The Off-Spinning Flipper

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someblokecalleddave

someblokecalleddave

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The Off-Spinning Flipper

YouTube - Flipper Variation No 3 The Off Spinning Flipper

Because of my tragic start to the season, I'm now searching around for different solutions to my bowling problems and I've turned to the Flippers just to get away from my Leg Breaks and see if the break has any effect on my Leg Breaks in the longer run.

But having bowled primarily Flippers and giving the off-spinning variation another go I'm warming to it. If you look at the video clip I suggest bowling it straight out of the hand but there's some variation on tilting the ball backwards and forwards through the delivery. I'm also finding that as with my conventional back-spinning Flippers I'm able to bowl this ball considerably faster than my leg breaks.

Anyone esle working with this at all?
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

i still play with it. not found the consistency i had with it at the end of last season, but ive not really spent much time on it. i really need to get back to practicing, lately ive bowled more in matches than in practice sessions so my bowling hasnt really progressed much. although in terms of match situations it has come along massively.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

Been practicing this a lot of late along with the Top-Spinner and the back-spinner. I've gone full circle on my opinions on these variations. The conventional back-spinner over the last couple of year I've been saying that it's just too much like a conventional seam up ball and I find it even as a variation not that effective. But the last week or two I've been bowling the Top-Spinner and the out of the front of the hand 'Off-Spinner' and more and more I'm warming to the supposed 'Off-Spinner'. I say supposed because when you bowl it logically the spin should make the ball turn towards the RH bat if bowled down the off-side - but I'm finding that it seems to be a bit erratic going either way depending on how you tilt the ball. It may be and I'm begiining to think this is the case .... that what I assume is happening with my hand above my head as I bowl isn't actually happening because this ball drifts into the batsman and turns away like a leg-break sometimes? If it's tossed up loopy it sometimes almost stops when it hits the ground and other times it does act like an off-break, but most importantly is the fact that no matter how I bowl it fast or loopy I seem to have amazing accuracy with this ball and it's possibly the ball I can bowl the fastest and also the slowest and still retain a very high level of accuracy. So maybe come this weekend I'll try bowling all the overs I'm given using the Top-spinning flipper and the off-spinning flipper and see how it goes?

I'll knock up a new video as well using these variations.....
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

Revisiting this, I wonder if it is apt to call it a flipper in the first place? There is hardly any backspin on it. All of the spin on it (whatever be the method used to impart it ) is in the sideways direction similar to a fastish off break.
I also believe that instead of staying low, it should bounce at the normal height like a purely sidespun leg break ?
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

shrek;400983 said:
Revisiting this, I wonder if it is apt to call it a flipper in the first place? There is hardly any backspin on it. All of the spin on it (whatever be the method used to impart it ) is in the sideways direction similar to a fastish off break.
I also believe that instead of staying low, it should bounce at the normal height like a purely sidespun leg break ?
Click to expand...

I suppose we refer to it as a flipper because it uses the same type of finger clicking spin to produce it.

Grimmett first calls his mystery ball his "flipper off-break" and this is the ball he thought might work best. The backspinning flipper that warne and benaud took up came later.

This " offbreak flipper" was the ball he kept warning batsman he had; a wrongun that looked a lot like a legbreak because the bowlers palm faced the batsman. Cec Pepper bowled this ball too and called it one of his 'flippers'. Different wrist positions, same coin tossing "flip"
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

the flipper is the finger action rather than the delivery. the backspinning flipper is simply known as "the Flipper" because nobody else in first class cricket has claimed to bowl any of the other types of flipper in probably 50+ years. had Warne bowled an off-spun flipper as well then the names would probably be different (e.g. the Zooter, which wasnt called that prior to Warne as far as i know, but he had to differentiate between his backspinner and his sliders).

the off-spin flipper requires a very over-pronounced wrist position. wherever you think your wrist is at release point, its almost certainly not as far round as it seems. so what you think is perfect side-spin is actually usually mostly backspin. you are probably releasing at backspin, and then 5 degrees either side alters it between off spin or leg spin.

i over-pronounce my wrist, and that still only results in about 30 degs of side spin, but that is enough to make it turn back in by about 6" (i dont find the seam that often either with it). i also find that if i transfer my weight forwards onto my front foot earlier then i can get my wrist further around, and then i can generate much more side spin. i never caught it on camera, but im pretty sure at the end of last season when i really had the OSF working, i had overspin on it as well! and it was turning massively, as much as my leg break. i had a witness in one of the kids that plays for the club watching and he was amazed to see a leg spinner turning the ball more than all the off spinners with what he presumed to be a googly lol.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

shrek;400983 said:
Revisiting this, I wonder if it is apt to call it a flipper in the first place? There is hardly any backspin on it. All of the spin on it (whatever be the method used to impart it ) is in the sideways direction similar to a fastish off break.
I also believe that instead of staying low, it should bounce at the normal height like a purely sidespun leg break ?
Click to expand...

I reckon there's a fair bit of backspin have a look at this YouTube - Clarrie Grimmett Flipper Wrist spin bowling A I'm in agreement with the observations regarding whether it skids in low all the time, because sometimes it'll pop up viciously. Again with issues of whether it comes out of the hand in a way that you/I perceive, without a slow mo camera there's no real way of telling, but the different variations that I bowl all have distinctly different wrist positions but the same click of the fingers. As I said I'll knock up some video and maybe slow it down and see if we can see the spin direction and the seam presentation.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

the flipper can definitely generate good revs. this is a video of my off spinning flipper vs a leg break....
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Leg Break vs Off-Spinning Flipper - Overlaid Video Comparison

the revs arent that far off, maybe 10-20% less.

and a couple more flipper videos where you can see the rotation...

YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Flipper (slow motion)
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Off-Spinning Flipper (slow motion)

ive never captured a video of an off spinning flipper when it has actually turned big. i only had it working for a couple of sessions, and ive never figured out what i was doing right again. one day il recapture it.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

Jim2109;401052 said:
the flipper can definitely generate good revs. this is a video of my off spinning flipper vs a leg break....
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Leg Break vs Off-Spinning Flipper - Overlaid Video Comparison

the revs arent that far off, maybe 10-20% less.

and a couple more flipper videos where you can see the rotation...

YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Flipper (slow motion)
YouTube - Wrist Spin Bowling - Off-Spinning Flipper (slow motion)

ive never captured a video of an off spinning flipper when it has actually turned big. i only had it working for a couple of sessions, and ive never figured out what i was doing right again. one day il recapture it.
Click to expand...

It seems as though it's not a big turner - possibly because I'm bowling it flatter/faster, but if it hits some rough - that's a different matter, then it does do something.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

also you might not be putting as much side spin on it as you think. its also hard to keep the seam straight. and as you say, if its flatter and faster then its always going to struggle for turn. i bowl my OSF similarly to my leg break. i try to bowl my flipper very flat, although often it comes out flighted.
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

These Flipper variations that I'm working with increasingly at the minute are coming up with all sorts of surprises. The one that I describe as being the Off-spinning Flipper YouTube - Flipper Variation No 3 The Off Spinning Flipper is fast becoming my Favourite flipper variant along with the over-spinning flipper. Last night I had a bowl at a batsman and he was commenting on the drift (Or is it swing) that I was getting with consistent basis. The other thing I'm finding is that whereas I'm bowling this with every intention that it spins and produces off-spin the reverse seems to be the actuality. The ball therefore drifts into the batsman and then turns off the wicket like a leg-break. Kind of like Off-spin flipper-leg break syndrome which I'm liking! It's such a consistent aspect to this ball that I no longer refer to it as the Off-spinning Flipper but the Out of the front of the hand flipper. The truth be known I'm so confused as to my wrist and hand position on release that I can't say where my palm and wrist face. All I know is that big drift and a leg break at the end of it is a win win situation! I need to get that slow camera!
 
Re: The Off-Spinning Flipper

someblokecalleddave;401525 said:
These Flipper variations that I'm working with increasingly at the minute are coming up with all sorts of surprises. The one that I describe as being the Off-spinning Flipper YouTube - Flipper Variation No 3 The Off Spinning Flipper is fast becoming my Favourite flipper variant along with the over-spinning flipper. Last night I had a bowl at a batsman and he was commenting on the drift (Or is it swing) that I was getting with consistent basis. The other thing I'm finding is that whereas I'm bowling this with every intention that it spins and produces off-spin the reverse seems to be the actuality. The ball therefore drifts into the batsman and then turns off the wicket like a leg-break. Kind of like Off-spin flipper-leg break syndrome which I'm liking! It's such a consistent aspect to this ball that I no longer refer to it as the Off-spinning Flipper but the Out of the front of the hand flipper. The truth be known I'm so confused as to my wrist and hand position on release that I can't say where my palm and wrist face. All I know is that big drift and a leg break at the end of it is a win win situation! I need to get that slow camera!
Click to expand...

it sounds like you are bowling normal flippers Dave, the backspinning variety. youll be amazed at what your hand and wrist do through the delivery of the flipper. the natural motion of the hand always seems to revert to backspin, in the same way as most people revert to an overspun leg break when trying any of the round-the-loop leg break variations (unless they have googly syndrome, in which case top spin and googlies are the natural method).

in order to bowl the off spin flipper i have to put a huge amount of emphasis on my wrist, to the point where it is cocked so that the ball is almost touching my wrist on the fore-arm side (where all the veins are). the end result is that the wrist straightens at release, and you end up with mostly backspin and about 15 degrees of side spin, and it turns back in. if you got 30 degrees the other way (which is a fairly minimal adjustment) then it turns as a leg break.

the ideal way to bowl the OSF would be with overspin, but to achieve that you have to deliver the ball like a doosra, with the arm twisted at the elbow. this is how i pictured my own delivery in my head, and thought i was bowling with overspin. it was only once i video'd it that i realised how warped my concept was. what felt like it was being bowled with overspin, was almost entirely backspin with a small amount of side spin. even achieving complete side spin is hard because the fingers are working entirely against the forward motion of the arm. the release timing has to be perfect. its even harder than bowling a square leg break, which i am only able to do through months of practice of going around the loop. so in theory if you spent enough time on the flipper variations it may be possible to achieve the same outcome, with a tendancy to off spin and backspin, rather than leg spin and top spin as with the leg break.

the flipper action literally gives you the opposite side of the "loop" to the legspin action, which is why its potentially so useful! it is impossible to bowl a backspun or side-spun off break with the leg spin action for example, unless you are Murali. even the best Googlies are almost entirely top spin, achieving big turn depends solely on landing the ball on a clean seam. most people can only scramble the seam, Warne included, and youre always going to end up with inconsistent and small turn. so the OSF has potential to turn huge compared to the Googly, and with far better consistency. and despite logic and what some people might assume, the flippers are very hard to distinguish from the leg break from a batsmans viewpoint. i reckon i could even video them in slow motion, and if you couldnt see the seam on the ball youd still struggle to pick them. the thumb is the only real giveaway, and i defy any batsman to pick that accurately. theyll always be guessing.
 
No!funk192,
you are the experts.I am not just a kid.You are the ones who will teah me.There is no coach to tell me the art of wrist spin.I practise in my backyard.As my father is my coach.Still The art of wrist spin could be hard for him.Even he sees the big cricket and tells me all about.The problem is I am not able to eplode.
 
Shivam_ipl said:
No!funk192,
you are the experts.I am not just a kid.You are the ones who will teah me.There is no coach to tell me the art of wrist spin.I practise in my backyard.As my father is my coach.Still The art of wrist spin could be hard for him.Even he sees the big cricket and tells me all about.The problem is I am not able to eplode.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by eplode? Is it true that you are 13?

If indeed you are 13 then there is only a few more years till you've finished growing

Take some advice from the master Richie Benaud, where he talks about the wrongun/googly and flipper in regards to young kids trying to bowl them:



I'm sure that these forums will stay here for a long time, and even if it does get shut down I'm sure that experts like someblokecalledave will be online in some form. It's guess it's okay to research and ask on these forums, but as always it's still up to you. We can't stop you from trying things.
 
funk192 said:
I'm not sure what you mean by eplode? Is it true that you are 13?

If indeed you are 13 then there is only a few more years till you've finished growing

Take some advice from the master Richie Benaud, where he talks about the wrongun/googly and flipper in regards to young kids trying to bowl them:



I'm sure that these forums will stay here for a long time, and even if it does get shut down I'm sure that experts like someblokecalledave will be online in some form. It's guess it's okay to research and ask on these forums, but as always it's still up to you. We can't stop you from trying things.
Click to expand...


Shivam, the way that the spin is put on the ball with the finger click, is potentially damaging for the tendons/muscles that go from your fingers right up to the elbow. You may end up causing problems and get a condition called Golfers Elbow (Medial Epicondilitis). I would say as soon as you get any sense that you are stressing your tendons/muscles stop. Use a small lighter ball to practice with and build the muscles slowly using a tennis ball. But, that may still be damaging?
 
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