The Problem With My Slider

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Shivam_ipl

Shivam_ipl

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What is the reason that every ball dosent go the perfect.Sometimes it go slow,or it goes back spinning leg break.I know it goes from the front of the hand.I can bowl it very well,I get wickets at it as well.What should be your mind set when you go to bowl the slider.There are four fingers.Can your tell me from where the ball should be released.
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Shivam_ipl said:
What is the reason that every ball dosent go the perfect.Sometimes it go slow,or it goes back spinning leg break.I know it goes from the front of the hand.I can bowl it very well,I get wickets at it as well.What should be your mind set when you go to bowl the slider.There are four fingers.Can your tell me from where the ball should be released.
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shivam

I think 13 is not the right age to practice slider etc. reason: fingers are not well grown up/ strong.
by the way it is mainly middle finger and thumb sometimes u can do it with all four fingers & thumb.
 
Do you mean the Orthodox Back Spinner - or something else? If its something else you'll have to describe it in more detail and perhaps point us to an explanation of this 'Slider' delivery.;)
 
If its the Orthodox back-spinner its the conventional 2 up 2 down leg break grip or however you've modified that grip to suit your own bowling. It comes out of the back of your hand - not the front. You angle the wrist towards your self and spin the ball almost back into your body. Its a ridiculously difficult ball to bowl but Jenner bowls it beautifully.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/skills/7362779.stm see if you can see this, I know in some countries people can't access this, but here Jenner demo's 'Shane Warnes 5 deliveries' including the OBS which he refers to as the 'Slider' in this clip. I think at the time Warne was using the term 'Slider' for the OBS and anything else he was messing around with at the time that went on straight with little turn or bounce. I've seen subsequent videos of Jenner talking about the OBS in the context of Warnes bowling and he laughs about it being referred to as a 'Slider'.

With regards a ball called a slider you may want to consider this - http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2010/12/orthodox-back-spinner-slider-zooter.html
 
someblokecalleddave said:
If its the Orthodox back-spinner its the conventional 2 up 2 down leg break grip or however you've modified that grip to suit your own bowling. It comes out of the back of your hand - not the front. You angle the wrist towards your self and spin the ball almost back into your body. Its a ridiculously difficult ball to bowl but Jenner bowls it beautifully.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/skills/7362779.stm see if you can see this, I know in some countries people can't access this, but here Jenner demo's 'Shane Warnes 5 deliveries' including the OBS which he refers to as the 'Slider' in this clip. I think at the time Warne was using the term 'Slider' for the OBS and anything else he was messing around with at the time that went on straight with little turn or bounce. I've seen subsequent videos of Jenner talking about the OBS in the context of Warnes bowling and he laughs about it being referred to as a 'Slider'.

With regards a ball called a slider you may want to consider this - http://mpafirsteleven.blogspot.com/2010/12/orthodox-back-spinner-slider-zooter.html
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"When I asked him if he knew how to bowl a top-spinner through the front of his fingers he seemed surprised. He seemed even more bemused when I said Peter Philpott, the respected Australian leg-spinner of the 1960s, called it his "back spinning toppie". "

I would have been surprised too - bowling a top-spinner through the front of the fingers in completely impossible. Going on to then describe that delivery as a 'back spinning top spinner" is a complete contradiction in terms - its either a back spinner or a top spinner, it can't be both.

My 2 cents worth is that I consider there to be an important difference between a slider and an orthodox backspinner - a slider has a mixture of side spin and backspin and still drifts like a leg break and is harder to pick, whereas a straight backspinner just has backspin and is straight as a die and easy to pick. The exact mechanism of bowling the slider varies slightly, but then so does every other delivery.

Zooter is just a modern australianism, I'm not sure what they are referring to exactly but it doesn't really matter, most spinners - whether legbreak or offbreak just use the generic terms "stock ball", topspinner", "wrong'un", "slider" and "backspinner" as the main options and everyone knows what they mean.
 
adding to the confusion I may like to know from (@Dave)

conventional flipper by clicking the ball with thumb & 3rd finger, one can generate back spin maintaining seam position (may be easy for experts of finger). back spinning of ball can be created by forward movement of wrist (as Terry described) AND also by finger flicking where ball actually spin backwards.

same like this top spin can be generated by back of hand delivery showing back towards the batsman useing all the fingers except thumb together and also by finger expert (as described by Terry) where 2 to 4th finger rolls over seam showing back of hand towards off side.
 
SLA said:
"When I asked him if he knew how to bowl a top-spinner through the front of his fingers he seemed surprised. He seemed even more bemused when I said Peter Philpott, the respected Australian leg-spinner of the 1960s, called it his "back spinning toppie". "

I would have been surprised too - bowling a top-spinner through the front of the fingers in completely impossible. Going on to then describe that delivery as a 'back spinning top spinner" is a complete contradiction in terms - its either a back spinner or a top spinner, it can't be both.

My 2 cents worth is that I consider there to be an important difference between a slider and an orthodox backspinner - a slider has a mixture of side spin and backspin and still drifts like a leg break and is harder to pick, whereas a straight backspinner just has backspin and is straight as a die and easy to pick. The exact mechanism of bowling the slider varies slightly, but then so does every other delivery.

Zooter is just a modern australianism, I'm not sure what they are referring to exactly but it doesn't really matter, most spinners - whether legbreak or offbreak just use the generic terms "stock ball", topspinner", "wrong'un", "slider" and "backspinner" as the main options and everyone knows what they mean.
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My issue is a little Pedantic in that you should look for the Origins of the described delivery in order to find its truest description. With the 'Slider' and the 'Zooter' these terms are relatively new and have been somewhat bastardized over the last couple of decades possibly longer with the 'Slider'. The term 'Slider' increasingly seems to be used in the context of a delivery that has gone wrong or conistently comes out wrong - landing on the smooth surface of the ball instead of the seam and therefore goes straight on. There used to be a bloke on here called Jim and I think he was able to bowl the Big Leg Break which is on its way to becoming an orthodox back-spinner using Philpotts 'Round the Loop' theory, I think he noted that when his Big Leg Break went wrong e.g. too far round he'd produced a 'Slider'. It wasn't the OBS because the seam alignment was closer to the Big Leg Break than a pure OBS. The crux of my argument is that unless a professional protaganist puts pen to paper and describes explicitly what a Slider or a Zooter is, they are in essence still out there to be described and claimed - patented as such. For the life of me as yet I have found nothing written by a respected pro that describes what either the Slider or the Zooter are. Anecdotally they're out there, being used, but as my research has shown they're described in a variety of ways and we're not really able to pin them down. Where as the OBS is described explicitly in Philpotts seminal book 'The Art of Wrist Spin Bowling'.
 
highesteem1 said:
adding to the confusion I may like to know from (@Dave)

conventional flipper by clicking the ball with thumb & 3rd finger, one can generate back spin maintaining seam position (may be easy for experts of finger). back spinning of ball can be created by forward movement of wrist (as Terry described) AND also by finger flicking where ball actually spin backwards.

same like this top spin can be generated by back of hand delivery showing back towards the batsman useing all the fingers except thumb together and also by finger expert (as described by Terry) where 2 to 4th finger rolls over seam showing back of hand towards off side.
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If I understand you correctly yes. The flipper click action - provided you've got the wrist mobility can potentially put spin on the ball in all directions, but some of them are exceptionally difficult - nigh on impossible. PS I've made even more discoveries with regards the Flipper and will possibly discuss at some point in the future.
 
SLA said - My 2 cents worth is that I consider there to be an important difference between a slider and an orthodox backspinner - a slider has a mixture of side spin and backspin and still drifts like a leg break and is harder to pick, whereas a straight backspinner just has backspin and is straight as a die and easy to pick. The exact mechanism of bowling the slider varies slightly, but then so does every other delivery.

Yeah this pretty much is how some of the research i did describes the 'Slider'. Yeah pure back-spinning balls like the OBS and the Back-spinning flipper for my liking are too much like a medium pacers ball and are usually despatched in a Bread & Butter manner. I think they have to be used carefully when you're putting a lot of the pressure and you're psychologically on top of the batsman and you've bowled a lot of good Leg Breaks at varying speeds, pulling a back-spinner out of the hat in that context might be useful?
 
Shivam_ipl said:
What is the reason that every ball dosent go the perfect.Sometimes it go slow,or it goes back spinning leg break.I know it goes from the front of the hand.I can bowl it very well,I get wickets at it as well.What should be your mind set when you go to bowl the slider.There are four fingers.Can your tell me from where the ball should be released.
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Do you have your thumb on the ball or not on the ball for your slider as you release it ?

Answering your question, If by slider you mean the the wrist spun backspinner then the reason it goes awry is usually down to not getting the release right. It needs to be like the opposite of a topspinner if you know what i mean ?

A little off centre and you get the big slow leg break,which can spin a long way but slowly.

Mindset should be its a rare variation. And it should be used very sparingly. Usually on hard, bouncy, even glassy surfaces

Backspin is more for surprise, it's topspin you need. 99.9% of legspin bowling has to arrive at the batsman with a big dollop of topspin.

The best thing about the backspinner off the wrist is it is to some extent foolproof. Even if it goes wrong the resultant slow legbreak might get a wicket anyway. But you should go weeks and weeks of bowling legspin without even thinking about bowling one.
 
Try one of the other versions of the 'Slider' maybe? The one I like is the one where you hold the ball in the usual Leg Break grip, but you dont do any of the usual things - instead you run the fingers down the back of the ball like a seam bowler would and the seam comes out back-spinning over itself or scrambled, if it hits the seam its unpredicatable and if hits the smooth surface it skids through. You're also able to bowl it with a little more pace as well.
 
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