Hey, Leggies!

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Boris

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Hey, Leggies!

I'm sure most of you will know I'm an off spinner, and I know my way around offies as well as you famous BC Leggies know your wrist spin.

I bowl my off spin with a lot of wrist. My stock ball is nothing like a classic off spin in terms of grip and delivery action, but it works quite well. My grip is a little leg spin like and I use a big wrist flick outwards to get a lot of revs on the ball that is also characteristic to the leg spin wrist flick.

I have a top spinner, back spinner, arm ball and the starting of a doosra (straightens but not quite turns away), plus some variations of each of them, so pretty much everything possible from an off spinner. I get a lot of turn on my stock ball, equal to that of a smallish turning leg spinner. I also get a lot of wickets and trouble batsmen often. I'm not the 'normal' off spinner, the spinner that isn't good enough for leg spin so they turn to their only option left after not being able to bowl pace, I chose off spin because it's what I like best.

Now the little background information is done, my elongated question begins:

In the nets I quite often bowl down a leg spinner every so often just because I can. Funnily enough they aren't too bad considering I have no idea what I'm doing. I can get quite a lot of turn and enough accuracy to surprise myself.

Going on the few balls I have tried I reckon I could learn a bit and turn into a decent part timer at the least.

My off spin has hit a wall now, I don't think I can really improve on it (other than the usual accuracy and such), it just seems boring and I'm either put on for a couple of overs to get an elusive wicket or to tie down one end, not as a main attack weapon. The usual off spinner deal.

Just wondering if you guys could teach me the basics of leg spin for the beginner. The grips, the action and personal experience on what does and doesn't work (otherwise I might as well look it up on the internet myself, but I prefer to have actual input).

I have also been inspired by Ajantha Mendis with his variety, he uses finger and wrist spin for all sorts of deliveries, I wouldn't mind chucking down some leggie deliveries every now and then.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Hey Boris, if you want to take up legspin the first thing is you have to divorce offspin.

Let's make it official, hold a copy of the Bible ("Taking Wickets" by Grimmett) in your right hand and say after me " I, Boris, do hereby swear to forsake the false and evil craft of offbreaking and from this time forward I will only follow the true art of bowling; Legspin, so help me Warne, Amen"
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

macca;400024 said:
Hey Boris, if you want to take up legspin the first thing is you have to divorce offspin.

Let's make it official, hold a copy of the Bible ("Taking Wickets" by Grimmett) in your right hand and say after me " I, Boris, do hereby swear to forsake the false and evil craft of offbreaking and from this time forward I will only follow the true art of bowling; Legspin, so help me Warne, Amen"
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Genius! This is endorsed by the Union of Wrist-Spinners.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

But how could I give up something that has brought me such success?!

I don't even know if it's worth trying that other form yet. So far I have been a better spinner than every legspinner I have met, so I don't want to throw it away just like that.

And what's wrong with a bit of both?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

i think they were joking. theres certainly nothing wrong with bowling a bit of everything, but typically youll find more success with leg spin if you commit to it 100%, purely from a practice perspective. it takes a LOT of practice to grasp leg spin, and if you dilute that practice time with off spin and/or pace bowling then its just less time dedicated to leg spin.

so far as technique and method go, the first thing to do is watch Shane Warne for hours on end. watch the Terry Jenner videos, also the Shane Warne masterclass videos. most of them are on YouTube. the Cloverfield coaching video is good, as is the David Freeman video.

start out just spinning the ball between your hands, figure out your natural leg spin grip, and then just keep ripping it until you generate good revs and a clean seam position 99% of the time.

once youre comfortable with the grip and spinning the ball then get to bowling it outside. underarm can be useful to begin with as you can fully see your hand and understand what is happening. then move up to overarm. some people go roundarm first, but personally i found that didnt help.

then from there you just have to address your own specific issues. are you predominantly a front-on bowler, or a side-on bowler? whichever you are with off spin and pace, youre probably best off embracing that with leg spin. so if youre a front-on bowler dont try to get too side-on or youll just end up with injuries. its better to observe these practices earlier rather than later, because once you develop a habit its hard to adjust it. e.g. i am a front-on bowler that tries to get side-on, and i had been bowling like that for ages before i realised the problem. now i cant move away from it, and i get recurring lower leg pain.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

SteveyD;400068 said:
I thought Philpott was the bible?
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Grimmett is the old Testament, everything Philpott wrote Grimmett had written back in 1930. Grimmett invented all of the Flipper variations by 1930 and had spent 8 years or more experimenting with the 4 variants concluding finally that the (Now obscure) Top-Spinning flipper was the better of the 4 deliveries. Philpotts book although brilliant doesn't have the same level of depth that Grimmetts does, Grimmett was a cricket genius.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Anyone for Dibbly Dobbly bowling?

Boris, I think it's got to come from within, it's got to be a passion and an obsession and without that kind of obsessiveness you're unlikely to become a Wrist Spinner. You might be lucky in that you naturally bowl a good leg break and many people can, I've seen loads of fast bowlers throw a ball back to me and make it break exceptionally well. But to then want to be able to do this and land it on a consistent line and length you're taking it to another level and you'll need a different kind of commitment and then to start looking at the variations takes another level. It may be that once you start looking into it more seriously and exploring the potential you'll go one way or the other and you may find that the force will be with. But to undertand and use the force, you must commit fully, but the dark-side will always be there lurking tempting you to take the easy route.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400053 said:
But how could I give up something that has brought me such success?!

I don't even know if it's worth trying that other form yet. So far I have been a better spinner than every legspinner I have met, so I don't want to throw it away just like that.

And what's wrong with a bit of both?
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Nothing wrong with a bit of both but you cant serve two masters. But you just want to dabble a bit dont you Boris?, so thats fair enough. It could help your batting against legspin.

There is some common ground for legspinners and offspinners in the finger clicking flipper that grimmett pioneered.

Two of the deliveries in particular are more suited to the offspinner than the legspinner. One is a doosra. What sort of doosra are you mucking around with?

Can you bowl a warne style flipper? If you can, then you could possibly bowl the other "flippers". That would give you the mendis like bag of tricks you talked about at the top.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris - what do you want to start with? I would recommend getting you Leg Break working - I take it you're right arm and that you've got a good Finger Spin Off-Break, so if you were to get the Leg Break working they'd obviously compliment each other?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

So many things to reply to, so little time. I will start with these.

macca;400094 said:
Two of the deliveries in particular are more suited to the offspinner than the legspinner. One is a doosra. What sort of doosra are you mucking around with?[/QUOTE

My doosra is an extension of the top spinner. My top spinner comes out of the top of the hand, seam up and down as is the orthodox way. My doosra involves me pivoting further and releasing the ball slightly later, with a more oval shaped delivery action. This means I can twist my wrist as far around as possible and release what is effectively a top spinner with the seam pointing to first slip (for RH batsman). I'm working on how late I release the ball compared to my pivot, gotta optimise both in time to get maximum spin.

macca;400094 said:
Can you bowl a warne style flipper? If you can, then you could possibly bowl the other "flippers". That would give you the mendis like bag of tricks you talked about at the top.
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I barely even know what a flipper is, let alone be able to bowl one, so no is the answer!

And as for improving my batting as you say, I find leggies easier to face as I double guess myself with offies, that being my trade. I find the ball spinning back in harder, but that's just me.
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Re: Hey, Leggies!

someblokecalleddave;400098 said:
Boris - what do you want to start with? I would recommend getting you Leg Break working - I take it you're right arm and that you've got a good Finger Spin Off-Break, so if you were to get the Leg Break working they'd obviously compliment each other?
Click to expand...

I've got a very good off break, as I said it spins just as much as the average leg spin bowler I have seen around the place, always been my strength.

As said above, I have the startings of my doosra, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, and working on accuracy. But seriously, how many club batsmen watch the ball out of the hand? I bowl random pace balls in the middle of my off spin over from the same run up and they don't notice, so I'm thinking leggies are going to work even better!

Answering another from back a bit:
I mostly just want a good legbreak and slider/flipper and whatever you guys suggest without me needing to practice every day on them, I want them as variation balls.
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400110 said:
I've got a very good off break, as I said it spins just as much as the average leg spin bowler I have seen around the place, always been my strength.

As said above, I have the startings of my doosra, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, and working on accuracy. But seriously, how many club batsmen watch the ball out of the hand? I bowl random pace balls in the middle of my off spin over from the same run up and they don't notice, so I'm thinking leggies are going to work even better!

Answering another from back a bit:
I mostly just want a good legbreak and slider/flipper and whatever you guys suggest without me needing to practice every day on them, I want them as variation balls.
Click to expand...

Work on the Leg-Break and the Flipper - that'll be my advice, but primarily the Leg-Break - as that'll be the one that gets you the wickets especially if you mix it with your off-break. Hopefully if you bowl the Leg-Break and get it working with some accuracy you might see the light at the end of the tunnel and we may even convert you?

So what do you want to know - about the Leg Break?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

someblokecalleddave;400131 said:
Work on the Leg-Break and the Flipper - that'll be my advice, but primarily the Leg-Break - as that'll be the one that gets you the wickets especially if you mix it with your off-break. Hopefully if you bowl the Leg-Break and get it working with some accuracy you might see the light at the end of the tunnel and we may even convert you?

So what do you want to know - about the Leg Break?
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I will leave myself open for conversion... but like the variety for now. Off spin has brought me a lot of pleasures.

There are a lot of sites out there that offer advice about the Leg Break, and it's hard to know what's what.

I am starting from the start, so pretty much the basics to the more complex of it, the grip is probably the most logical thing to start with.

Perhaps some of your favourite links that you have posted here and there?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400181 said:
I will leave myself open for conversion... but like the variety for now. Off spin has brought me a lot of pleasures.

There are a lot of sites out there that offer advice about the Leg Break, and it's hard to know what's what.

I am starting from the start, so pretty much the basics to the more complex of it, the grip is probably the most logical thing to start with.

Perhaps some of your favourite links that you have posted here and there?
Click to expand...

Have a look at these two - ignore for the first year or two all the stuff about variations just look at what Warne in the first video says about the grip. The grip eventually becomes personal to you and there's no right way or wrong way just as long as that ring finger is on the seam in some way. Basically it's 2 up 2 down with the 3rd finger on the seam. I vary the way I bowl the Leg-Break and some times I bowl with the ball high in the fingers or low and cupped in the hand very loosely - the low, cupped and loose approach means the ball is launched off the ring finger and imparts loads of spin.

YouTube - Shane Warne
YouTube - Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass Spin Bowling tips 1
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

someblokecalleddave;400183 said:
Have a look at these two - ignore for the first year or two all the stuff about variations just look at what Warne in the first video says about the grip. The grip eventually becomes personal to you and there's no right way or wrong way just as long as that ring finger is on the seam in some way. Basically it's 2 up 2 down with the 3rd finger on the seam. I vary the way I bowl the Leg-Break and some times I bowl with the ball high in the fingers or low and cupped in the hand very loosely - the low, cupped and loose approach means the ball is launched off the ring finger and imparts loads of spin.

YouTube - Shane Warne
YouTube - Cloverdale Cricket Masterclass Spin Bowling tips 1
Click to expand...

Thanks for those.

With the leg break, are you still 'opening the door knob'? The way I have bowled in the past very roughly has been quite different. To explain my delivery I start with my wrist as far down as it goes, as if I were trying to touch the bottom of my forearm with my fingers. Then I snap it right back so my wrist goes from right angle to opposing right angle. This means the ball is spinning across the seam and getting a bucket load of spin, although the accuracy is quite wayward and top spin is nil.

Which leads me to another question. With the conventional off break you want a little bit of top spin on everything, to cause the dip, then turn. Is this wanted for a leg break or do you just impart straight side spin on the ball?
 
Re: Hey, Leggies!

Boris;400310 said:
Which leads me to another question. With the conventional off break you want a little bit of top spin on everything, to cause the dip, then turn. Is this wanted for a leg break or do you just impart straight side spin on the ball?
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In my opinion (probs wrong), Generally you want to keep the ball upright as much as possible to hit the sam and get the most "grip" on the break.
Dip is too complicated for me ;)
 
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