How Valuable Is Your Wicket?

[CancelledUser2014]

As a number 11 batsman I'm always told to block the ball and get singles so the better batsman can get on strike. So if I get a half volley wide of off stump with a bunch of fielders waiting in the covers, I leave the ball. If I get a leg stump yorker, I block it. Simple as that. But what if the other batsman has much lesser skill than me or is under so much pressure that he'll throw his wicket away? Do I ignore the comments of my fellow teammates and hog the strike until my partner is calm? Do I go for the big shots and look to make runs? If I try to attack I often lose my wicket early, so should I place more value on my wicket, (bat defensively and rotate the strike) or more value on my partners wicket? (Keep the strike and the runs flowing so he can calm down and retake his position as the attacking batsman)

 

[SLA]

As a number 11 batsman I'm always told to block the ball and get singles so the better batsman can get on strike. So if I get a half volley wide of off stump with a bunch of fielders waiting in the covers, I leave the ball. If I get a leg stump yorker, I block it. Simple as that. But what if the other batsman has much lesser skill than me or is under so much pressure that he'll throw his wicket away? Do I ignore the comments of my fellow teammates and hog the strike until my partner is calm? Do I go for the big shots and look to make runs? If I try to attack I often lose my wicket early, so should I place more value on my wicket, (bat defensively and rotate the strike) or more value on my partners wicket? (Keep the strike and the runs flowing so he can calm down and retake his position as the attacking batsman)

If its a close game, best to follow your captain's instructions. If its not, then it doesn't really matter so bat in the way that you think will be you the best practice for the future.

 

[TrunkMunkie]

As a number 11 batsman I'm always told to block the ball and get singles so the better batsman can get on strike. So if I get a half volley wide of off stump with a bunch of fielders waiting in the covers, I leave the ball. If I get a leg stump yorker, I block it. Simple as that. But what if the other batsman has much lesser skill than me or is under so much pressure that he'll throw his wicket away? Do I ignore the comments of my fellow teammates and hog the strike until my partner is calm? Do I go for the big shots and look to make runs? If I try to attack I often lose my wicket early, so should I place more value on my wicket, (bat defensively and rotate the strike) or more value on my partners wicket? (Keep the strike and the runs flowing so he can calm down and retake his position as the attacking batsman)

If you're a no 11 batsman, fair chance that the bloke at the other end is probably better equipped to be hitting the runs. Just hang around and if you're in for a while and feel like you're seeing it well enough, maybe then have a crack at the occasional bad ball

 

[CancelledUser2014]

If you're a no 11 batsman, fair chance that the bloke at the other end is probably better equipped to be hitting the runs. Just hang around and if you're in for a while and feel like you're seeing it well enough, maybe then have a crack at the occasional bad ball

The reason that I'm a no 11 batsman is not because I don't have the ability to make runs and make them regularly. I play for an adult club and I'm a 14 year old, the rest of the players are 17-40. The opposition has bowlers that bowl up to 135kph. And I'm one of the most valuable spin bowlers in the team. So its better for me to bat at no 11 even if I can bat lower in the order. I can have a crack at the regular good ball if I want to! That just isn't my style, and the captain always wants me to defend because he knows I can block for 50 overs if I want to. We usually lose the toss and bowl first, by the time I come in we need to put runs on the board and if my partner isn't coping, I want to give him some support. It's either defend, bat through the overs and don't make it to the target, or take your chances and go for big shots so you have a chance of winning, but also a chance to lose badly.

 

[micoach]

Number 11 is a pretty simple position to bat. There are only 3 situations:

1. Batting for a draw
2. Holding on while the other guy gets some runs
3. Hitting out to win the game

Or as I was once told, you either need to block the last ball or hit it for four!

All of those are different skills but with a good defence you can do a job with 1 and 2. To be better at 2 you need to have at least 1 shot that allows you to rotate the strike. That's not too difficult as you can work on something simple like a pull, a flick off the legs or a drive. You can probably develop a couple of bankers with little effort.

3 is tough, you need to have at least 1 shot you can hit for a boundary, and chances are the bowlers are not keen to comply by giving you the right ball. That said, the basics of batting still apply: watch the ball, keep your head still, select the right shot and lead with your shoulder/hands. The main thing is to enjoy it, you are probably not expected to win the match so you have little to lose in going for it.

I wrote more about the art of tail end batting here: http://www.pitchvision.com/tail-end-batting

 

[CancelledUser2014]

Number 11 is a pretty simple position to bat. There are only 3 situations:

1. Batting for a draw
2. Holding on while the other guy gets some runs
3. Hitting out to win the game

Or as I was once told, you either need to block the last ball or hit it for four!

All of those are different skills but with a good defence you can do a job with 1 and 2. To be better at 2 you need to have at least 1 shot that allows you to rotate the strike. That's not too difficult as you can work on something simple like a pull, a flick off the legs or a drive. You can probably develop a couple of bankers with little effort.

3 is tough, you need to have at least 1 shot you can hit for a boundary, and chances are the bowlers are not keen to comply by giving you the right ball. That said, the basics of batting still apply: watch the ball, keep your head still, select the right shot and lead with your shoulder/hands. The main thing is to enjoy it, you are probably not expected to win the match so you have little to lose in going for it.

I wrote more about the art of tail end batting here: http://www.pitchvision.com/tail-end-batting

Thanks David.

These days I don't think of myself as a tail ender at all anymore. I have the skill of the average u/15 school cricket opening batsman! No 11 is just a number after all.

Today in the nets I was facing our clubs right arm leg spin bowler, I'm a left handed batsman and don't have much confidence against deliveries that turn in (I prefer the ball going away) but I am more than capable of holding any leg spinner out and making runs. Occasionally he bowled a leg break on the off side and I kicked it away (almost literally kicked it) and it would have went for leg byes. I stand a few centimeters outside my crease, and the ball landed more or less one and a half meters from me, and a half meter to the left of my stumps (On a bouncy concrete mat) In the fear that I would miss hit the ball I just thrust my pad forwards without playing a shot. Everyone told me that I am not allowed to do this and that I would be given out LBW after the first three times.

Were they seeing something that I wasn't seeing??? I could clearly see the ball with a lot of top spin, it's a bouncy concrete mat, the previous deliveries I had to block near my throat, he wasn't getting that much turn, and I padded the ball away which, in my opinion (and of course the umpire's, well hopefully his) it would not have turned enough to hit the stumps, would have bounced over them, and there is too much doubt to give it out! Doesn't the benefit of the doubt always go to the batsman?

So I would like to know
1) Am I allowed to thrust my pad forwards without playing a shot and kick the ball away with it.
2) Would an umpire give me out after he clearly saw the amount of turn and bounce in the pitch?
3) Should I rather play a shot when I do this? (even though I might nick / miss hit the ball if I do)
4) Do most umpires give a batsman out if they pad a ball outside the off stump away without playing a shot after, say 3 times?

 

[SLA]

No such thing as the benefit of the doubt. I'd probably give it out if I was umpiring. Why don't you use the bat?

 

[CancelledUser2014]

No such thing as the benefit of the doubt. I'd probably give it out if I was umpiring. Why don't you use the bat?

Most of the time I do, but on some odd occasions when I know the ball won't hit the stumps unless the laws of physics are broken I just pad the ball away. It's partly because it's less risky than playing against the spin but also because I believe there is no need for using the bat. Sometimes I know it's out though, my judgement does fail me now and then

 

[leftie600]

So I would like to know
1) Am I allowed to thrust my pad forwards without playing a shot and kick the ball away with it.
2) Would an umpire give me out after he clearly saw the amount of turn and bounce in the pitch?
3) Should I rather play a shot when I do this? (even though I might nick / miss hit the ball if I do)
4) Do most umpires give a batsman out if they pad a ball outside the off stump away without playing a shot after, say 3 times?

1) Of course you are but why are you doing that against a bowler you believe you can hold out/score off? Are you surrounded by players under the helmet?
2) Never take anything for granted, if I saw a player padding me off due to bounce there will be an undercut inspinning delivery coming their way. However, if you are happy that the bounce of the pitch is consistent and you can pick the overspun deliveries from the others then go ahead but as SLA said you have a bat and that should always be your first option.
3) Only play an attacking shot if you have to and/or if the ball is there & you know you will put it away. No matter where you bat though a block is a shot and should be treated as such.
4) Umpires are more inclined to give you out the lower down the order you bat plus the more you pad out deliveries that spin in the more enthusiastic the appeals become which means the umpire will start to feel the pressure. How would you feel as a bowler if someone kept padding off deliveries from you that were spinning in?

Do you deliberately stand outside your crease against spinners or was that only against the spinner? If that's true it's unique to say the least, you may want to have a think about that as you start to face tougher opposition. A better way would be to use the full depth of the crease to mix up the length of the spinner.

At the end of the day the value of your wicket depends on the team goal and situation, everything else will just muddle your mind.

 

[CancelledUser2014]

1) Of course you are but why are you doing that against a bowler you believe you can hold out/score off? Are you surrounded by players under the helmet?
2) Never take anything for granted, if I saw a player padding me off due to bounce there will be an undercut inspinning delivery coming their way. However, if you are happy that the bounce of the pitch is consistent and you can pick the overspun deliveries from the others then go ahead but as SLA said you have a bat and that should always be your first option.
3) Only play an attacking shot if you have to and/or if the ball is there & you know you will put it away. No matter where you bat though a block is a shot and should be treated as such.
4) Umpires are more inclined to give you out the lower down the order you bat plus the more you pad out deliveries that spin in the more enthusiastic the appeals become which means the umpire will start to feel the pressure. How would you feel as a bowler if someone kept padding off deliveries from you that were spinning in?

Do you deliberately stand outside your crease against spinners or was that only against the spinner? If that's true it's unique to say the least, you may want to have a think about that as you start to face tougher opposition. A better way would be to use the full depth of the crease to mix up the length of the spinner.

At the end of the day the value of your wicket depends on the team goal and situation, everything else will just muddle your mind.

Thanks I'll keep that in mind next time.

The leg spinner doesn't have a square side spinner or very good backspinner, (and if he had them I would have picked them) all his leg breaks are overspun and on a bouncy track always go over the stumps unless pitched up (in which case I would play a shot) His googly turns quite a bit and if it's pitched on middle stump there is no way that it could hit the stumps, he pitches it very full and he wants me to try and hit it so I could get a nick. To counter this I use my pad against it and it usually goes for leg byes. (I put my pad to the left of it so the umpire can see it spun into the pad and wouldn't have gone on to hit the stumps) Perhaps I should only use my pad in that situation.

I stand outside my crease for both spinners and fast bowlers, this is because the less travel time the ball has the less drift, dip or swing the ball will have. It also leads to much more full tosses that I can easily put away, and LBW chances are thwarted because if I advance and the ball hits me on the pad, there is about 3 and a half meters or more distance between where the ball hit the pad, and the stumps. I've never been out stumped in my life and can hopefully keep that up Is it perhaps to risky to stand outside the crease? It certainly doesn't feel risky at all.

 

[SLA]

Thanks I'll keep that in mind next time.

The leg spinner doesn't have a square side spinner or very good backspinner, (and if he had them I would have picked them) all his leg breaks are overspun and on a bouncy track always go over the stumps unless pitched up (in which case I would play a shot) His googly turns quite a bit and if it's pitched on middle stump there is no way that it could hit the stumps, he pitches it very full and he wants me to try and hit it so I could get a nick. To counter this I use my pad against it and it usually goes for leg byes. (I put my pad to the left of it so the umpire can see it spun into the pad and wouldn't have gone on to hit the stumps) Perhaps I should only use my pad in that situation.

I stand outside my crease for both spinners and fast bowlers, this is because the less travel time the ball has the less drift, dip or swing the ball will have. It also leads to much more full tosses that I can easily put away, and LBW chances are thwarted because if I advance and the ball hits me on the pad, there is about 3 and a half meters or more distance between where the ball hit the pad, and the stumps. I've never been out stumped in my life and can hopefully keep that up Is it perhaps to risky to stand outside the crease? It certainly doesn't feel risky at all.

If you can pick it, then you can hit it. Pads should be for absolute emergency only. Move your feet, watch the spin, hit the ball confidently.

You can't get leg byes after padding a ball away btw.

 

[CancelledUser2014]

If you can pick it, then you can hit it. Pads should be for absolute emergency only. Move your feet, watch the spin, hit the ball confidently.

You can't get leg byes after padding a ball away btw.

The difficulty is that when the ball is spinning into my body and bouncing up, I don't always have room to play a shot. Ironically, the best shot I have against a leg spinner is the drive through cover / extra cover, which is exactly what he wants me to play. I never get out playing it because my bat and pads is always very close together, so there is no gap for the ball to go between. When I see the ball landing shorter and I know it's going to bounce up at me and cramp my style I try to pad it away, but a regular leave will probably do.

How do you play a delivery that lands on leg stump and straightens enough to hit the wickets? A googly bowler was bowling to me and he went around the wicket, pitched the ball on about leg stump and straightened it enough to be able to hit leg stump. Most of the time I pulled him, on a few occasions I gave myself room and cut him through the backward point region. The thing about that line that troubles me is that the worst shot in my armory (if it is even in my armory, every time I've played it it was either luck or not intended) is the leg glance. I take guard on middle, so if my trigger movement takes me to the off side I'm in trouble. I do have a sweep shot, but I can't play it to every ball. Is it necessary for me to learn how to play the leg glance perfectly? The other shots I have may not be enough to counter the leg stump-straightening line.

 

[SLA]

The difficulty is that when the ball is spinning into my body and bouncing up, I don't always have room to play a shot. Ironically, the best shot I have against a leg spinner is the drive through cover / extra cover, which is exactly what he wants me to play. I never get out playing it because my bat and pads is always very close together, so there is no gap for the ball to go between. When I see the ball landing shorter and I know it's going to bounce up at me and cramp my style I try to pad it away, but a regular leave will probably do.

How do you play a delivery that lands on leg stump and straightens enough to hit the wickets? A googly bowler was bowling to me and he went around the wicket, pitched the ball on about leg stump and straightened it enough to be able to hit leg stump. Most of the time I pulled him, on a few occasions I gave myself room and cut him through the backward point region. The thing about that line that troubles me is that the worst shot in my armory (if it is even in my armory, every time I've played it it was either luck or not intended) is the leg glance. I take guard on middle, so if my trigger movement takes me to the off side I'm in trouble. I do have a sweep shot, but I can't play it to every ball. Is it necessary for me to learn how to play the leg glance perfectly? The other shots I have may not be enough to counter the leg stump-straightening line.

Ok, so to start with, if you can get to the pitch of the ball and drive it on the half volley or full toss, then do that because its relatively risk free and completely takes any turn and bounce out of the equation.

However: assuming the ball is too short to be able to safely get forward to, then you need to get right back onto your stumps and wait to see how the ball spins.

There are two scenarios here:

1) the ball is outside off stump. In this case go back into legstump, retaining a side on position. If the ball carries on past off stump you will have room to free your arms and cut it, if it spins back at you, you will have plenty of room to defend it or play a back foot drive.

2) the ball is coming straight at the stumps. In this case, go back in front of the stumps in a front on position - clear your front leg completely out of the way. lean forward slightly so you can play the ball a good foot in front of your body. You are now in a great position to either defend, pull, or work the ball into the legside for a single.

The leg glance isn't a particularly high % shot against a spinner, particularly off the front foot.

Sweeping has its uses but can also be risky (just ask the england cricket team when they got beat 3-0 by pakistan), the golden rule is never sweep a full ball on the stumps.

 

[CancelledUser2014]

Ok, so to start with, if you can get to the pitch of the ball and drive it on the half volley or full toss, then do that because its relatively risk free and completely takes any turn and bounce out of the equation.

However: assuming the ball is too short to be able to safely get forward to, then you need to get right back onto your stumps and wait to see how the ball spins.

There are two scenarios here:

1) the ball is outside off stump. In this case go back into legstump, retaining a side on position. If the ball carries on past off stump you will have room to free your arms and cut it, if it spins back at you, you will have plenty of room to defend it or play a back foot drive.

2) the ball is coming straight at the stumps. In this case, go back in front of the stumps in a front on position - clear your front leg completely out of the way. lean forward slightly so you can play the ball a good foot in front of your body. You are now in a great position to either defend, pull, or work the ball into the legside for a single.

The leg glance isn't a particularly high % shot against a spinner, particularly off the front foot.

Sweeping has its uses but can also be risky (just ask the england cricket team when they got beat 3-0 by pakistan), the golden rule is never sweep a full ball on the stumps.

Thanks Batting against spin is a great challenge, especially when your facing a bowler with all the toys! Makes it a lot easier if your a spinner yourself though!

Out of the 30 batsmen we (the spinners) have bowled to, only 2 of them have read a few variations! This is troubling, since they will face lots of spin bowlers with at least one deadly variation and need to be prepared for that. How do you explain to someone how to pick a spinner, and is it something that can be coached / taught easily?

 

[SLA]

Thanks Batting against spin is a great challenge, especially when your facing a bowler with all the toys! Makes it a lot easier if your a spinner yourself though!

Out of the 30 batsmen we (the spinners) have bowled to, only 2 of them have read a few variations! This is troubling, since they will face lots of spin bowlers with at least one deadly variation and need to be prepared for that. How do you explain to someone how to pick a spinner, and is it something that can be coached / taught easily?

Watch the ball spinning in the air. Doesn't matter what they do with their hand, if its spinning like a leg break its gonna turn like a leg break.

 

[shahidpak]

Watch the ball spinning in the air. Doesn't matter what they do with their hand, if its spinning like a leg break its gonna turn like a leg break.

Well how does Ravichandran ashwin bowl an "off spinner" with the ball spinning around the seam from left to right (like a normal off spinner but with no topspin) but the ball skids on ? on a spinning pitch?

 

[CancelledUser2014]

Well how does Ravichandran ashwin bowl an "off spinner" with the ball spinning around the seam from left to right (like a normal off spinner but with no topspin) but the ball skids on ? on a spinning pitch?

That's natural variation. No one can prevent that from happening. It's just a matter of watching the revs and the angle and judging the amount that the ball will most likely turn, and if the ball isn't on the stumps, just making sure you don't play for too much turn or no turn at all.

An off break with clean side spin skids on anyway (on almost every international cricket pitch) so if he doesn't put top spin on the ball you can just sit back, await the lack of turn, and watch the ball spinning through the air for a hint of top spin, then play for some turn.

 

[freddie90]

very valuable