Subbies Thread

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Let's all calm down there will be Subbies next year but the futures of Moorabbin,Ormond,Elsternwick and Brighton remain unclear as there All struggling on the field atm.
If rumours are true Moorabbin and maybe Ormond could end up in CSB.
Mind you both clubs would have to start in Division 1 as there wouldn't beat the the top 6 Clubs in the Championship Division.
Hopefully these clubs mentioned can fire up and be competitive in subbies in all grades.
 
Longonman1970 said:
Let's all calm down there will be Subbies next year but the futures of Moorabbin,Ormond,Elsternwick and Brighton remain unclear as there All struggling on the field atm.
If rumours are true Moorabbin and maybe Ormond could end up in CSB.
Mind you both clubs would have to start in Division 1 as there wouldn't beat the the top 6 Clubs in the Championship Division.
Hopefully these clubs mentioned can fire up and be competitive in subbies in all grades.
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No way Ormond would move with some veterans still around, I hear struggling to get a coach
 
Longonman1970 said:
Let's all calm down there will be Subbies next year but the futures of Moorabbin,Ormond,Elsternwick and Brighton remain unclear as there All struggling on the field atm.
If rumours are true Moorabbin and maybe Ormond could end up in CSB.
Mind you both clubs would have to start in Division 1 as there wouldn't beat the the top 6 Clubs in the Championship Division.
Hopefully these clubs mentioned can fire up and be competitive in subbies in all grades.
Click to expand...

I am not a member of the Sunshine C C but live nearby and have been its voluntary curator since it transferred to the VTCA. I simply say its not all doom and gloom if a club can no longer cut in the subbies and has to relocate to another competition , and not even in it's senior division, for that is precisely what Sunshine experienced. It is over the moon at the moment having won the North A1 GF in the VTCA and, as a consequence, will be promoted to a higher division.
Since learning via TC's post that 19 VTCA clubs have met in the absence of the comps BoM over dissatisfaction with the manner the comp is being run, I have ascertained Sunshine was unaware of this. Given I know many people in local VTCA clubs I guess I could ask them, but will just sit back and see what happens, if anything.
 
Longonman1970 said:
Let's all calm down there will be Subbies next year but the futures of Moorabbin,Ormond,Elsternwick and Brighton remain unclear as there All struggling on the field atm.
If rumours are true Moorabbin and maybe Ormond could end up in CSB.
Mind you both clubs would have to start in Division 1 as there wouldn't beat the the top 6 Clubs in the Championship Division.
Hopefully these clubs mentioned can fire up and be competitive in subbies in all grades.
Click to expand...

Outside of the CSB area of influence, Endeavour Hills has lost a number of teams in recent years and its finances are in rescue mode. What do you think its members working to remedy its financial difficulties must think on reading recent posts of the amounts being outlaid by some clubs on players ? Another issue, is that Nancy has raised the importance of clubs maintaining 4 competitive XI's. At the risk of revealing my antiquity, I played in the subbies when it fielded only firsts and seconds. It cannot now, imo, revert to that model in the event of an increasing number of its clubs being unable to comply with fielding 4 teams. Challenging times indeed!
 
westland said:
Outside of the CSB area of influence, Endeavour Hills has lost a number of teams in recent years and its finances are in rescue mode. What do you think its members working to remedy its financial difficulties must think on reading recent posts of the amounts being outlaid by some clubs on players ? Another issue, is that Nancy has raised the importance of clubs maintaining 4 competitive XI's. At the risk of revealing my antiquity, I played in the subbies when it fielded only firsts and seconds. It cannot now, imo, revert to that model in the event of an increasing number of its clubs being unable to comply with fielding 4 teams. Challenging times indeed!
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I suspect they'd probably be thinking what everyone else at Subbies level does ... the figures quoted are a load of rot.
 
cucumber said:
I suspect they'd probably be thinking what everyone else at Subbies level does ... the figures quoted are a load of rot.
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I have to say that I share this view. I cannot see any Subbies club, or Premier club for the matter, shelling out $50K for anyone. That sort of money falls well outside the scope of standard subs + fundraising activities. Any club paying that type of money, which I doubt is correct, would be relying on benefactors to fund it, and I personally just don't see it happening at that kind of level. Who would honestly gift a club that amount of cash? If Trent Lawford or Rummans or Hastings will only play for that kind of money then I would tell them thanks but no thanks. I reckon Quiney will be back at Shark Park next year and will play for nothing.
 
Round the grounds said:
I have to say that I share this view. I cannot see any Subbies club, or Premier club for the matter, shelling out $50K for anyone. That sort of money falls well outside the scope of standard subs + fundraising activities. Any club paying that type of money, which I doubt is correct, would be relying on benefactors to fund it, and I personally just don't see it happening at that kind of level. Who would honestly gift a club that amount of cash? If Trent Lawford or Rummans or Hastings will only play for that kind of money then I would tell them thanks but no thanks. I reckon Quiney will be back at Shark Park next year and will play for nothing.
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Absolutely agree with what you stated regards thanks but no thanks. I’ve heard $30k on players seriously below the standard of the three you named.
So that’s the new reality of local cricket. Better off playing to the level your club is at and investing in junior development and facilities to attract like players if your club doesn’t have a bank of pokies or a white knight.
At least your local players will have opportunities and your club remains viable into the future.
 
Round the grounds said:
I have to say that I share this view. I cannot see any Subbies club, or Premier club for the matter, shelling out $50K for anyone. That sort of money falls well outside the scope of standard subs + fundraising activities. Any club paying that type of money, which I doubt is correct, would be relying on benefactors to fund it, and I personally just don't see it happening at that kind of level. Who would honestly gift a club that amount of cash? If Trent Lawford or Rummans or Hastings will only play for that kind of money then I would tell them thanks but no thanks. I reckon Quiney will be back at Shark Park next year and will play for nothing.
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1. This premier club in question will shell out $50k for Lawford, the club in question is backed by the same people that back the same football club and they have deep pockets and think throwing cash at players will help them go further.

2. Caulfield have the cash to pay Rummans and Thorne and any other player they want. They have plenty of cash hidden away that not many other people know about.

3. It's funny that you don't see players being paid that amount of money at either premier or subbies (suburban) level - Whilst cricket clubs don't get as much over the bar than a footy club, they do have people in high places that can and will assist.

4. Hastings would not be playing at Kew for the money, that is plain and simple - He would play there because of Kell and Weeks - The likelihood of him playing at Kew would be slim considering the points structure of VSDCA and the fact he lives near Hastings.

5. Yarraville Club shell out plenty of Coin. You think Will Sheridan went to them on next to nothing. No doubt he would be on $30k+ not to mention other players getting base wages and incentives on top of it.

6. Quiney will be getting paid no matter where he plays next year - It will be tied into a coaching role. - Thinking he wouldn't is silly.

7. I was told last year but a very reliable source that South Caulfield and 2 other teams within their comp have a budget close to $100k - $120k to spend on players.
 
DalesHack said:
Absolutely agree with what you stated regards thanks but no thanks. I’ve heard $30k on players seriously below the standard of the three you named.
So that’s the new reality of local cricket. Better off playing to the level your club is at and investing in junior development and facilities to attract like players if your club doesn’t have a bank of pokies or a white knight.
At least your local players will have opportunities and your club remains viable into the future.
Click to expand...

Most clubs have neither ''a bank of pokies or a white knight'' and therein lies the problem if they must compete in a competition that does not have a promotion and relegation system. You also say ''better off playing to the level your club is at.....". Do you mean clubs such as Moorabbin and Endeavour Hills who are totally uncompetitive in the subbies should depart?
I totally agree any club willing to outlay $45K for one player is obscene, but recent posts from a number of regulars on this forum as to the amounts some clubs are outlaying for players cannot be described ''as a load of rot''. That statement by cucumber is disrespectful of the views expressed in recent posts on this issue by persons who have a long connection with this comp. If he was asked by them justify his statement given it ridicules their posts, he would not be able to to do. It was an inane post.
 
westland said:
Most clubs have neither ''a bank of pokies or a white knight'' and therein lies the problem if they must compete in a competition that does not have a promotion and relegation system. You also say ''better off playing to the level your club is at.....". Do you mean clubs such as Moorabbin and Endeavour Hills who are totally uncompetitive in the subbies should depart?
I totally agree any club willing to outlay $45K for one player is obscene, but recent posts from a number of regulars on this forum as to the amounts some clubs are outlaying for players cannot be described ''as a load of rot''. That statement by cucumber is disrespectful of the views expressed in recent posts on this issue by persons who have a long connection with this comp. If he was asked by them justify his statement given it ridicules their posts, he would not be able to to do. It was an inane post.
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Westy, I’m not a player in the VSDCA and wouldn’t presume to suggest what Moorabbin or Endeavour Hills should do.
I have played in the subbies, in the VTCA, DDCA and now CSB. I know some comps welcome the influx of Marquee players with the associated price tags, others seem at a loss as to how to get the horse back through the gate.
Surely if you play in any competition you play it to win it and not merely make up the numbers? Whether that be part of a determined plan over a number of seasons or whatever.
Your previous references to points systems is as close as anyone can get to the answer I believe. Personally I think clubs should focus on juniors and facilities. Points systems should reward this. If you have two overseas players or an import from Premier Cricket maybe the point system should be structured so your remaining players must be juniors or locals.
What’s the point of winning a flag if you’ve paid 8 blokes and picked a fella to fit the existing cap? Great reunion that would be in 10 years when they’ve all moved on to the next club...
 
DalesHack said:
Westy, I’m not a player in the VSDCA and wouldn’t presume to suggest what Moorabbin or Endeavour Hills should do.
I have played in the subbies, in the VTCA, DDCA and now CSB. I know some comps welcome the influx of Marquee players with the associated price tags, others seem at a loss as to how to get the horse back through the gate.
Surely if you play in any competition you play it to win it and not merely make up the numbers? Whether that be part of a determined plan over a number of seasons or whatever.
Your previous references to points systems is as close as anyone can get to the answer I believe. Personally I think clubs should focus on juniors and facilities. Points systems should reward this. If you have two overseas players or an import from Premier Cricket maybe the point system should be structured so your remaining players must be juniors or locals.
What’s the point of winning a flag if you’ve paid 8 blokes and picked a fella to fit the existing cap? Great reunion that would be in 10 years when they’ve all moved on to the next club...
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I now understand you were offering generalised opinions, that is, not specifically related to the subbies and thank you for clarifying this. I think we are pretty much on the same page when it comes to innovations and initiatives needed for the well-being of our game going forward.
 
dougie05 said:
1. This premier club in question will shell out $50k for Lawford, the club in question is backed by the same people that back the same football club and they have deep pockets and think throwing cash at players will help them go further.

2. Caulfield have the cash to pay Rummans and Thorne and any other player they want. They have plenty of cash hidden away that not many other people know about.

3. It's funny that you don't see players being paid that amount of money at either premier or subbies (suburban) level - Whilst cricket clubs don't get as much over the bar than a footy club, they do have people in high places that can and will assist.

4. Hastings would not be playing at Kew for the money, that is plain and simple - He would play there because of Kell and Weeks - The likelihood of him playing at Kew would be slim considering the points structure of VSDCA and the fact he lives near Hastings.

5. Yarraville Club shell out plenty of Coin. You think Will Sheridan went to them on next to nothing. No doubt he would be on $30k+ not to mention other players getting base wages and incentives on top of it.

6. Quiney will be getting paid no matter where he plays next year - It will be tied into a coaching role. - Thinking he wouldn't is silly.

7. I was told last year but a very reliable source that South Caulfield and 2 other teams within their comp have a budget close to $100k - $120k to spend on players.
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Dougie I accept that you are likely to be much closer to coalface than me on what players are paid. I come from more of a view of what they are worth. I still don't accept that $50K is realistic for local cricket.

Guessing the PC club throwing out cash to Lawford is Greenvale.
General comment is that PC players should be getting more. I liken the situation for most Premier players as amateurs being asked to prepare and play like pros, the time commitment is huge and it's a tough gig. 99% of them are paying subs!
My mail on Bobby is that he will have a year off and then go back to the Sharks. I would challenge anyone to show me an elite player better connected to his grass roots club. He might get offered money but I suspect he won't take it, ofcourse I could be wrong. If he wanted money he would go to Caulfield like Rummans or YCCC like Sheridan or East Sandy like Hodge or the DDCA like Spolly and Chasemore. I don't criticise Rummans and the like, if it is there then they have every right to take it.
Guessing one of the CSB clubs is Beauy.

I too like the points system and am comfortable with further tightening. I guess the risk for the likes of VSDCA, VTCA, CSB etc is that the talent looks elsewhere to leagues that are unrestricted.
 
Longonman1970 said:
Let's all calm down there will be Subbies next year but the futures of Moorabbin,Ormond,Elsternwick and Brighton remain unclear as there All struggling on the field atm.
If rumours are true Moorabbin and maybe Ormond could end up in CSB.
Mind you both clubs would have to start in Division 1 as there wouldn't beat the the top 6 Clubs in the Championship Division.
Hopefully these clubs mentioned can fire up and be competitive in subbies in all grades.
Click to expand...

You have suggested we all calm down, but your post has had the opposite effect on me for, other than Moorabbin and, perhaps EH, I did not believe other subbies clubs on the other side of town would have an uncertain future in the subbies.
I am not aware of any subbies club in the west being of any concern to the subbies in the immediate future which much explains my shock,(almost disbelief) that you have named additional subbies clubs in the Bayside region who are struggling. What on earth is going on over there? For goodness sake, its only on 10 August 2017 that Paul Amy reported Phil O'Meara's announcement of the subbies being keen to bring in 4 new clubs to bring the total to 32 thereby permitting the preferable fixture of 8v8 teams in each division.
 
westland said:
You have suggested we all calm down, but your post has had the opposite effect on me for, other than Moorabbin and, perhaps EH, I did not believe other subbies clubs on the other side of town would have an uncertain future in the subbies.
I am not aware of any subbies club in the west being of any concern to the subbies in the immediate future which much explains my shock,(almost disbelief) that you have named additional subbies clubs in the Bayside region who are struggling. What on earth is going on over there? For goodness sake, its only on 10 August 2017 that Paul Amy reported Phil O'Meara's announcement of the subbies being keen to bring in 4 new clubs to bring the total to 32 thereby permitting the preferable fixture of 8v8 teams in each division.
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Westy I don't agree with Long On's views. I'm sure Brightboy would have lost his brekky reading that Brighton are going under. Ormond are on the rebuild, half the Vic Metro U17 team is from Ormond so they may be a season or two off threatening but will be fine with a strong junior program. Don't know much about Elsternwick and Moorabbin's problems are on the record. Moorabbin say they want to play on in subbies so good luck to them. Some of these clubs may be banking their cash while Caulfield are unbeatable, I reckon Oakleigh certainly is.
 
westland said:
You have suggested we all calm down, but your post has had the opposite effect on me for, other than Moorabbin and, perhaps EH, I did not believe other subbies clubs on the other side of town would have an uncertain future in the subbies.
I am not aware of any subbies club in the west being of any concern to the subbies in the immediate future which much explains my shock,(almost disbelief) that you have named additional subbies clubs in the Bayside region who are struggling. What on earth is going on over there? For goodness sake, its only on 10 August 2017 that Paul Amy reported Phil O'Meara's announcement of the subbies being keen to bring in 4 new clubs to bring the total to 32 thereby permitting the preferable fixture of 8v8 teams in each division.
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Now who these 4 clubs be South Caulfield? Bentleigh?
Yarraville Club? Maybe a ECA club to go with that
 
Longonman1970 said:
Now who these 4 clubs be South Caulfield? Bentleigh?
Yarraville Club? Maybe a ECA club to go with that[/QUOTE

Any VTCA club considering relocating to the subbies is faced with the prospect of requiring their 3rd and 4th X1's to undertake across-town travel. That is not a decision to be taken lightly given these grades would not before have been required to do so. I am close enough to clubs in this region to know today's youth are not attracted to that prospect, and particularly if they have already played on Sat morning. I suggest it may also be a factor in attempting to interest CSB clubs to come on board.
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Well if Cricket Victoria cares about clubs that struggle on and off the field that play in Turf Associations in Victoria vote themselves out of business and bring in a AFL style commission to run the sport as there are to many people that only care for themselves and there own clubs.
The 1st thing where they should start is Premier Cricket get rid off 3rds and 4ths put those teams in Suburban Cricket Associations then streamline clubs by either telling to merge with other Premier clubs or play in Subbies then bring in the best of Subbies
EG:Caulfield,Oakleigh,Noble Park and Bayswater from the south and then teams from then North Subbies as for the rest of the subbies which then becomes the 2nd best competition behind Premier only have 1st and 2nds with the rest playing Suburban Compitition.
 
Ok,Allenkey,I'll have a crack at the team of the year,might be light years away but here goes,
Thorn-Caulfield
Love-Yarraville
Weeks-Kew
Rummans-Caulfield
McDonald-Williamstown Capt
Walker-Malvern
Perera-Noble Park
Hodges-Williamstown
Janoda-St Bernards
Jones-Melton
Pearson-Box Hill
A couple of these will be argued especially the W/K,Nightingale,Chamberlain,Damiano equally as good but you can only pick one,over to you boys.
 
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