Steven Smith, video link, general thoughts

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Sparksy88

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Hi guys, managed to get a good shot of Smith recently bowling against india:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxnYE0PYnPY

General thoughts on Smith?

I'v really noticed in the recent games Smith has really slowed his action/run up down compared to when he appeared on the scene, i hear Warne has influenced this as the work togeather when ever they can. At first the action seems jeerky and unusual but once you get used to it its great to watch because its full of energy. He also seems to get good revs on the ball with lots of side spin, have seen him turn it big yet, maybe because he has been bowling flat and fast on flat odi decks, but i think we will see him get some more turn as he slows everyhting down and as he gets more overs in the longer formats. He seems to bowl mostly side spin leg breaks mixed with a front of the hand quick slider. Seems to be in the side as an allrounder rather than specialist spinner? Will be interesting to watch him develope and see what role he plays.
 
Untill Warnie came along the general consensus was that legspinners dont really fully develop till around 30 years of age. That might be the case with smith even though he is being fast tracked no-doubt.

He has a nice bag of tricks including a good flipper. But if those long hops were not on purpose ( 20/20 ? they might have been intentional but i dont think so) he has to get his length sorted or he will get treated like mc gain did in his only test in S.A
 
Is he going to make an appearence in the Ashes this time round or have all the selections been made and finalised? It'd be good to see him in the longer form of the game.
 
And another from side on. This was from the Sri Lanka 2020 in which he bowled plenty of long hops, but this ball was pretty spot on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nPrl60VFAg

I have a feeling they will give Smith a good run, his batting has is potentialy very useful and people (inc Warnie) seem to speak highly of him.
Ashes? If they want to pick two spinners then he could get a game but its clear that Hauritz (spelling) is their fave unless he has a real poor start, who knows?
 
His bowling yesterday was pretty awful. but then Australia in general didnt play well. Which as an Englishman I am loving with the Ashes a month away :D

He can turn the ball big when he wants to, I can't remember which test match I watched him in, India perhaps, and he was turning the ball huge on occasion. His basic technique looks pretty good, hes got Warne mentoring him, so theres every chance he will go on and make it as a world class leggie. I have a feeling he might get overtaken by someone else though in the pecking order in the meantime. Now that he is an "international" player he is going to lose out on cricket, because hes always going to be there as a part-time spinner alongside Hauritz, or a reserve player. Whilst the other promising young leggies at State level are going to be getting plenty of match practice at home.

Its probably a bad idea for him to be in the international line-up right now unless he is going to get test matches (and even then, with Ponting as captain you're better off out, the guy is a complete moron and has no clue how to use a spinner. He was lucky with Warne because Warne just dictated everything himself). All of the T20 and occasional ODI appearances arent going to help his game. He has good technique, but his tactics look pretty poor. He never seems to have a plan, he just bowls. Whenever you see him talking to his captain he doesnt seem to be dictating what he wants. Macca says that the conventional wisdom was always that leggies didnt peak until their 30's. This may well be true. Not from a technique standpoint so much as a mental one. It takes a great deal of intelligence, guile and mental strength to succeed as a leg spinner, and Smith is just too young to have any of those yet. And he doesnt seem to have the raw talent (or luck) of Warne at a similar age. Even Warne didn't peak until his 30's, he got some luck early on in his career (helped by the absence of good leg spin from international cricket for many years prior to his arrival), and then progressed solidly. But it was the last 5 or so years of his career where his bowling really became a different class. Not because of any technique (if anything his injuries limited his physical ability), but just his intelligence.

I rate Graeme Cremer of Zimbabwe as the best leggie in the world right now (unfortunately he plays for the worst test team). Amit Mishra is pretty good too (although I haven't seen him play in a while?). Imran Tahir looked excellent in county cricket this season, but its not the same level as international so I don't know how he would fare against top batsmen.
 
Blimey - Cremer? Do you reckon? Mishra I've seen him bowl well and I always keep an eye on Cremer, but to say he's good on an international level, I'm not so sure?

Ponting a Moron? Is that the general consensus?
 
Compared to say Warne or Kumble, Cremer is nothing at all. But there is a complete absence of quality leg spin right now. Kaneria is utterly useless, I don't rate him at all. Hes been around longer than most but has completely failed to learn anything. He never improves, hes lazy, hes not a team player, and hes most probably a match fixer as well (although never proven guilty thus far).

Mishra looks a solid leggie, but he never gets a game for India, theres 2 or 3 spinners ahead of him in the pecking order for whatever reason.

Cremer though plays for the worst "major" cricket nation. He has weak fielders, weak captaincy, and weak batsmen that never set a total anywhere near high enough for him to defend. But he always looks dangerous, he always gets the ball turning (even in W.Indies), hes consistent, and hes an athlete. Everytime I've seen him play (which granted isnt that many times) he always looks like he has improved from the previous time as well. And hes still only young. Its hypothetical, but if he was playing for a top test nation I reckon he would be considerably more impressive.

Overall hes only played 6 tests, all of them in 2005 and he hasnt played a Test since (Zimbabwe were banned from test cricket though around about the time that he broke into their side!). Hes got 13 wickets at an average of 45 and S/R of 66. Not that impressive really, but half of those tests were against Bangladesh, and he had only just broken into the side, hes got 5 years more experience now. Against S.Africa in 2 matches he took 6 wickets at an average of 32 and a S/R of 35, in S.Africa!

In ODI's he averages 28 with a S/R of 36, and in T20 he averages 17 with a S/R of 14. Those figures include quite a few games against first rate opposition. Although if you take Kenya, Ireland, Bangladesh and Canada away they are far less impressive. But hes still taken wickets against India, S.Africa, Sri Lanka and W.Indies.

Interestingly I just had a look at Steve Smiths figures, thinking they would probably be hugely unimpressive. But how are these for figures at the age of 21, for someone that hasnt really performed that well yet, and looks like they have a lot more potential...

Tests - 2 matches played, 3 wickets at 27.33 with a S/R of 62
ODIs - 6 matches played, 9 wickets at 31.44 with a S/R of 32.56
T20 - 14 matches played, 16 wickets at 20.81 with a S/R of 15.94!!

And he has only played 1 ODI against Bangladesh, all the rest of the matches were against test nations. His ODI figures arent far away from Shane Warnes career figures (bearing in mind Smith is still a rookie and presumably nowhere near his peak), and they are substantially better than Danish Kaneria.

Maybe Smith is better than I give credit for. But then again figures can easily mislead, and he hasnt played that many matches. Time will tell.
 
If smith can keep up those strike rates he will be a good test spin bowler let alone batsman and fieldsman. Benaud reckons the great legspinners go around 10-12 overs on average between wickets so he is right in that range.

Still he has a lot to learn but being instructed by one of the, if not the, greatest bowler in history must help.
 
Sparksy88 said:
Hi guys, managed to get a good shot of Smith recently bowling against india:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxnYE0PYnPY

General thoughts on Smith?
Click to expand...

seemed like there was only overspin on that delivery from smith. Didn't seem to get a lot of turn in the game vs India, and didn't seem to trouble anyone really. And from those few clips, I like rashid's action better - should watch more of him.
Re: Ponting's captaincy - he is more clueless than even Graeme smith is when it comes to captaining a spinner.
 
Remember the start of Warnes career? He was lucky the selectors game him time an he suddenly burst into life. Not saying Smith will be anywhere near Warnes class, but its not a good idea to judge him on one test cap.

@Jim , interesting you mention Cremer, was watching him recently and was thinking what standard he would play if he was say English/Australian. If England has a youngish spinner the same as cremer then would he get a chance (if Swann wasnt on the scene)? He looked impressive but at the same time the SA batsmen seemed comfortable (ok players such as Amla and AB DV are the best in the world) but again he looked good. Cant really say he is better than Kaneria though can we. Agree DK hasnt developed into the kind of bowler he should have, but he is still the best LS in the world surely. But why dosnt that Tahir (guy from Hampshire, spelling) play more international cricket? Or even talked about.
 
I'm waiting for Rashid to come through, as far as I know he's been left out of the England set up for Australia. Here in the UK they've got a Spin Academy thing going on, not that you can ever find out much about it, Liz Ward seems to be aware of it (I think). From the little snippets of info you can find on-line it's a long term plan and it does seem to involve protecting spinners like Rashid from being subjected to International games too early in thier careers and potentially damaging them, as I recall there was a series a while back in South Africa where he got a go and then was withdrawn before he was destroyed. It seems that this may be the thinking with the Ashes this year? All the while we've got Swanne with Panesar potentially being brought back in from the cold, there's no need to subject Rashid to the ravages of top rate Test cricket, giving him time to mature as a bloke and learn his craft on the county circuit.

There's very little footage of Rashid bowling which is a shame because it would be good to be able to follow him as he grows into a fully fledge Wrist Spinner, so it's nice that Sparksy has dug up that clip.
 
Imran Tahir is playing for Warwickshire now, and was excellent this season when I saw him on TV. I think he might be back at Hampshire next season, they got rid of him for a year to make way for Ajantha Mendis (who never arrived). He plays in S.Africa as well. He is Pakistani, but apparently qualified to play for South Africa through residency because his wife is S.African. They called him up to their test squad when England were playing out there last winter because Harris is utter cr@p and they wanted someone that could actually spin a ball, having seen what Swann was doing! But then he got dropped a day later because there was a misunderstanding and actually he didnt qualify to play for S.Africa or something, so I dont know what has happened since. He stands little chance of getting into the Pakistan side with Afridi, Kaneria and Ajmal there. Also Im not sure many players would want to play in that side right now. And if he doesnt qualify for S.Africa then he cant play there, but even if he does theyve got a few spinners they are using now to decent effect, so I think maybe the opportunity has passed. Hes 31, so toward the end of his career. But I think hes an excellent leggie, he terrorises county batsmen and has an outstanding wrong'un. If he was English then I think he would have been given a chance in the performance squads at some point. Hes miles better than Rashid.
 
I thought this was interesting -

Trackman measures the revolutions per minute that spin bowlers impart on the ball. Inevitably, wrist spinners tend to be higher than finger spinners and of England's leading men Adil Rashid possessed a higher average rpm (2,312) than Graeme Swann (2,083).

Here's some Rashid stuff http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ut-as-a-new-boy-you-have-to-cope-2029316.html

I'm liking this as well - http://www.cricketwithballs.com/2010/09/23/england-discriminate-against-adil-rashid/

Here's some More Rashid bowling http://www.itnsource.com/shotlist/SSN/2009/04/08/X08040909/
 
However many thousands of pounds theyve spent on that Trackman device, theyve wasted it. I'd bet as much money as that machine costs that Rashid isn't even close to 2000rpm, nor Swann. I don't know how it works, but if it picks up the seam then maybe its picking it twice, which would make a lot more sense, he barely spins the ball at all!! Even Warne doesn't generate 2000rpm from the slow motion vids I've looked at. More like 1600rpm. If I spin the ball less than Rashid then I'm going to give up playing cricket right now.
 
I haven't seen much of Cremer but Amit Mishra, at his best, is my favourite one to watch at the moment.

Simon Katich is worth watching too.
 
Here is an analysis of Steve Smith when he bowled in the 2020 world cup getting Pollard stumped, Sammy caught and bowled, and for the hat trick ball -- it wasn't so good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kbpv65uQvZc

I always harp on about leg drive and hip drive, but here is a working example. Consider his follow through. Strange Segue? Well your follow through is a component of a good action, but also an indicator of how powerful the early part of your action was. So if you had a strong leg drive and hip drive and you have a good follow through then you have complete your action. However to get to a good follow through position you need a strong action -- just try getting into the follow through position without going through your bowling action. It puts strain on your body, and it's really hard to keep balance.

1st ball to get Pollard Stumped:
An ABSOLUTE BEAUTY to get Pollard out. Drift in, beat the batsman with flight, turned it past the bat, and drew the batsman into the shot. He was also way on his front foot so he might have done him with pace as well.
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On his follow through, the right shoulder is completely straight in line with his left foot. His right leg is in a diagonal line with his head. His head is to the left due to trunk lean as he brings his arm straight over. He needs to lean if his shoulder is to go in line with his supporting leg. As Warney would say everything is going towards the batsman... a perfect delivery for which the natural variation of the wrist, spin, dip can work... and remembering to get to this position required huge power.

2nd ball to get Sammy: Pretty good. Poor shot really by the batsman. Beaten for spin and flight. Not getting to the pitch and turning the bat too early. Perhaps then beaten for lack of pace as well.
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This is not as good a delivery as the one to Pollard. If Pollard was playing this ball coming out of the crease he would have gotten to it. Why? Look at the shoulder in comparison to the left leg. Smith here has not followed through with his shoulder adequately. This is because his weaker body mechanics have not allowed him to tilt his trunk, and hence his head to the left... pulling his shoulder in line with his leg. His head should probably be in line with the red line -- but as you can see it really isn't.

Hat Trick Ball: Jerome Taylor?
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His shoulder position at follow through is a bit better, but look at that leg. It's still up and driving through. NOT GOOD! He should chronologically first be driving from his legs with his arm back, and then after his legs have driven or while they are driving through then ball release. He hence drops it shorter as he has lost power through inefficient mechanics. Also notice then his head is not in the position of that beautiful delivery to Pollard, and with his right leg near horizontal he's unbalanced and puts it wide of the off stump. From this follow through we can tell that there was a deficiency in his bowling action -- i.e. a follow through as an indicator of power through the crease.

Pays you should try and pause the last delivery of the video and see what deficiencies are noticeable just by looking at the follow through.

The next ball that he bowls drops short and is cut away. His leg again doesn't drive through well enough. His right leg is horizontal at follow through, his head position again upright.

Again let us compare to the Gatting Ball.
36098629.jpg


Warnie's right leg is down. In this delivery he didn't swing it as much as Steve Smith did in WI. Warney hence used his leg to drive his hips. His hips are square or horizontal to the batsman -- this is all I ask. More than that, by getting the hips through earlier, and swinging less he's more balanced and hence his right leg in picture is in line with his neck and head. Then look at Warney's right shoulder. Perfect trunk lean such that his shoulder comes around and ends up in line with his left leg. That my friends is the follow through of the delivery of the last century. And his first ball in Ashes cricket -- his balance is amazing enough if it was just his first ball of a spell in grade cricket.

So what do I think of Steven Smith? He's got a lot more consistency issues to work with. He's got the turn, and all the tools. He's still learning about his mechanics, and perhaps he's even gone backwards as shown by his poor bowling at the WACA. However from his deficiencies, at least there is something to learn.
 
Steve Smith played again today (or tonight if youre in Aus) in their ODI against Sri Lanka. he was 0/8 off of 3 overs and bowling a much better length than the other day, but was totally outshone by some slow left armer ive never heard of who got 4 top order wickets and was beating the outside edge constantly! then Smith didnt bowl again. Australia had Sri Lanka something like 8/108 off 25 overs, chasing 240, and then left it to the seamers to try and clean things up. yet they still managed to lose it with 6 overs left! the seamers were horrendous, and the Ashes is looking like a 5-0 English whitewash is perfectly realistic, but to not bowl Smith was utterly disgraceful. in the post-match interview Clarke said that Smith had injured his back in the field and couldnt bowl again, but he made multiple sprawling dives throughout the innings, and looked to be in no pain whatsoever. and to be perfectly honest, when your seamers are bowling like that youd use a slightly injured player without hesitation if you thought it might get the breakthrough!! the Sri Lankan 9th wicket partnership between Mathews and Malinga was the highest ever in ODI cricket.
 
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