Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

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SLA said:
Its hard to do anything in a "strong" fashion from a standing start, because you don't have the natural rhythm and momentum you have through a full action.

Standing start drills should just be used to groove the shape and alignment of the action. They also need to be done with care because if you use a starting position that doesn't replicate a transitory position you would actually use in a full bowling action, you are liable to inadvertently give yourself serious timing issues. I would only do a standing start drill under the supervision of a professional coach.
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If I'm doing a "standing" drill, I always do a slow walk and jump too, then pause over the crease when when my arm is up and my front foot about to come down. Actually standing is just awkward. You lose the resistance of the ground through the action. To get the power of the last part of the action, really have to do the entire part of the chain, not just swing arms and rotate hips.

You're are right about the timing too. Even repeating what's basically the last bit of my action (or perhaps what my action should be) in the "standing drill," I've only just started to get the timing with a run-up. Timing can get a while to get right. It often has to with details of the run-up which lead into the action. Your run-up has to set you up into the position of the "standing" drill, something that doing the "standing drill" doesn't work on.
 
The Edge Of Willow said:
If I'm doing a "standing" drill, I always do a slow walk and jump too, then pause over the crease when when my arm is up and my front foot about to come down. Actually standing is just awkward. You lose the resistance of the ground through the action. To get the power of the last part of the action, really have to do the entire part of the chain, not just swing arms and rotate hips.

You're are right about the timing too. Even repeating what's basically the last bit of my action (or perhaps what my action should be) in the "standing drill," I've only just started to get the timing with a run-up. Timing can get a while to get right. It often has to with details of the run-up which lead into the action. Your run-up has to set you up into the position of the "standing" drill, something that doing the "standing drill" doesn't work on.
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When I've done stand start drills, as leftie mentioned a page or two back, I've done it over a shorter distance. A stand start drill over the full distance is, as you say, awkward. But it is good for showing the short of position you should aim to be in from a normal run up. One thing you will always get right with a stand start is the upright position. A lot of people tend to drop to their left a bit too much and that impacts on the position of the bowling arm and so on. A stand start drill is good for reminding you of the benefit of being reasonable upright at the point of release.

One thing I've found, and I've mentioned this before, is the direction of the bowling arm as it moves into the delivery position is absolutely crucial. Ideally, the arm stays on the same plane right through the action. At the very most, it moves slightly to the off-side (like Ish Sodhi). What you absolutely do not want is for that arm to move towards the legside, even a very small amount. My position at the crease used to see my arm move behind me and then move on a straight line with the ball released whilst the arm is completely vertical. To do that, my head pulled to the left a fair bit to make room. But it worked and I bowled with big spin. However, when I tried to bowl flat out and get the sort of pace and trajectory of a pro bowler my action didn't allow it. I had to make changes. Quite possibly I also encountered problems after working on the googly. To cut a long story short, my arm was moving to the legside as it was moving into the delivery position. It moved to the legside only a small amount. You probably wouldn't notice it unless you watched it back and kept a close eye on it. The problem is, when that arm is moving on that line at pace, it forces the wrist to open a little early and you can't get full purchase on the ball.

I've bowled like that and got a bit of turn. As soon as I focus on keeping that bowling arm moving on a straight line (just outside off-stump all the way), the ball spins a lot more.

It's amazing how small things impact. Small things that are not quite right at the start of the action become significant problems by the point of release. That smoothness of action and the synchronicity of the elements of an action is what good quality legspin is all about.
 
Well struggled today at practice but felt I might have had a bit of a breakthrough at the end. I've got fed up of just producing topspin and wanted some big turning stuff. I think I was getting it at the end but it was so dark I couldn't really see properly. I got locked in the park too and had to scale a fence into the pub to escape, interrupting a game of crazy golf as I did so
 
Well I am going to have to start practising a bit with running in. Unless I plan to bowl from a standing start in games.

My bowling is really coming on but I am still having trouble turning the ball sharply, unless I go really roundarm when it seems pretty straightforward. It's an issue of seam position. Maybe I should just bowl from 10 o'clock arm position? It's not illegal
 
boogiespinner said:
Well I am going to have to start practising a bit with running in. Unless I plan to bowl from a standing start in games.

My bowling is really coming on but I am still having trouble turning the ball sharply, unless I go really roundarm when it seems pretty straightforward. It's an issue of seam position. Maybe I should just bowl from 10 o'clock arm position? It's not illegal
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If you land the ball on the seam, you will get sharper turn. But also, land the ball off the seam and the ball is skid through a bit quicker. Bowling with a scrambled seam is often a very good way to bowling with natural variety. Some will land on the seam and turn, most with turn a little and skid through. For a lot of people, the position of the arm will determine how cleanly presented the seam is. For others, it makes no difference. If you get more turn with a lower arm, then try a lower arm. But I wouldn't drop it too low because you may then start to have problems with a consistent line and length.
 
Cleanprophet said:
If you land the ball on the seam, you will get sharper turn. But also, land the ball off the seam and the ball is skid through a bit quicker. Bowling with a scrambled seam is often a very good way to bowling with natural variety. Some will land on the seam and turn, most with turn a little and skid through. For a lot of people, the position of the arm will determine how cleanly presented the seam is. For others, it makes no difference. If you get more turn with a lower arm, then try a lower arm. But I wouldn't drop it too low because you may then start to have problems with a consistent line and length.
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It's not a scrambled seam issue, it's the axis of spin - if I could bowl a pure (90 degree) legbreak, then that translates fine from round arm to a vertical arm. It's the same both ways. But that is not the case with a 45 degree legbreak. A 45 degree legbreak landing cleanly on the seam bowled with a horizontal arm will not land on the seam bowled with a vertical arm - it would be midway between the pure legbreak and a "flying saucer".

In practice - with a higher arm I find it harder to get the bigger legbreak seam angles, but get them quite easily roundarm
 
boogiespinner said:
It's not a scrambled seam issue, it's the axis of spin - if I could bowl a pure (90 degree) legbreak, then that translates fine from round arm to a vertical arm. It's the same both ways. But that is not the case with a 45 degree legbreak. A 45 degree legbreak landing cleanly on the seam bowled with a horizontal arm will not land on the seam bowled with a vertical arm - it would be midway between the pure legbreak and a "flying saucer".

In practice - with a higher arm I find it harder to get the bigger legbreak seam angles, but get them quite easily roundarm
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In general, the higher the arm, the less likely you are to get that upright seam position. So, slightly more roundarm definitely helps. A lot depends on the individual because some bowlers will still be able to get their fingers over the top of the ball with a vertical arm. It's also why a drop of the left shoulder can be problematic because a similar problem can occur.

That said, if you have to go with a very low arm to get the ball upright, then that's not ideal.

I had a game yesterday. This time, we had 7 players rather than the 5 we had the previous game. The opposition gave us a couple of fielders but we were still bowling first with only 9 players. As a bowler, this is a terrible scenario to bowl in. 4/3 field instead of a 5/4 field. Lots of decent deliveries were blocked for one run, so the option of putting pressure on one batter wasn't really there. Plus, if they wanted to slog, they could go for it in the knowledge that they would probably miss the fielder. If they hit the fielder, there's a fair chance he would make a mess of it. Not good.

On the plus side, the weather was nice and warm and I could actually grip the ball, unlike the very wet conditions from 2 weeks ago. It was an all-weather pitch, but I didn't mind that. I was getting plenty of turn and beating the bat plenty. Bowled a few googlys as well, including one that probably should have been LBW. Took just the one wicket but it was a beauty. Pitching on or just outside leg and turning sharply to hit top of off.

I wasn't consistent enough with a line of just outside offstump. The length was pretty good. No short balls and just a couple of full balls (but they came from me trying a few things out due to the fielding issues). If I can bowl a more consistent line, I'll be able to put a lot more pressure on the batters.
 
Cleanprophet said:
In general, the higher the arm, the less likely you are to get that upright seam position. So, slightly more roundarm definitely helps. A lot depends on the individual because some bowlers will still be able to get their fingers over the top of the ball with a vertical arm. It's also why a drop of the left shoulder can be problematic because a similar problem can occur.

That said, if you have to go with a very low arm to get the ball upright, then that's not ideal.

I had a game yesterday. This time, we had 7 players rather than the 5 we had the previous game. The opposition gave us a couple of fielders but we were still bowling first with only 9 players. As a bowler, this is a terrible scenario to bowl in. 4/3 field instead of a 5/4 field. Lots of decent deliveries were blocked for one run, so the option of putting pressure on one batter wasn't really there. Plus, if they wanted to slog, they could go for it in the knowledge that they would probably miss the fielder. If they hit the fielder, there's a fair chance he would make a mess of it. Not good.

On the plus side, the weather was nice and warm and I could actually grip the ball, unlike the very wet conditions from 2 weeks ago. It was an all-weather pitch, but I didn't mind that. I was getting plenty of turn and beating the bat plenty. Bowled a few googlys as well, including one that probably should have been LBW. Took just the one wicket but it was a beauty. Pitching on or just outside leg and turning sharply to hit top of off.

I wasn't consistent enough with a line of just outside offstump. The length was pretty good. No short balls and just a couple of full balls (but they came from me trying a few things out due to the fielding issues). If I can bowl a more consistent line, I'll be able to put a lot more pressure on the batters.
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You need to find a team with 11 players, mate. Its more fun.
 
Third game of the season on Sunday. For a change, we had a full XI. We played on a reasonable pitch. Good bounce, not a lot of turn.. Unfortunately, we didn't have a proper keeper, again. It didn't really make much a difference to me. There was one slight stumping opportunity. Other than that, the lack of a genuine keeper didn't cost me anything. Were I did take hit was in the fielding. I'd say a good 4 or 5 of our players couldn't move very well. The opposition probably had one or two players who were lacking in athletic ability, but we had half a team.

We batted first and were 81/8 when I came in to bat (I agreed to come in at 10 so that some younger players could have a hit but they struggled). There was an older and experienced batter at the crease with me. We took the score to 131/8 (I contributed 15 from 18 and the other batter hit some nice shots to get a score of 40). Being a friendly game, once we got to Tea time we agreed to declare and they would get the same number of overs (37 overs). I tried to hit a pie chucker in that final over and got myself bowled out. It's a problem I have when I use my feet of lifting my head and not keeping it in the shot. But, if we had kept on batting, I'm sure we could have taken that 50 partnership on and got a much better target.

We reduced them to 50/4 with a young bowler of ours getting 3 or or all 4 of them with some nice swing bowling. They then had one of their 1st team batters at the crease and an Asian fella who'd not long been at the crease. The Asian batter was pretty much an impulsive legside slogger. He slogged 3 or 4 of my deliveries for 4's before I got him LBW (got him with a poor full toss that he should have smashed for runs). I should have had the other batter twice. He lobbed one up to a young lad and he put it down. Then there was a slightly tougher one that would have been caught by a decent fielder. Towards the end, there was another opportunity for a catch that wasn't quite taken. In the end, I picked up 3 wickets. One was a nice googly that the batter didn't read at all and the final one was a miss hit to mid on.

Overall, I didn't bowl as well as I'd have liked. Picked up 3 wickets and it could have been a few more, but I didn't quite have the consistency I wanted. I didn't bowl as well to the legside slogger as I should have. I should have put some fielders back on the boundary and flighted some balls onto offstump or just fired in a few flat and comfortably outside off. I served up a few too many that he could get hold of. I didn't check my figures at the end, so I don't even know how many overs I bowled or how many I went for. I think I bowled about 8 or 9 overs and probably went for about 50.
 
Had a really good solo net session tonight.

From a standing start, I am turning it quite nicely and consistently, and the really cool thing is that the ball is definitely humming through the air... just a little but it's there. This is one of my life's ambitions.

I need to now work on putting it together with a run up - I think I might just gently run up and deliver, not putting too much in so I can basically bowl as I do from standing and then take it from there.

My improvement is coming at a much faster rate since I started turning up to the nets with a bag of 50 balls (and waiting for everyone else to leave!). I totally recommend this.

Encouraging :)
 
Didn't get a chance to bowl at the weekend as our seamers were all over the oppo, but I had 3 overs last night in T20, bowling the 15th, 17th and 19th over with the opposition needing ~ 8 an over to chase down our target on a hard bouncy pitch. Always a fun situation for a spinner to be in, as if you can find a decent length and bowl at a good pace and get the ball going both ways and really flying off the pitch, you can repeatedly beat both edges of the bat.

I didn't find a huge amount of turn - just a couple of inches either way - but picked up 2-8 off my first two overs, both bowled through the gate (one leftie, one rightie). Unfortunately the final over wasn't so good and went for 7 runs - annoyingly I gave up my only boundary of the spell off my very last ball - to leave me with 2-15 off 3 overs. It didn't matter as they were well behind the rate by that point and finished 20 runs short in the end.

I also got a run out - I was at cover and dived to stop a hard hit ball and got my fingertips to it, but it rolled 2 yards behind me, and the batsmen decided to go for the run on the misfield. I reached back to grab it and just threw blind over my shoulder from basically lying on the floor: fortunately it went straight to the keeper and the guy was out by a good 3 yards.
 
Had a game yesterday. Again, we were short of a couple of players. Not good at all. I think it's mainly down to the club not being run properly because there's loads of players at the club, so we shouldn't have issues with getting an XI out every week for a friendly game.

We batted first on a dicey looking pitch with a very, very slow outfield. I batted at 3 and scored 19 runs. To be honest, I could probably double that score to get a true representation of how I batted because I certainly missed out on a lot of runs due to the outfield (long grass and very damp). We ended up with just 84 from our 30 overs.

Quite difficult to defend a total like that, even in slow scoriong conditions, when you only have 9 players (soon to become 8 because one players was unable to finish the game). But, we came close it took them 26 or 27 of their 30 overs.

My bowling was fairly decent. In general, I bowled a fairly good line and length. I remember bowling one full toss that was pulled for 4 runs. Other than that, the consistency was pretty good. Got plenty of turn as well and bowled a few decent googlys as well. Finished with 2 for 20 from 7 overs. Induced countless play and misses and miss hits. Managed to get a wicket from a googly with it turning in, taking the inside edge and hitting the stumps. All in all, quite happy with the bowling.
 
depressed today.

Had a net practice. The ball is turning plenty but I am sending many balls into the side netting.
Need to sort this for Sunday, I have actually been selected, possibly as we are short of players for this fixture
 
Much better tonight! Went back to just topspin, started ripping from lower down, was able to bowl with a higher arm (people had kept coming over to me to say I was too roundarm, so it must have been really low) and accuracy was better and was getting a lovely kick through. Much higher release point. And some turned anyway
 
boogiespinner said:
Much better tonight! Went back to just topspin, started ripping from lower down, was able to bowl with a higher arm (people had kept coming over to me to say I was too roundarm, so it must have been really low) and accuracy was better and was getting a lovely kick through. Much higher release point. And some turned anyway
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Yeah, as I said before, a roundarm will help with revs on the ball but it makes accuracy much harder. The more upright the arm, the more you only need to worry about length. The more roundarm you are, the more your release point impacts on length and line.
 
I am feeling I might be able to bowl ok for Sunday. I feel I've had a bit of a breakthrough, I now have a topspinner which spins hard and kicks off the pitch which I can bowl with a run up and put some real welly into. There are still wide ones, but that has improved. I can't do this new stuff with big legbreaks, I'm going to have to work on that, but I will settle for a wicked topspinner as a stock ball right now.
 
Had a game yesterday. On our home pitch, which is a very nice batting track. Good bounce, consistent bounce and a little bit of turn. More like a proper 1st class pitch than most of the pitches we get to play on.

I tended to drop a little bit too short. Not sure why. Could be the run up because it was up hill a bit and I don't normally have a problem with dropping short. Overall, I didn't bowl as well as I did the previous week but I did ok. 1 for 22 from 9 overs were my figures at the end. A lot of the batters were content to block and defend against me and attack the other bowlers.
 
Friendly against Cranham CC, amazingly I top scored with the bat - 34 (run out) and was the most economical bowler from 2 overs of seam up. Legspin not up to match pressure yet.
 
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