt that someone could do a better job than me at the time they got the ball, not me. My way in took time:
  • Bowl really well in the nets and let the batsmen know. Best way is to tell them how you're going to get them out and then do it. Make your teammates look like jerks.
  • Talk to the captain about a go-to field that will work for you if you bowl. It should be an 'in-out' field so there's wicket and run saving options, will give the captain peace of mind. When you do get to bowl the captain is ready and in the mindset that you need to support your bowling
  • When the other bowlers are doing nothing let the captain know that you are an option for something different. There will be plenty of dead games and lost causes for you to get a go.
Whatever it is worth it worked for me.
 
Here's a simple tip: Bowl really well at the captain in nets. If you are always getting him out he will work out for himself he's going to need you in games.
 
Wayne Shorne said:
There is a lot on here about spin bowling, but can't find a lot about one very important thing that can either help or hinder a leggie learning his craft - the captain.

Every leg spinner needs a brave captain that understands the pros and cons to leg spin bowling. You can quite often go for runs, but will also get wickets.
Unfortunately the way I see it is I have a captain that only has eyes for economy bowlers.
I bowl nicely in the nets with plenty of reward, but have bowled probably 20 overs in my life out in the middle. With match practise I am confident I can replicate my training "bowling". But how do I do that when the captain won't accept (or understand) the short term pain.
I bowled twice at the start of the year, for figures of 1-20 of 2 overs and 3-40 of 5. (They were all genuine wickets too -not caught on the fence) And never got a bowl again for the rest of the year.

What are your thoughts/experiences on your captains?
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What I Would Do:

After a match when heading back to the dressing room, talk to him in the dressing room and make him change slowly, when everybody finishes and goes, and when youre alone in the dressing room with him, pick up a bloody bat and smack him hard, as hard as you can on his legs... Continue.... When you get tired ask him if hes learnt vis lesson if not restart hitting him but hopefuly he would have learnt his lesson then tell him that at the next match you decide whos gonna bowl and when.... Walk out like nothing happened... Simple
 
shahidpak said:
What I Would Do:

After a match when heading back to the dressing room, talk to him in the dressing room and make him change slowly, when everybody finishes and goes, and when youre alone in the dressing room with him, pick up a bloody bat and smack him hard, as hard as you can on his legs... Continue.... When you get tired ask him if hes learnt vis lesson if not restart hitting him but hopefuly he would have learnt his lesson then tell him that at the next match you decide whos gonna bowl and when.... Walk out like nothing happened... Simple
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Blimey.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Blimey.
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The bottom line is - what we do is ...

(1). Probably the least understood discipline in cricket.
(2). The most difficult to learn.
(3). The one that goes wrong the most as you learn.
(4). The one that take years to learn.
(5). Probably looks like the least likely method of being successful to the rest of the team for a variety of reasons.

You have to be half decent at it and take wickets, it's bloody hard.
 
shahidpak said:
What I Would Do:

After a match when heading back to the dressing room, talk to him in the dressing room and make him change slowly, when everybody finishes and goes, and when youre alone in the dressing room with him, pick up a bloody bat and smack him hard, as hard as you can on his legs... Continue.... When you get tired ask him if hes learnt vis lesson if not restart hitting him but hopefuly he would have learnt his lesson then tell him that at the next match you decide whos gonna bowl and when.... Walk out like nothing happened... Simple
Click to expand...
Great, you've just gone to jail for assault. On the flip side the prison team probably needs a good spin bowler...
 
shahidpak said:
What I Would Do:

After a match when heading back to the dressing room, talk to him in the dressing room and make him change slowly, when everybody finishes and goes, and when youre alone in the dressing room with him, pick up a bloody bat and smack him hard, as hard as you can on his legs... Continue.... When you get tired ask him if hes learnt vis lesson if not restart hitting him but hopefuly he would have learnt his lesson then tell him that at the next match you decide whos gonna bowl and when.... Walk out like nothing happened... Simple
Click to expand...
What happens when you get a bowl next match and get tonked at 10 an over? Is that where the guilt kicks in?
 
Wayne Shorne's got it about right, it is the reason why so many kids do give up, but I have to say that when you are younger probably through to about the point where you start playing adult cricket and you're 17, I've seen that they do seem to give you a chance and cut you some slack, it seems as though if you're not taking wickets by the time you're about 16, you then get the cold shoulder and they're less accommodating. If you have a captain who is a spinner you're half way there as well, or choose a team if possible that plays friendlies and learn your trade in that scenario where it's less of an issue if you lose?
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Wayne Shorne's got it about right, it is the reason why so many kids do give up, but I have to say that when you are younger probably through to about the point where you start playing adult cricket and you're 17, I've seen that they do seem to give you a chance and cut you some slack, it seems as though if you're not taking wickets by the time you're about 16, you then get the cold shoulder and they're less accommodating. If you have a captain who is a spinner you're half way there as well, or choose a team if possible that plays friendlies and learn your trade in that scenario where it's less of an issue if you lose?
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I agree mostly Dave. 10-15 years ago I would have agreed totally. As a child learning, the junior coaches used to give the kids lots of chances in games regardless of performance, many still do. But junior cricket and sport in general has become a lot more serious now than it used to be. And lesser talented kids/legspiners learning are not given as much of a go as they used to.

For those of us that take up Leg Spin as an adult and play senior cricket, even more so you need to get pretty good at it pretty quickly otherwise the captain will lose patients after a short time and use his proven bowlers. I also agree that for most of us that take it up late, you need to chose a club that bowls most of their lineup every game. Probably a team that either struggles to win every week or doesn't play for sheep stations.
 
Wayne Shorne said:
I agree mostly Dave. 10-15 years ago I would have agreed totally. As a child learning, the junior coaches used to give the kids lots of chances in games regardless of performance, many still do. But junior cricket and sport in general has become a lot more serious now than it used to be. And lesser talented kids/legspiners learning are not given as much of a go as they used to.

For those of us that take up Leg Spin as an adult and play senior cricket, even more so you need to get pretty good at it pretty quickly otherwise the captain will lose patients after a short time and use his proven bowlers. I also agree that for most of us that take it up late, you need to chose a club that bowls most of their lineup every game. Probably a team that either struggles to win every week or doesn't play for sheep stations.
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Can't comment on sheep station cricket, but sounds interesting and would love to know how they might differ from teams that represent towns and villages! I guess my over-view of the situation is actually quite limited and I can only talk about it from that perspective. I think a lot of the time the driving force that makes the kid give up is possibly part intrinsic. You have to be tough to endure being smacked for fours and sixes by batsmen some days, our 15 year old who played in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th XI last year was frequently smacked all around the park when he got it wrong and other days he gets a bag full of wickets. But when he is targeted his head drops and he looks as though he may not have the mental toughness, to keep it up. I no longer have anything to do with him, so I don't know who looks out for him, I guess it's his Dad? But he's also a good batsman, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes this year? In my last team - they had a kid in similar situation as I changed teams - Ross; he's now in his 20's and plays in the 1st XI and as far as I know he's there as a batsman - I think he bowls a bit of legspin on the odd occasion - but not as an attacking option as far as I can make out. Whereas in the same team they had another bloke Alex "The Wizard" McLellan who at the team was learning and being hit all over the shop in between days when he'd take a bagfull. He was in his late 20's or early 30's and therefore much more thick skinned, determined and resilient, he's kept at it and as far as I'm aware is used as an attacking leggie and is seen as an asset to the team. It kind of almost mirrors professional cricket in some sense - Adil Rashid for instance - destroyed as a youngster playing for England, but now seen as being a bit older, a bit wiser and possibly more resilient and they're giving him another chance in the series against the West Indies by the sounds of it?

Going back to the kids - we've got an up and coming kid 'Mo' (Mohammed) who's only 12, who's taken up spin bowling and he'll get an equal share of the overs when he plays, even if he is smacked around on occasions - I guess we'll have to watch this space over the coming years and see how our two young leggies go?

Just remembered we've got a Chinaman bowler as well, but he has an added asset to his bowling... He bowls finger spin as well, so he has one that goes away from the right-hander with his left arm orthodox. He's primarily a bowler and think he does okay same as everyone that bowls spin - some matches he does well others he goes for loads, but he's nearly 17 now and he looks as though he's in for the long haul, but he's got the variation thing going for him. I'm judging this primarily on last years season - we had a funny year last year with the teams being moved around all over the shop because of a lack of players, it'll be interesting to see if these kids are able to settle in one team or another and make their mark? I think overall, our spinners are given a go, but pulled if they make no impact and go for runs, whereas my son who's 16 will always bowl out his full allocation of 12 overs seemingly irrespective of his figures on a bad day, because on average he'll bowl tight overs and take wickets on a regular basis.
 
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