The Front Arm With The Front Leg.

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by TomBowler97, Sep 22, 2015.

Put it out there
  1. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    If the front arm is to the side of the your head, is the front foot facing straight?

    If the front arm is in line with your head, is the front foot facing towards fine leg?

    Which is more beneficial?
     
  2. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    At what stage of the action Tom - and are you talking about the leading arm? Have you looked at the Beau Casson video here if it's the leading arm?
     
  3. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I don't fully understand the question. But I am coming to like the idea of planting the front foot towards fine leg. My belief is that it is a more comfortable position to drive the rotation.
     
  4. Liz Ward

    Liz Ward Well-Known Member

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    If you are talking about the back foot Tom [right foot for right hand bowler] then yes.

    The most beneficial is the one that is most natural to you.

    If you ARE talking about front foot contact, then your arm should not be near your head.
     
  5. Liz Ward

    Liz Ward Well-Known Member

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    That 'sounds' logical boogiespinner but is not biomecanically sound... although could be injury free if you are fully side on.

    Rotating on the front foot is hugely important but many spinners set TOO much store on the degree of rotation, which is a red herring. The one thing I have noticed from the videos is lack of power. You should be looking to thoracic mobility for this!
     
  6. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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  7. Liz Ward

    Liz Ward Well-Known Member

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    Hi Tom,

    Could you link me to your latest video and could you please confirm whether or not you have a statement of dyspraxia; my advice would be different if so.

    However, you are looking in the wrong place. I understand your concern but this may not be an issue if you stopped closing down your action at the base; get the feet right first, then work your way up. I am still a little interested in why your lower half thinks you are bowling offspin!

    Liz
     
  8. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Sure, its here! There are plenty of bowling videos to look at! And no I do not have any form of dyspraxia!
    The bottom link is super slow motion of the last ball in the first video!

    I would recommend watching the video on Youtube for quality reasons!

    @Liz Ward


     
  9. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    With all due respect Liz I think that is nonsense, and you can easily verify that Shane Warne plants his front foot significantly square, and I suggest that many other great legspinners plant their front foot to fine leg or squarer.
     
  10. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Should my front foot be in line with my back foot, instead of crossed over? Is this messing up the alignment? I have also been thinking about reducing the height of my bound, as I think I am losing momentum in my run up with it.
     
  11. Liz Ward

    Liz Ward Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely Tom! :D ... or slightly to the left... and your back leg should 'kick' through straight and not come around in an arc.

    Again... absolutely!


    Tom, usually loose joints are often [but not always] attributed to dyspraxia. Spin bowling is tailor made for this condition and, in the recreational sport, make the best spinners... one of the reasons you find such good spinners on the subcontinent!

    However, being hypermobile in the wrists is also good for spinning but unfortunately almost impossible to coach unless you understand the mechanics of the condition. You will find most coaches Level 3 and above will not even attempt to coach it... they know better! I don't make a habit of interjecting with the recreational sport but if you like, pm me your email address and we will see what we can do for you.

    Out of curiosity, how is your off spin?
     
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  12. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Crossed over is undoubtedly sound.

    I believe for two reasons - one, it brings the front foot inline with the bowling arm's trajectory, so the arm will come straight over the front foot without having to make an adjustment. This would seem to be a good thing. The second reason is that it sets up a more powerful rotation.

    whatever my reasoning, one can look at any of the great spin bowlers. Warne - heavily crossed. MacGill - slightly crossed over. Qadir - moderately crossed. Tahir - heavily crossed. Shah - heavily crossed. Kumble - heavily crossed. Mushtaq - heavily crossed. Richie Benaud - heavily crossed.

    the only exception I've found among legspinners so far is Clarrie Grimmett who seems to be pretty straight.

    I don't think you have anything amiss with your feet alignment.

    Not sure what level of bound is right for you but I'd do as you feel most comfortable.
     
  13. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Bound - I'm coming around to the idea that you need to nail the run-in and bound first and foremost and then build up from there. It's like laying the foundations for a house, you might build a million dollar house with all mod cons and fittings, but if the foundations are inadequate you'll be doing remedial work all your life (As I have). Go back to the MacGill video and the Glen McGrath video and make sure you get that part right before you go on to look at the rest I would say now. Does that make sense to everyone else? We know you can flick the ball out of the hand and put spin on it and carry on doing the drills for that, but, if your not sure about the bound, run-in and action through the crease, get that right first surely?
     
  14. leftie600

    leftie600 Active Member

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    I think what's she's saying is that to have a perfect action to propel the ball down the other end you would not have the front foot pointing toward fine leg. This is true but as we all know legspin is a balance between imparting side spin and propelling the ball straight, because of this most legspinners find that this balance is best met with the foot pointing to fine leg (or at least the legside of straight).
     
  15. The Edge Of Willow

    The Edge Of Willow Member

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    This feels wrong to me. Sidespin comes from wrist position and energy in the action. To me it feels like energy used to propel the ball straight, if bowled correctly, would be transferred to side-spin in the action. If this is true, I don't think it makes sense to have your front leg crossed over. Wouldn't it close-up your action direct energy away the direction you are trying to spin it? (i.e. towards the leg-side, rather than going with the wrist towards the off)?
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2015
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  16. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I don't know leftie600. I am interested to hear contributions from Liz and wish she posted more: but I think she could be a little less dismissive of other people's suggestions and thoughts. I'm also concerned that advice she is giving to a young legspinner on three counts here are questionable 'corrections'. Planting the front foot inside, pointing it towards fine leg or squarer, and bringing the back foot around in an arc are practices to be found in most of the great legspinners and Warne does all three. I think we can safely say that these practices are not incorrect.
     
  17. leftie600

    leftie600 Active Member

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    The key is energy in the pivot, there's a balance between the transfer of how far you pivot and how much extra spin you get. For quite a few legspinners a slightly closed front foot finds that balance.
     
  18. leftie600

    leftie600 Active Member

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    I agree. Don't think Liz is out and out dismissing it though.
     
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  19. Max Andrews

    Max Andrews Member

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Put it out there