Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
- Thread starter BigCricket
- Start date
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
We invent the game, yet are still poor at it. Simply put, this generation of players are too inflexible to really be a success in the shorter forms. Give it 5-10 years then I think we'll have a team which is able to win consistently in the shorter forms.
We invent the game, yet are still poor at it. Simply put, this generation of players are too inflexible to really be a success in the shorter forms. Give it 5-10 years then I think we'll have a team which is able to win consistently in the shorter forms.
King Pietersen
sC Player of the Month June '08
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
The reason we're still failing is because we're not picking the right players. The T20 side we put out should be:
Denly/Key
Bopara
Pietersen *
Shah
Flintoff
Mascheranhas
Foster +
Napier
Broad
Swann
Anderson/Bresnan
Whereas we're picking the wrong players. Strauss, Amjad, Collingwood, Batty, Davies, Prior, Bell, etc etc etc. Collingwood's the only one of those that could get a place in the side, but I still think there are better T20 players than him. England don't seem to have the balls to drop the players that aren't good enough for the format. Keeping this farsical "your best players are your best players" argument. We're never going to be a good ODi/T20 side if we are carrying Strauss as captain.
The reason we're still failing is because we're not picking the right players. The T20 side we put out should be:
Denly/Key
Bopara
Pietersen *
Shah
Flintoff
Mascheranhas
Foster +
Napier
Broad
Swann
Anderson/Bresnan
Whereas we're picking the wrong players. Strauss, Amjad, Collingwood, Batty, Davies, Prior, Bell, etc etc etc. Collingwood's the only one of those that could get a place in the side, but I still think there are better T20 players than him. England don't seem to have the balls to drop the players that aren't good enough for the format. Keeping this farsical "your best players are your best players" argument. We're never going to be a good ODi/T20 side if we are carrying Strauss as captain.
distributer of pain
Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
England are shit at all formats of the game, a very poor culture in the county ranks works its way through to the national team. allways has and allways will.
England are shit at all formats of the game, a very poor culture in the county ranks works its way through to the national team. allways has and allways will.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
I think that is harsh although there is some truth in what you say.
It's not so much the lack of talent, more how it's nutured and how it progresses through the levels. The county is not as bad as some imagine but the impacts of overseas, especially Kolpaks is questionable.
In a way, the county game mirrors the world game with the different bodies all looking out for number 1 no umbrella body with the power to have a final say. 18 counties are too many but for the moment traditionalists etc have their way, so they stay.
I think that is harsh although there is some truth in what you say.
It's not so much the lack of talent, more how it's nutured and how it progresses through the levels. The county is not as bad as some imagine but the impacts of overseas, especially Kolpaks is questionable.
In a way, the county game mirrors the world game with the different bodies all looking out for number 1 no umbrella body with the power to have a final say. 18 counties are too many but for the moment traditionalists etc have their way, so they stay.
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
Pretty much spot on. Strauss isn't a Twenty20 player, never has been, never will be. Bell falls into the same boat as well. Prior's keeping is complete crap.
Like what KP has said, England aren't picking the right players for the job. There are a couple of guys in there who aren't Twenty20 players and never will be but they are still picked because they are good ODI/Test players. Unfortunately that method won't work and it is costing England wins. The same could be said for the test side with a number of players perfoming below their best but still playing in the first eleven.
I saw Rob Key had a super Twenty20 season last year and is now captain of the England Lions, it might be about time to give him another go. Along with Shah he'd have to be one of the unluckier players going around. Seems to do everything right at county level but is constantly overlooked. Mascarenhas at six leaves the batting a bit scarce, what's Foster like as a batsman? I've heard he is more of an old-school keeper, excellent with the gloves but mediocre with the bat.
King Pietersen;337705 said:
Pretty much spot on. Strauss isn't a Twenty20 player, never has been, never will be. Bell falls into the same boat as well. Prior's keeping is complete crap.
Like what KP has said, England aren't picking the right players for the job. There are a couple of guys in there who aren't Twenty20 players and never will be but they are still picked because they are good ODI/Test players. Unfortunately that method won't work and it is costing England wins. The same could be said for the test side with a number of players perfoming below their best but still playing in the first eleven.
I saw Rob Key had a super Twenty20 season last year and is now captain of the England Lions, it might be about time to give him another go. Along with Shah he'd have to be one of the unluckier players going around. Seems to do everything right at county level but is constantly overlooked. Mascarenhas at six leaves the batting a bit scarce, what's Foster like as a batsman? I've heard he is more of an old-school keeper, excellent with the gloves but mediocre with the bat.
King Pietersen
sC Player of the Month June '08
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
Mascheranhas is more than useful as a lower order hitter. Foster would probably move down to 8 with Napier batting at 7, and he's capable of massive strikes. Hit 150 in a T20 last year! Foster's a very good OD batsman, very composed, has some extravagent shots. He's not going to average 40 in Test cricket, but he's a very useful OD batsman, and certainly a better option than Prior and Davies.
Mascheranhas is more than useful as a lower order hitter. Foster would probably move down to 8 with Napier batting at 7, and he's capable of massive strikes. Hit 150 in a T20 last year! Foster's a very good OD batsman, very composed, has some extravagent shots. He's not going to average 40 in Test cricket, but he's a very useful OD batsman, and certainly a better option than Prior and Davies.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
I agree with the team apart from Napier - reputation built on one innings (if we're being honest here) and his bowling is never going to trouble a decent batting line up.
I agree with the team apart from Napier - reputation built on one innings (if we're being honest here) and his bowling is never going to trouble a decent batting line up.
King Pietersen
sC Player of the Month June '08
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
I'm an Essex fan though, and have rated Napier even before that big innings. You say his bowling won't trouble a decent batting line-up, yet he's deadly accurate, consistently bowls at over 90mph, gets abit of movement in the air and off the seam, and he's been doing incredibly well with the ball in recent times. He had a very good season last year in the Championship, and is currently the MVP in the NZ State Season after putting in consistently fantastic performances with the ball, then you've also got his big hitting. I don't agree with people including him just for the 1 innings, but I'm picking him as a bowling all-rounder.
I'm an Essex fan though, and have rated Napier even before that big innings. You say his bowling won't trouble a decent batting line-up, yet he's deadly accurate, consistently bowls at over 90mph, gets abit of movement in the air and off the seam, and he's been doing incredibly well with the ball in recent times. He had a very good season last year in the Championship, and is currently the MVP in the NZ State Season after putting in consistently fantastic performances with the ball, then you've also got his big hitting. I don't agree with people including him just for the 1 innings, but I'm picking him as a bowling all-rounder.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
That's fair enough, I can't say I've seen enough of him to form a proper opinion but based on what I know he wouldn't make my XI. He'd be considered and no doubt in the top 20.
I'm still undecided as to what you really need for a successful twenty20 team. Yes, you need big hitters but I also feel there is a place for the more conventional player. As for bowlers, tough one. Spinners have had some success maybe more so than pace but by that logic there may well be a place for medium or even military mediums, providing they have enough variety and tricks.
The format of the game sort of drags me to include a few 'bits and pieces' type of player but I'm not sure that's a good thing. More thinking to do...
That's fair enough, I can't say I've seen enough of him to form a proper opinion but based on what I know he wouldn't make my XI. He'd be considered and no doubt in the top 20.
I'm still undecided as to what you really need for a successful twenty20 team. Yes, you need big hitters but I also feel there is a place for the more conventional player. As for bowlers, tough one. Spinners have had some success maybe more so than pace but by that logic there may well be a place for medium or even military mediums, providing they have enough variety and tricks.
The format of the game sort of drags me to include a few 'bits and pieces' type of player but I'm not sure that's a good thing. More thinking to do...
distributer of pain
Member
Re: Flower searches for Twenty20 solution
i think fielding is much more important in t/20 than any other form of the game, i know you arnt going to select a person on fielding alone but its a stat that needs to be considered when making a T/20 team in my opinion, a poor fielder can cost you plenty in this game, and a good fielder whether he be in the ring or on the rope can save many runs and make things happen under pressure. my model for a T/20 player is someone whos athletic in the field with good hands, a good hitter(good eye) good runner between wickets and can bowl tight lines with good variations. i dont think theres room for more than 3/4 specialist batsmen in any one team, and probably 2 specialist bowlers, maybe 3 if you play a spinner.
i think fielding is much more important in t/20 than any other form of the game, i know you arnt going to select a person on fielding alone but its a stat that needs to be considered when making a T/20 team in my opinion, a poor fielder can cost you plenty in this game, and a good fielder whether he be in the ring or on the rope can save many runs and make things happen under pressure. my model for a T/20 player is someone whos athletic in the field with good hands, a good hitter(good eye) good runner between wickets and can bowl tight lines with good variations. i dont think theres room for more than 3/4 specialist batsmen in any one team, and probably 2 specialist bowlers, maybe 3 if you play a spinner.