Richie Benuad Files

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someblokecalleddave

someblokecalleddave

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I've been doing some research for one of my blogs http://legspinbowling.blogspot.com/ in order that I can update it. I've been focusing on the 'Back-Spinning' deliveries and trying to establish the history of the Orthodox Back-Spinner, Slider and Zooter. It seems that the history of all three involves Doug Ring, Richie Benaud and Peter Philpott. Benaud seems to be quite an important part of the story, but I've got so little information on Benaud that I need help with it.

The main question I need to have answered is - Did Benaud ever sit down and write descriptions of his Deliveries in the same way that Grimmett and Philpott did? If so what book and when?

It seems that the Orthodox Back-Spinner emerged after Grimmett wrote 'Getting wickets' so I can't claim that Grimmett invented the OBS. Philpott it seems is the only person the have described and confirmed the existence of the OBS, but he says that others (Benaud included) bowled it.

For the purposes of writing I can't be dealing with Internet references of anyone bowling these deliveries, I need proper written accounts from books in order to verify and therefore claim ownership of the deliveries.
 
as far as i'm aware the only book he has ever written for is the MCC masterclass book which i have, i've seen the same thing reprinted in a few other places. Here is the passage from the variations section of that piece which refers to back spinners:

"The sliding top-spinner, as its name perhaps suggests, does in fact slide out between the middle finger and the fourth finger. The hand action is identical to that of the leg break, back of the hand to the face, but the ball comes out of the hand with a kind of back-spin rather than leg-spin so that it goes straight on, rather than turns from leg. It is sometimes known as the 'back spinning top-spinner' and used to be bowled with great effect by the Australian Test player Peter Philpott"
 
what Benaud describes there is the "slider", of the dragging your fingers down the back of the ball variety. this isnt the OBS that Philpott bowled at all (and what i refer to as the Zooter). the OBS is bowled with the back of the hand facing slightly upward and away from the face. and the ball is released in the exact same manner as the leg break
 
GoldenArm said:
as far as i'm aware the only book he has ever written for is the MCC masterclass book which i have, i've seen the same thing reprinted in a few other places. Here is the passage from the variations section of that piece which refers to back spinners:

"The sliding top-spinner, as its name perhaps suggests, does in fact slide out between the middle finger and the fourth finger. The hand action is identical to that of the leg break, back of the hand to the face, but the ball comes out of the hand with a kind of back-spin rather than leg-spin so that it goes straight on, rather than turns from leg. It is sometimes known as the 'back spinning top-spinner' and used to be bowled with great effect by the Australian Test player Peter Philpott"
Click to expand...

What's the date of that books publication? Is it before 1995 and if it is - could you scan any of the pages that deal with Back-Spinners as I'd be very interested in what's written as this wholly undermines my research that I've done?
 
GoldenArm said:
as far as i'm aware the only book he has ever written for is the MCC masterclass book which i have, i've seen the same thing reprinted in a few other places. Here is the passage from the variations section of that piece which refers to back spinners:

"The sliding top-spinner, as its name perhaps suggests, does in fact slide out between the middle finger and the fourth finger. The hand action is identical to that of the leg break, back of the hand to the face, but the ball comes out of the hand with a kind of back-spin rather than leg-spin so that it goes straight on, rather than turns from leg. It is sometimes known as the 'back spinning top-spinner' and used to be bowled with great effect by the Australian Test player Peter Philpott"
Click to expand...

Benaud used the term "sort of like a sliding top-spinner" to describe a delivery in the last test. I couldn't tell what he meant from what they showed on tv.

Bit confused by " back of hand to face" if it was the backspinning topspinner it comes out like jim says, sort of up and away, if it was facing anyone it would be in the grandstand on the onside somewhere.! But it could be the backspinning topspinner/ zooter/ OBS just he got his description a bit wrong, he emphasises IDENTICAL hand action, which is more like the topspinning backspinner than the dragging fingers type slider.

Benaud wrote pretty much FA about what he got up to. I think i emailed you dave the two page legspin guide he used to send out to people who wrote to him with questions, he sent them this little guide. Very Basic.

Funny how he says philpott used the backspinner to great effect because philpott says the same of benaud.
 
Yeah my conclusion is that the Orthodox Back-Spinner, Slider and Zooter are all the same thing - same as Googly/Wrong Un and Bosie. But I reckon there's a couple of new deliveries that have emerged since Warne and they're the Palm Ball Zooter/Slider and the 2 Fingers/cross seam drag down the back Zooter/Slider
 
Jim2109 said:
what Benaud describes there is the "slider", of the dragging your fingers down the back of the ball variety. this isnt the OBS that Philpott bowled at all (and what i refer to as the Zooter). the OBS is bowled with the back of the hand facing slightly upward and away from the face. and the ball is released in the exact same manner as the leg break
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i disagree, he describes it exactly as you do. exactly the same as a leg break but with back spin. the description is pretty vague but its clearly the phillpott OBS/zooter/whatever.
 
him saying that it is bowled exactly like the leg break though implies to me that the BATSMAN would see it as that. meaning 2 up 2 down grip, hand and wrist positioned as if bowling a leg break, but then the ball is released with backspin. the Zooter (OBS) is bowled with the hand and wrist rotated round by at least 90 degrees. so to the batsman it wouldnt look the same. the back of the hand would definitely not be facing the bowlers face. and thats why im assuming it to be the dragging fingers slider delivery. he also says "kind of backspin", implying that its not pure backspin, because if it was he would just say that. it sounds more like the slider to me than the zooter.
 
Jim2109 said:
him saying that it is bowled exactly like the leg break though implies to me that the BATSMAN would see it as that. meaning 2 up 2 down grip, hand and wrist positioned as if bowling a leg break, but then the ball is released with backspin. the Zooter (OBS) is bowled with the hand and wrist rotated round by at least 90 degrees. so to the batsman it wouldnt look the same. the back of the hand would definitely not be facing the bowlers face. and thats why im assuming it to be the dragging fingers slider delivery. he also says "kind of backspin", implying that its not pure backspin, because if it was he would just say that. it sounds more like the slider to me than the zooter.
Click to expand...

Surely, Benaud saying "the hand action is identical to that of the leg break" is referring to the fact that it follows on round-the-loop and is bowled with the same finger and wrist action as the leg break but with the wrist turned another 90 degrees and spun towards the bowler, rather than at right angles to the direction of flight. I'm with GoldenArm that this sounds more like the OBS than the "hands run down the back of the ball" backspinner.
 
Antipodean said:
Surely, Benaud saying "the hand action is identical to that of the leg break" is referring to the fact that it follows on round-the-loop and is bowled with the same finger and wrist action as the leg break but with the wrist turned another 90 degrees and spun towards the bowler, rather than at right angles to the direction of flight. I'm with GoldenArm that this sounds more like the OBS than the "hands run down the back of the ball" backspinner.
Click to expand...

it can easily be interpreted either way though. the hand action cant be identical to the leg break in both ways, and he doesnt specify which. and by saying "back of the hand to the face" that is actually more conclusive than the hand being identical (either in action, or visually) because there is literally no way you can bowl the zooter with the back of your hand facing your face.
 
Benaud crunched some stats here http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/...n/2006/02/11/1139542444439.html?page=fullpage and he was surprised that according to his formula the greatest ever test bowler by the stats was... Clarrie Grimmett!!!

The man, who along with the incomparable Hedley Verity, dismissed Bradman more times than any other bowler, and he played a lot of his cricket in the same club, state and national sides as Bradman so he got less chance to dismiss the bloke anyway.
 
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