Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

Yeah I'm with you Tony on that - one's 11 and the other is 8. I've learnt that they're inclined to take very little notice of me and the last thing I should do is show any frustration. Taking that approach the 11 year old for instance is slowling getting more into his passion for the game and realising himself that practice = wickets, the penny just needs to drop that practice = staying at the crease when he bats!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

On the original subject of tips try this drill - YouTube - Leg Break Bowling.avi if you've not got the stumps for it just put something in the way. Place a target - I use an old car mat that's been cut down and try and put the ball on that or somewhere near it.

 

[strof]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

How did it go? My lads did well in their U11 game with their bowling I haven't had time yet to blog it yet,

bit late in replying but young strof(conor) made his leg spin debut on sunday didnt take a wicket on sunday for his u13 team but he had the batsmen in a bit of trouble when he pitched it right and he was able to get a bit of bounce and some spin.
he also bowled again last night for the u15s where when he got it right he looked useful but a couple of full tosses were dispatched to the boundary. he was getting some spin and no wides!! took a nice caught and bowled ,where a guy top edged a sweep shot . now he has made that step of actually bowling it in a match hopefully it will spur him on.
definitely a confidence thing with him as he tends not to bowl leg spin against what he perceives as better batsmen/teams.
when he gets time and he is not playing cricket i will try and encourage him to come on here and discuss some technical issues

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

bit late in replying but young strof(conor) made his leg spin debut on sunday didnt take a wicket on sunday for his u13 team but he had the batsmen in a bit of trouble when he pitched it right and he was able to get a bit of bounce and some spin.
he also bowled again last night for the u15s where when he got it right he looked useful but a couple of full tosses were dispatched to the boundary. he was getting some spin and no wides!! took a nice caught and bowled ,where a guy top edged a sweep shot . now he has made that step of actually bowling it in a match hopefully it will spur him on.
definitely a confidence thing with him as he tends not to bowl leg spin against what he perceives as better batsmen/teams.
when he gets time and he is not playing cricket i will try and encourage him to come on here and discuss some technical issues

the better the batsman, the straighter they generally look to play, and in fact the easier they are to get out! you just have to pitch it up under their noses and let them get themselves in trouble. its hard to play shots off a fuller delivery, so only the ones with excellent footwork can do it. and its all too easy to get themselves stumped if they get too aggressive.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

I've got another thing going at the minute as I'm finding that I'm having problems bowling and ignoring the stumps or the batsman and bowling to them rather than a target. I figured that when the stumps are in place I was ignoring where the ball landed and as long as it hit the stumps or turned big I was happy. Whereas at the minute I'm of the opinion that I need to be able to bowl to variable lenghts and areas as and when required. So if some big bloke takes up his guard right on the crease and has a reach of massive proportions I need then to bowl in accordance to his height, reach and position on the crease? Then when I discover he's crap on his legs vary the position to bowl legside rather than my usual off-side approach looking for the edge of the bat.

So now what I do is have a 12"x12" rubber car mat and move that around when I'm bowling trying to get the ball on that where-ever it is and make it turn. I've found that I got so robotic and mechanical with my bowling on the off-stump to average sized blokes that I then became psychologically disadvantaged when faced with other situations (Especially Lefties). This is a new development and something that is 'Work in progress' but at the minute it does seem to make sense and strikes me that if I get it sussed it will give me a lot more potential and depth - what do you reckon?

 

[TonyM]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

There is a bit more on 'target bowling' here (with credit to mas):
Practising Spin Bowling Part 1: Crictips.com – cricket coaching, advice and tips

Personally I always like my bowlers to try and bowl to a target first as I think it would encourage what you are trying to do retrospectively (be in control of your line and length independent of the batsman) but I do accept some are influenced by a batsmans presence. Fundamentally I try to coach batting and fielding as 'reactive' disciplines where you have to prepare for anothers action whereas bowling is a 'proactive' discipline where the bowler is the party in control (OK the batsman may play a good shot but I encourage my bowlers to take a measured view on this - if they bowl 'good' balls they can do no more and its up to a 'good' batsman to worry about what happens at the other end)

 

[strof]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

the better the batsman, the straighter they generally look to play, and in fact the easier they are to get out! you just have to pitch it up under their noses and let them get themselves in trouble. its hard to play shots off a fuller delivery, so only the ones with excellent footwork can do it. and its all too easy to get themselves stumped if they get too aggressive.

have nt posted for a while. my son (young strof) is still trying to bowl his leg spin. spin and variations especially top spinner and leg break. but consistent accuracy is still not there. he bowled a couple of overs at an under 18 match where he beat the bat 4 times and it looked pretty good
u 15 game on monday was pretty bad full tosses at chest and waist height and he was took off after one over. i have told him to keep trying as it takes time but his coach is trying to persuade him to just bowl straight without imparting any leg spin.

interesting the points about bowling to a batsman as in practice he just practices target bowling. maybe a batsman may be a better idea.

 

[macca]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

interesting the points about bowling to a batsman as in practice he just practices target bowling. maybe a batsman may be a better idea.

You have to spend lots of hours bowling to batsmen as well as targets. I like to get a bit of both each session. Getting someone to bat lefthanded is also a good idea.

He is overpitching but thats generally better than underpitching. If you check him out side-on and from a little distance is he getting much drop or dip from overspin?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

have nt posted for a while. my son (young strof) is still trying to bowl his leg spin. spin and variations especially top spinner and leg break. but consistent accuracy is still not there. he bowled a couple of overs at an under 18 match where he beat the bat 4 times and it looked pretty good
u 15 game on monday was pretty bad full tosses at chest and waist height and he was took off after one over. i have told him to keep trying as it takes time but his coach is trying to persuade him to just bowl straight without imparting any leg spin.

interesting the points about bowling to a batsman as in practice he just practices target bowling. maybe a batsman may be a better idea.

I think the target approach is potentially better, but you have to move the target around and be able to vary your line and length with ease and confidence. My assumption is, if you master that aspect of your bowling (assuming you're getting the ball to turn as well) you can then put the ball into areas of your choice which then cause the batsman problems, whereas till now getting the ball on the off-stump with a varying length and flight has been my modus operandi. But that hasn't seemed to have worked this year seemingly far better batsmen. A key skill is being able to read the batmans own approach and identify where he has weaknesses and be able to exploit that by putting the ball exactly where you want it hence the reason I'm currently advocating the moving mat approach and scrapping the idea of practicing with stumps or a batsman in place.

 

[strof]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

You have to spend lots of hours bowling to batsmen as well as targets. I like to get a bit of both each session. Getting someone to bat lefthanded is also a good idea.

He is overpitching but thats generally better than underpitching. If you check him out side-on and from a little distance is he getting much drop or dip from overspin?

cheers macca. i will take a look. he was on the verge of jacking in the leg spin in ,and he was bowling off spin in the nets with me for a couple of overs tonight . he bowled a few decent off breaks but again accuracy was erratic, which makes me wonder if there is something fundamental wrong such as his head position or something.

. i said to him it would be a shame to pack it in as he has made progress and can bowl the topspinner, leg break and googly.
he went back to leggies and bowled 3 decent deliveries hitting the one stump once.and then another skier came down for the fourth one.
its like you blokes have always said on here it takes a hell of a lot of practice. he plays sometimes 5 days/times a week and he is primarily an opening batsman so limited time to practice.
one thing he did mention was the size of the ball. he found it easier to bowl with the adult ball as against the smaller ball used in u13 cricket.which i would have thought would have been the other way around.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

practicing without a batsman is very important for technique practice, because you need to be able to focus on what you are doing without any distractions. in that situation you just set yourself a target (personally i use a skipping rope looped into a circle covering from just outside off stump to about a foot outside leg stump, between 3-4.5 yards in length) and then look to land the ball anywhere in the target area. but your primary concern is with technique, so youre focussing mostly on that. im generally not too bothered if i miss the target area when working on my technique, all im trying to acheive is consistency, then once ive found that i try to home in on the target. accuracy comes with practice, but the raw technique is more important, and being able to repeat it every delivery is crucial. without that youll never be consistent, and accuracy is probably the last piece of the puzzle to fall into place.

practicing against a batsman is match practice. technique practice isnt especially helpful in that regard. its like being a sniper who can shoot a penny from a mile away 10 times out of 10 in practice. but then you get thrown into a warzone and you cant even hit it from 100 yards. all the technique practice is useless if you cant replicate it with a real target (e.g. a batsman in our case). and it isnt just as simple as pressure, because batsmen are a moving target, so its not even a case of being under more pressure with a batsman in front of you, youve just got to be better than you need to be when bowling at static targets. and the only way to truly replicate that is in a match situation, but net practice against a batsman is 2nd best.

with regards moving targets around whilst bowling, that is probably the halfway house between the 2 methods. youre moving the target and thus improving your ability to adjust your bowling. this will then allow you, in theory, to do that in a match situation depending on where you decide the batsmans weaknesses are. however this relies on you being able to hit the targets. if you keep moving the target around, but you only hit it once in 20 attempts, then you might as well have left it still, because otherwise its not helping anyway. with a batsman there you have an added motivation and focus, and also you realise that hitting a 6" square, whilst it is great if you can do it with 95% accuracy, isnt essential provided you have the core strengths of a leg spinner. simply spinning the ball hard and landing it somewhere close will cause most batsmen problems. but length is critical.

as for your kids coach discouraging him from bowling leg spin, i think that is wrong on so many levels. personally id have a word with him, and tell him to encourage your son in whatever he wants to do, and if he wants to bowl leg spin then leave him to it. nothing angers me more than a captain coming over to you and saying "i know youre a leggie and its hard, but can you just bowl straight because we cant afford the runs". nothing gets me spinning the ball harder next delivery though!!!

 

[strof]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

practicing without a batsman is very important for technique practice, because you need to be able to focus on what you are doing without any distractions. in that situation you just set yourself a target (personally i use a skipping rope looped into a circle covering from just outside off stump to about a foot outside leg stump, between 3-4.5 yards in length) and then look to land the ball anywhere in the target area. but your primary concern is with technique, so youre focussing mostly on that. im generally not too bothered if i miss the target area when working on my technique, all im trying to acheive is consistency, then once ive found that i try to home in on the target. accuracy comes with practice, but the raw technique is more important, and being able to repeat it every delivery is crucial. without that youll never be consistent, and accuracy is probably the last piece of the puzzle to fall into place.

practicing against a batsman is match practice. technique practice isnt especially helpful in that regard. its like being a sniper who can shoot a penny from a mile away 10 times out of 10 in practice. but then you get thrown into a warzone and you cant even hit it from 100 yards. all the technique practice is useless if you cant replicate it with a real target (e.g. a batsman in our case). and it isnt just as simple as pressure, because batsmen are a moving target, so its not even a case of being under more pressure with a batsman in front of you, youve just got to be better than you need to be when bowling at static targets. and the only way to truly replicate that is in a match situation, but net practice against a batsman is 2nd best.

with regards moving targets around whilst bowling, that is probably the halfway house between the 2 methods. youre moving the target and thus improving your ability to adjust your bowling. this will then allow you, in theory, to do that in a match situation depending on where you decide the batsmans weaknesses are. however this relies on you being able to hit the targets. if you keep moving the target around, but you only hit it once in 20 attempts, then you might as well have left it still, because otherwise its not helping anyway. with a batsman there you have an added motivation and focus, and also you realise that hitting a 6" square, whilst it is great if you can do it with 95% accuracy, isnt essential provided you have the core strengths of a leg spinner. simply spinning the ball hard and landing it somewhere close will cause most batsmen problems. but length is critical.

as for your kids coach discouraging him from bowling leg spin, i think that is wrong on so many levels. personally id have a word with him, and tell him to encourage your son in whatever he wants to do, and if he wants to bowl leg spin then leave him to it. nothing angers me more than a captain coming over to you and saying "i know youre a leggie and its hard, but can you just bowl straight because we cant afford the runs". nothing gets me spinning the ball harder next delivery though!!!

hi guys
just an update on my son conor aged 14 he is still practising his leg spin and he is getting good turn and bounce accuracy is still not great with almost all the balls veering down the off side mostly wides- could this be his head position? i have got him walking in and just bowling but the result is the same. he therefore is still not happy to bowl it in a match

as he his an opening batsmen his main focus tends to be his batting and the leg spin always tends to be tacked on to the end of a net session where he is either knackered or frustration takes hold . it seems a shame as i think he could make a success at it if he practiced more and he could maybe overcome the accuracy problem

 

[macca]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

hi guys
just an update on my son conor aged 14 he is still practising his leg spin and he is getting good turn and bounce accuracy is still not great with almost all the balls veering down the off side mostly wides- could this be his head position? i have got him walking in and just bowling but the result is the same. he therefore is still not happy to bowl it in a match

as he his an opening batsmen his main focus tends to be his batting and the leg spin always tends to be tacked on to the end of a net session where he is either knackered or frustration takes hold . it seems a shame as i think he could make a success at it if he practiced more and he could maybe overcome the accuracy problem

Could be head position, does he get side on enough? An off stump and wider than off stump line to righthanders is a good place for young beginners so he only needs to come over a bit. But he will have to be able to bowl outside left handers off stump as well.

At his stage of development he has to be aiming to land it on an imaginary mid stump to mid stump line. "aiming" being the operative word because he wont hit it much, at first. This gives the best chance of making the batsmen play and the widest margin of error for wides on both sides. You can chalk or tape it at first or every so often as a guide and a target.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

cheers macca. i will take a look. he was on the verge of jacking in the leg spin in ,and he was bowling off spin in the nets with me for a couple of overs tonight . he bowled a few decent off breaks but again accuracy was erratic, which makes me wonder if there is something fundamental wrong such as his head position or something.

. i said to him it would be a shame to pack it in as he has made progress and can bowl the topspinner, leg break and googly.
he went back to leggies and bowled 3 decent deliveries hitting the one stump once.and then another skier came down for the fourth one.
its like you blokes have always said on here it takes a hell of a lot of practice. he plays sometimes 5 days/times a week and he is primarily an opening batsman so limited time to practice.
one thing he did mention was the size of the ball. he found it easier to bowl with the adult ball as against the smaller ball used in u13 cricket.which i would have thought would have been the other way around.

I think it's a big ask of kids these days to commit themselves to one thing or another and wrist spinning is a massive ask I reckon, unless you're one of those kids that just picks the ball up and it turns big every time without any hassle. Kids these days have an abundancy of other things that occupy them and they all come relatively easy and everyone around them knows how to do it and they all teach each other (You know where I'm coming from with this). Whereas Wrist Spinning you're more than likely doing it on your own with little or no support and some years (As in my case with this year) you just bowl pants. Gone are the days of prior to the 1950's when children were children and had virtually nothing to do and therefore could commit themsleves to bowling a ball again and again for hours and hours because there was nothing else to do.

All you can do is encourage him and hope that he sees the light or just bowls a killer ball which re-ignites his passion.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

I think it's a big ask of kids these days to commit themselves to one thing or another and wrist spinning is a massive ask I reckon, unless you're one of those kids that just picks the ball up and it turns big every time without any hassle. Kids these days have an abundancy of other things that occupy them and they all come relatively easy and everyone around them knows how to do it and they all teach each other (You know where I'm coming from with this). Whereas Wrist Spinning you're more than likely doing it on your own with little or no support and some years (As in my case with this year) you just bowl pants. Gone are the days of prior to the 1950's when children were children and had virtually nothing to do and therefore could commit themsleves to bowling a ball again and again for hours and hours because there was nothing else to do.

All you can do is encourage him and hope that he sees the light or just bowls a killer ball which re-ignites his passion.

its a good point regards kids sticking at something. however i think that if you look at most of the young leggies in county cricket, they didnt start out as leg spinners. they were good all round cricketers that made the academy, and then picked up leg spin in the mid to late teens.

i think if kids are aware of leg spin and bowl it sporadically in their early to mid teens, then those who develop an interest as the mature will stick to it more rigidly as they get into their later teens, and then by your early 20's you need to be finding some solidity in your action. the experts say it takes 5 years to learn the art, so a kid starting out at 15 would expect to be showing promise by 17-18, which is plenty soon enough to make it in pro cricket if youre a solid all round cricketer (which most good youngsters are now).

the important thing is that kids that are interested can receive a bit of coaching, try their hand at bowling leg spin, and hopefully theyll adopt it properly once they grow up a bit and realise the significance of it. as a youngster you just want to have a go at a bit of everything.

i might be doing a bit of coaching next season for the kids teams at my club, theyre trying to rope people into giving up some time for it. im up for it, i think it would be good to learn coaching and get some experience, and probably get some qualifications as well. it could prove useful in years to come. and there will be an army of 12 year old leg spinners by the time im finished

 

[TonyM]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

...
i might be doing a bit of coaching next season for the kids teams at my club, theyre trying to rope people into giving up some time for it. im up for it, i think it would be good to learn coaching and get some experience, and probably get some qualifications as well. it could prove useful in years to come. and there will be an army of 12 year old leg spinners by the time im finished

Best of luck with that, I have found coaching a very rewarding (and frustrating at times) experience. The big problem with coaching is that much of it tends to be in a group environment which doesnt always help leggies as once you get past the fundamentals of the bowling action their path tends to diverge from the rest of the bowlers. Obviously the more people/coaches you have involved at the club the more specialised the sessions can be but as I say that isnt always possible.

If you have been asked by a qualified coach you could always ask to borrow his copy of Wings to Fly no 3 dvd (see separate thread on here), just to see what sort of resources are available and there is a section on leggies which might give some help as to what to look for in your lads action although I would hope an individual session with a coach would give you that anyway - I have a leggie at my club and have done a 1to1 with him and his dad and pointed out what they can work with on their own away from the club

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Has anybody got any tips on accuracy for leg spinners?

Yeah I've been asked if I want to do coaching courses come this Sept, not sure about it and whether I can commit to it or whether I can deal with all the politics within club scenarios.