Steven Smith, video link, general thoughts

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someblokecalleddave said:
Borthwick - isn't he one of the blokes that Shane Warne was working with in the middle during the last ashes over here - and he didn't even know what a wrong un or a flipper was let alone bowl em?
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that's the fella, it was him and Will Beer i think. Personally wouldn't hold your breath on either of them ever playing for England. They'd have made the performance squad by now if they were ever going to.
 
GoldenArm said:
that's the fella, it was him and Will Beer i think. Personally wouldn't hold your breath on either of them ever playing for England. They'd have made the performance squad by now if they were ever going to.
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Borthwick wasnt present. it was Will Beer and Max Waller from Somerset. Scott Borthwick is from Durham and a couple of years younger than those 2. hes been playing in the Durham side for 2 or 3 years now. hes had a few shockers, such as one over in a T20 match against Essex where he went for 35 runs off 5 balls iirc and cost his side the game. but he was bowling at James Foster, who id rate as one of the best one-day/T20 batsmen in county cricket, and probably the best wicket keeper as well.

hes not bad at all, and still only 20. hes got a couple more seasons of maturing to do at county level and then we will see where hes at. thats why i rate his chances better, as Rashid is ready now but is never going to get a chance whilst Swann is around. in 3 or 4 years when Swann retires or whatever hes going to have wasted his best years of international development (although plenty of players start their international careers late, Swann is a good example). Borthwick on the other hand will be prime. there might even be someone else breaks through yet, there are plenty of very good off spinners around as well. unlike Australia where leg spin is always favoured and will be promoted at all costs, we have a tendancy to overlook it and go for controlling off spin instead. which is a shame.
 
Jim2109 said:
Borthwick wasnt present. it was Will Beer and Max Waller from Somerset. Scott Borthwick is from Durham and a couple of years younger than those 2. hes been playing in the Durham side for 2 or 3 years now. hes had a few shockers, such as one over in a T20 match against Essex where he went for 35 runs off 5 balls iirc and cost his side the game. but he was bowling at James Foster, who id rate as one of the best one-day/T20 batsmen in county cricket, and probably the best wicket keeper as well.

hes not bad at all, and still only 20. hes got a couple more seasons of maturing to do at county level and then we will see where hes at. thats why i rate his chances better, as Rashid is ready now but is never going to get a chance whilst Swann is around. in 3 or 4 years when Swann retires or whatever hes going to have wasted his best years of international development (although plenty of players start their international careers late, Swann is a good example). Borthwick on the other hand will be prime. there might even be someone else breaks through yet, there are plenty of very good off spinners around as well. unlike Australia where leg spin is always favoured and will be promoted at all costs, we have a tendancy to overlook it and go for controlling off spin instead. which is a shame.
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ah you're not wrong, it was Max Waller, recognise his face now. Borthwick is pretty decent, despite the 5 sixes in a row! (i've got him beat i went for 6 in a row once when i first started out bowling leggies). Lets just hope they are letting him mature and leave him alone until he's ready for a stint in the performance squad in the next couple of years.
 
David Saker. hes the fast bowling coach though, or maybe just a general bowling coach. it was him that asked Warnie to have a look at Scott Borthwick the other day.
 
I watched Smith bowl a few overs in the test today. It looks like he's trimmed his run up a bit and he doesn't seem to be driving with his legs/hips the way he was a few months back in the ODI's. First I thought this was a deliberate tactic to just concentrate on line and length rather than putting much effort into spinning it, then I realised that it would make more sense to adopt that sort of tactic in ODI's where the onus is on restricting runs more than looking for wickets. Strange plan in tests though (if indeed it's a "plan" as such and not just a slip in his action).

Also, Warne was talking on air about how he liked Beer's action apart from he didn't pivot and drive his leg through enough. This seems to be the most common problem for spin bowlers.
 
Antipodean said:
I watched Smith bowl a few overs in the test today. It looks like he's trimmed his run up a bit and he doesn't seem to be driving with his legs/hips the way he was a few months back in the ODI's. First I thought this was a deliberate tactic to just concentrate on line and length rather than putting much effort into spinning it, then I realised that it would make more sense to adopt that sort of tactic in ODI's where the onus is on restricting runs more than looking for wickets. Strange plan in tests though (if indeed it's a "plan" as such and not just a slip in his action).

Also, Warne was talking on air about how he liked Beer's action apart from he didn't pivot and drive his leg through enough. This seems to be the most common problem for spin bowlers.
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Gday guys back from hols and no phone reception or internet. How did we used to get by ??? I got to the test today and noticed exactly what you did. Smith seemed to push up and straighten his left left leg but then just stopped on the next step, not going through for another few steps as you imagine he might if really powering through. He didn't bowl too bad though but seemed to be a last resort with Clarke.
P. s dont bother going to a match at the scg the security guards(fun police) have cracked down on everything and it was one of the most boring days of cricket crowd wise Ive ever been to.
 
South Africa have two leg spinners in their ODI squad for India series. One of them is Imran Tahir (the Pakistani born guy), who has incredible first class stats (500+ wickets at 24.00). Good to see him finally qualified to play for SA. The other guy is Faf Du Plessis, who's a leg spinning all rounder. He seems to be mostly there for his batting but could be one to watch. I'll definitely try and watch a bit of them bowling over the course of the series, Tahir in particular.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
Smiths doing well in the one dayers - just watching it now and he's had Ian Bell and Eoin Morgan cheaply.
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Not a bad tactic he was using actually. He got both wickets pushing it quite wide of off stump to induce the drive and had both of them caught in the circle. Not a lot of turn there, but he still looks to be putting a lot less energy into his delivery than he used to, still not driving with his hips to the same degree as he does in the vids at the beginning of this thread. I wonder what's brought about the change in his action?
 
Maybe he's been reading the stuff on this site and decided that in the short term while he's still in the early stages of his development, he'd better hold back on trying to bowl big turning leg breaks because he hasn't got the accuracy sussed yet. Maybe he realises that if he keeps giving away runs and has a bad strike rate - he'll be back in the state set up with no prospect of playing for the national side? So he's playing safe - rolling it in preference to flicking it and getting far better accuracy and bingo - a couple of international wickets already! Watch the slow mo's on the coverage of one of the wickets - it's not flick it's a roller!
 
I watched him bowl again on Friday and the ball that he got Trott with, Benaud reckoned it was a the slider then a couple of seconds later he said it was the top spinner. Watching the slow mo it just looked like a typical leg break with seam pointing toward second slip. What is ol' Richie on!?
 
Antipodean said:
I watched him bowl again on Friday and the ball that he got Trott with, Benaud reckoned it was a the slider then a couple of seconds later he said it was the top spinner. Watching the slow mo it just looked like a typical leg break with seam pointing toward second slip. What is ol' Richie on!?
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If even Benaud can't pick Smith, he must be a damn good bowler!
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I have got the feeling watching a few videos that while Benaud was undoubtedly a great bowler his understanding of the theory behind what he did was a little less than it should be. I do think Smith is very talented, and his problem seems to me that he's currently being picked mainly on the strength of his batting, which means he's having to demonstrate his bowling many years earlier than he otherwise would so it's a bit premature. Still, he seems to be getting wickets in the ODIs, and I'm getting more and more irritated by the Sky commentators blaming the batsmen rather than crediting Smith when he does.
 
Spiderlounge said:
If even Benaud can't pick Smith, he must be a damn good bowler! :D

I have got the feeling watching a few videos that while Benaud was undoubtedly a great bowler his understanding of the theory behind what he did was a little less than it should be. I do think Smith is very talented, and his problem seems to me that he's currently being picked mainly on the strength of his batting, which means he's having to demonstrate his bowling many years earlier than he otherwise would so it's a bit premature. Still, he seems to be getting wickets in the ODIs, and I'm getting more and more irritated by the Sky commentators blaming the batsmen rather than crediting Smith when he does.
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This series has at least shown that Smith is an asset to the side, one way or another. He's a bit like Shahid Afridi really. You never really know whether he's there more for his batting or for his bowling but you know that on his day he could quite probably win a game for you with either.
 
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