The Big Leg-Break

[someblokecalleddave]

The Big Leg-Break

Clarrie Grimmett in his book 'Taking Wickets' describes for the *first time ever back in the 1930 how the wrist can be used at different angles using the same grip to get the ball to turn off the wicket with Top-Spin; Leg-spin; Back-spin and Off-spin. Peter Philpott in his book 'The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling' takes the explanation a step further and comes up with the 'Round the loop' model to describe the wrist positions more clearly. Additionally Philpott adds the notion of spinning the ball in-towards the body at the point of release in order to produce the 'Big Leg-Break'.

YouTube - Wrist spin - round the loop - slider & big Leg Break practice technique

Standing still as in the video I can relase the ball letting it go forward a little way and because of the back-spin either get it to stall (Slider) or get it to land and turn at 90 degrees to the forward flight when released. Over the last 2 years I've been working with this technique which includes a very pronounced flick of the wrist and fingers trying to bowl it over some distance. I've always found that the combination of the maximum wrist and flinger flick is so difficult to replicate consistently that the ball has been uncontrollable, doing everything that a Leg-Break shouldn't, including not-turning 80% of the time. Faced with that failure rate I've found it very difficult to justify and commit to putting in the obvious hours required to get the action more consistent. But I've had short periods where maybe 6-10 balls every now and then have come out of the hand correctly and they've turned in the manner that the 'Biggun' should. The line and length has been wrong, but just for a handful of balls the synchronisation of most of the components - Fingers, wrist, arm and shoulder has come together perfectly and you feel it ripping off the fingers and you know that it's going to turn massive and it does. Its been these moments that have kept me returning to it to try it every now and then.

This year, after a very good year last year of massive experimentation with several variations I've commited to bowling 95% Leg-Breaks with 3 variations. Four balls which I've generally mastered fairly well. This has meant that this year my 'Developmental' ball is the Big Leg-Break, which means I'll be putting in a lot of time trying to get it sussed.

Today I think I've had a break through, I've been getting the synchronisation of the upper body elements together over a distance of about 12 yards using hockey balls on concrete/tarmac bowling at a thin bit of brick-work between two garages outside my house (About 45cms wide) and I've been able to land the ball very wide of the bricks getting the ball to turn back in and hit the bricks. With the improvement in weather of late, today I was able to get out into the paddock where I practice during the season and try this delivery over a longer length 15-16 yards. It worked and furthermore my accuracy was good enough to use in a match situation! But in addition to the accuracy was the consistency, the ball was coming out of the hand after a few dodgy ones at the start, perfectly 95% of the time, so 2 key elements seemed to come together today over a much longer distance - line and length and the ability to repeat the action again and again. I'm just hoping now that when I try it again - I'll be able to repeat the action and continue with the Line and length success. If that happens - I'll work on extending the distance. It now looks promising and as though if the weather holds out I may get this sussed before the season?

*Unless you know otherwise.

24hrs later...... In the drizzle I went over to an old tennis court near me with the Hockey Balls and had another go and extended the length to 20 yards. It went okay and looks promising in the longer term. Line was generally good, length was a bit iffy and the consistency of the release technique was erratic. Additionally over the longer distance with the need to propel the ball faster the sting was being taken out of the turn off the wicket a bit, but it was still bigger than my usual leg-break and this is with a ball with no seam. The longer term prospects look promising.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

The kids were away today at the beach with some friends and my wife leaving me at home to have a bit of practice. It ended up being a frustrating couple of hours with nothing going particularly right. Extremely accurate,

but not a lot of turn with the leg-breaks. The wrong un on the other hand turns like Shane Warnes ball of the century nearly every time! After about an hour of persisting with the Leg-Break it eventually started to come good

with a far more relaxed approach and a looser grip. So for the latter 3rd of the session I was back on form, but I was still trying all sorts of things and never really found a good groove where I felt I was bowling with a

degree of ease. At the end, for an extra 10 minutes or so, I had a go at the Biggun having been practicing it up against the garage and it working well. The same success was initially found over about 15 yards but I then

quicky changed up to 17, 19 and 22 yards and it went to pieces again. I find that the more effort I put into bowling it the more it has a tendency to be a wrong un.

Later in the day I had another 1/2 an hour bowling just the Biggun over fifteen yards and that went fairly well. This delivery in comparison with my other Leg-Breaks is fundamentally different. To the point where maybe my

usual Leg-Breaks may not even be Leg-Breaks, but might be defined as Leg-Cutters because they do not use Philpotts much vaunted 'Flick'? Maybe it's the case that because I've had the 'Googly syndrome' I'm still really

struggling to produce what Philpott would call a proper Leg-Break with the big wrist flick, I can do it with the Wrong Un easily and it turns massive and with such ease, but getting the wrist and fingers to flick so the ball

comes out as a Big Leg-Break I'm finding very difficult. Having said that it's coming together slowly. This second session I just stuck to bowling over 15 yards and for about 66% of the time I'd say that it worked well and it

turned massively. The rest of the time it went straight or come out as Wrong Uns. I'll stick to 15 yards and just see if I can get it working well over that distance far more consistently before I mover on to bowling a longer

distance?

 

[macca]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Sounds like you can wristflick the wrongun but the further you progress anti clockwise around the loop towards the big legbreak and backspinner you lose it as you go ?

 

[GoldenArm]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Perhaps this has something to do with the height of your arm? I find that the more roundarm I get the more spin I can impart on the ball. Now naturally the higher your arm logically the more turn you should be able to get with a googly. I usually settle on a place that falls somewhere inbetween to satisfy both. This could possibly explain why your googly rips and your leggies just turn a bit? i also reckon that coming fully side on like you do doesn't allow for maximum turn, it nips quite quickly but not a dramatic amount. i think Grimmett has a photo illustrating this in Getting Wickets where he is side on and then front on.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Sounds like you can wristflick the wrongun but the further you progress anti clockwise around the loop towards the big legbreak and backspinner you lose it as you go ?

That's about right, the wrong un comes out perfect, but the Leg-Break is inconsistent and just exceptionally difficult. I've got a feeling that if I work at, it'll come. I go through short phases 4 or 5 balls where it comes out perfect and then lose it again and then 10 balls later it's back again for a few more having bowled straight ones or wrong uns in between.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Perhaps this has something to do with the height of your arm? I find that the more roundarm I get the more spin I can impart on the ball. Now naturally the higher your arm logically the more turn you should be able to get with a googly. I usually settle on a place that falls somewhere inbetween to satisfy both. This could possibly explain why your googly rips and your leggies just turn a bit? i also reckon that coming fully side on like you do doesn't allow for maximum turn, it nips quite quickly but not a dramatic amount. i think Grimmett has a photo illustrating this in Getting Wickets where he is side on and then front on.

No it's the opposite for me - bowling round arm gets me no-where, I found during the 2nd session I had some consistency and good accuracy with a very vertical arm and what felt like a slightly earlier release.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

This is slowly coming together, I don't think it's something I can rush. I'm currently in a poor form stage with my bowling, but I had a couple of hours today, including half an hour in the Paddock bowling in my normal manner not trying to do anything special and that was pretty good. Then later I went over to another field and towards the end of the session I focussed on bowling the Big Leg-Break. I put a single stump in the ground and then another with a bag over the top of it a yard & a bit in front of the single stump blocking the view of the single stump. I then tried pitching the ball legside turning it round the back of the bag/stump - it went okay - it looked quite promising with a set of three stumps I reckon I'd have hit them a few times. This was over about 18-20 yards I reckon.

 

[macca]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Hey dave have you registered at SKW23 yet?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Hey dave have you registered at SKW23 yet?

Yeah did this afternoon at work, had a quick glance at it, but was put off by the apperance that the only way you seem to be able to communicate with him was via that 'Twatter' or whatever it's called. Have you had a look round it properly - is it useful in anyway?

 

[macca]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Yeah did this afternoon at work, had a quick glance at it, but was put off by the apperance that the only way you seem to be able to communicate with him was via that 'Twatter' or whatever it's called. Have you had a look round it properly - is it useful in anyway?

Have a closer look he is promising a portal to interact and answer FAQ questions soon . maybe we could bombard him for requests to make a full instruction dvd to sell in the shop section.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

we should get him to sign up on here

 

[shrek]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Yeah did this afternoon at work, had a quick glance at it, but was put off by the apperance that the only way you seem to be able to communicate with him was via that 'Twatter' or whatever it's called. Have you had a look round it properly - is it useful in anyway?

first when i found out that he joined twitter, I was excited and looked around. But turns out it was nothing more than a propaganda for that wretched IPL. Warne was a PR artist there sucking up to everyone connected to it.
Which sort of put me off from joining any Warne related websites for a while

 

[Jim2109]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

first when i found out that he joined twitter, I was excited and looked around. But turns out it was nothing more than a propaganda for that wretched IPL. Warne was a PR artist there sucking up to everyone connected to it.
Which sort of put me off from joining any Warne related websites for a while

it does look very much like his new website is more about plugging his sponsors than anything else. obviously he also has his charity thing as well. in terms of useful cricket wisdom we will wait and see, but id love to see him answering questions from fellow leg spinners!!

in fairness though, if i was a retired sportsman id have better things to do than answer questions all day long. he does his bit by doing masterclasses during commentary, etc. ultimately he will probably write a book on the subject, but i dont reckon that will come for another decade or so yet. you look at other pros who have done it, and its usually when they are 50+.

for now it would just be awesome to get some personal interaction with him, and answers to very specific individual questions every now and again. but thats above and beyond what your average "retired" sportsman would be offering. hes under no obligation to share his wealth of knowledge, it would just be amazing if he does.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter I can't see him doing anything significant in the way of a book on the Philpott/Grimmett kind of scale for some years yet. He's too busy driving around in his Bugatti Veron playing poker and playing in the IPL. We'll just have to look out for the odd televised Gems that he does.

Here's a question for Macca and anyone else that advocates the throwing of the ball up against a wall underarm as practice. If you do this with the Leg break where are you expecting to see it spin, because when I'm doing it the ball spins and forces the ball in a very steep downwards direction - is that right?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Had a good hour working with the Biggun tonight, initially over 15 yards but after about 1/2 an hour I got it up to 18 yards and stayed there. At 18 yards everything was working - line, length variations in flight and turn and it was turning a lot more than any of my other bowling techniques. For some reason it was just working exceptionally well - but only over the 18 yards. I'm going to try and commit to this for a while because it was so successful tonight and maybe I might be able to suss it out. But I know from previous experiences I go out the next night and it's gone.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

if its working over short distances but not 22 yards then the problem is seam angle. the extra pace/energy required to propel the ball those extra yards results in your wrist angle changing at the point of release (either as a function of a faster arm, or because your weight transfer is not the same) and thus the seam tends to slant backwards. so the ball lands on the face and not the seam, and thus struggles to grip.

personally i find that if i bowl off of zero run-up then i place my front foot about shoulders width ahead of me, then rock forwards over it. when i take my fastest run-up, that stride becomes very large in order to support the extra weight transfer whilst retaining balance, and consequently my body weight is further back at the point of release. when im bowling well, it is generally because ive got my rhythm and timing right, and i get my weight transferred earlier in the action. the ball always spins hard, whether it turns round corners is merely a function of where the seam is when it hits the pitch. as youve seen, i get drift pretty much every ball, yet only about 10% turn big.

hence my bowling from a stand still is about 95% consistent (in both accuracy AND turn), whereas my proper bowling is probably more like 60%. of course my proper bowling is also about 30-50% faster, spins harder, and moves all over the place in flight.

you probably just need to replicate the weight transfer and release posture in order to get it working over 22 yards. its easier said than done though.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

if its working over short distances but not 22 yards then the problem is seam angle. the extra pace/energy required to propel the ball those extra yards results in your wrist angle changing at the point of release (either as a function of a faster arm, or because your weight transfer is not the same) and thus the seam tends to slant backwards. so the ball lands on the face and not the seam, and thus struggles to grip.

personally i find that if i bowl off of zero run-up then i place my front foot about shoulders width ahead of me, then rock forwards over it. when i take my fastest run-up, that stride becomes very large in order to support the extra weight transfer whilst retaining balance, and consequently my body weight is further back at the point of release. when im bowling well, it is generally because ive got my rhythm and timing right, and i get my weight transferred earlier in the action. the ball always spins hard, whether it turns round corners is merely a function of where the seam is when it hits the pitch. as youve seen, i get drift pretty much every ball, yet only about 10% turn big.

hence my bowling from a stand still is about 95% consistent (in both accuracy AND turn), whereas my proper bowling is probably more like 60%. of course my proper bowling is also about 30-50% faster, spins harder, and moves all over the place in flight.

you probably just need to replicate the weight transfer and release posture in order to get it working over 22 yards. its easier said than done though.

Absolutely! The increased effort seems to be detrimental to the wrist position. Your method for correcting it does that in effect mean you release the ball earlier e.g. at a vertical position 12.00 oclock rather than past the 12.00 position?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

Absolutely! The increased effort seems to be detrimental to the wrist position. Your method for correcting it does that in effect mean you release the ball earlier e.g. at a vertical position 12.00 oclock rather than past the 12.00 position?

i find that when im at full effort with my run-up, my front stride is larger, thus my weight is further back. there is a limit to how quickly i can move it forwards, so i end up releasing from further back, e.g. before vertical. the natural result is the ball being looped up, but i automatically compensate to keep the ball lower, and the result is the shorter length balls and occasional drag downs that you witnessed. although those are also the result when i get my timing wrong and have my weight too far forwards. so you can see my action is quite sensitive to timing and rhythm.

remember how my leading arm used to be really low and horizontal? well that was a natural compensation for this issue. now i achieve it by keeping my arm upright, but not too upright, and timing my weight transfer into my delivery stride so that im onto the front foot sooner than i normally would be. Liz Ward wanted me to get up onto my toes earlier as well to alleviate stress on my lower leg, but i havent managed this yet, my weight is still too far back, even through my rotation.

i also experiment a lot with my wrist angle at the point of release. often i will cock it back to compensate as well, so that even if my action isnt working, i can still get the seam vertical. ultimately the problem lies in the weight transfer though.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

i find that when im at full effort with my run-up, my front stride is larger, thus my weight is further back. there is a limit to how quickly i can move it forwards, so i end up releasing from further back, e.g. before vertical. the natural result is the ball being looped up, but i automatically compensate to keep the ball lower, and the result is the shorter length balls and occasional drag downs that you witnessed. although those are also the result when i get my timing wrong and have my weight too far forwards. so you can see my action is quite sensitive to timing and rhythm.

remember how my leading arm used to be really low and horizontal? well that was a natural compensation for this issue. now i achieve it by keeping my arm upright, but not too upright, and timing my weight transfer into my delivery stride so that im onto the front foot sooner than i normally would be. Liz Ward wanted me to get up onto my toes earlier as well to alleviate stress on my lower leg, but i havent managed this yet, my weight is still too far back, even through my rotation.

i also experiment a lot with my wrist angle at the point of release. often i will cock it back to compensate as well, so that even if my action isnt working, i can still get the seam vertical. ultimately the problem lies in the weight transfer though.

It's struck me last night that there only had to be a tiny variation in the timing of the release and what was intended to be a leg break turned into a straight ball. Then speeding up the release probaly made the timing more critical and with the later release I was then producing wrong uns and yet wasn't doing anything obvious with the wrist position, the wrist position was being adversely effected by virtue of it's position through the arc - e.g. early seemed to create a leg break, marginally passed vertical produce a straight ball and past vertical the wrong un. As far as I was aware for most part I was able to maintain a consistent wrist shape through the flick.

I'm ill at the minute seems I may have vertigo which isn't going to help with my bowling so not sure when I'll be able to get back to it.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: The Big Leg-Break

The vertigo if that's what it is seems to have diminished somewhat and I've had a bowl tonight, got it going over 22 yards with a bit of turn, but noticed that if there is some rough it's then that you get it to really turn. It's not ready yet but it looks promising, I'm going to add it in to my usual bowling practice so that I bowl my normal leg-break and then do 50% of these and see how it goes.