Thumb Grip For Legspinner ?

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macca

macca

Active Member
Thumb off or on the ball ?

I have always been in the camp of "on or off doesnt matter much, whatever works best". And personally I can spin a legbreak more without the thumb on the ball. As for a backspinner than there is no way I can bowl one with my thumb on the ball.

Flipper of course, you need the thumb on and some reckon a good batsman might pick your flipper easier if you have thumb off for your legbreak. If they could see that good then they could pick the flipper thumb difference on or off the ball anyway.

I was watching my son spinning the ball to himself whilst he was watching TV the other day. And clearly he was using his thumb to grip the ball. And that makes sense because I taught him from the Grimmett books and Old Grum says thumb on for the grip.

So I asked him to try without the thumb and straight away his revs dropped and seam scrambled.

Then he showed me how uses the thumb as an extra reference point to line the seam up and keep it upright (like Saradhy Krishnans coach told him) and the right distance from his palm. Not to close in or too far out.

But that is the grip. When he releases the thumb is off the ball. And Its the three fingers doing all the work. You can see it clearly with the backspinner. Like me he has his thumb well and truly off the ball for that.

Of course even off the ball it is still an important digit and you couldn't ratchet any tension in the fingers without a thumb.

Wrongun is different again because he takes the thumb off and seems to put it back on for an instant as he releases it !
 
I think ultimately it is the last digit to touch the ball as it is released that applies the spin. You just want the application of pressure onto one particular spot of the ball at the exact moment of release, and that is applied most accurately and powerfully with the pressure of the end of one finger - try to release the ball off a couple of finger simultaneously and you will sonn find the spin becomes erratic or disappears altogether (and the ball will probably fly out towards point).

The rest of the fingers and thumb just act to ensure the ball is in the exact right position at the release point so that final single finger pressure is in the perfect direction.
 
macca said:
Thumb off or on the ball ?

I have always been in the camp of "on or off doesnt matter much, whatever works best". And personally I can spin a legbreak more without the thumb on the ball. As for a backspinner than there is no way I can bowl one with my thumb on the ball.

Flipper of course, you need the thumb on and some reckon a good batsman might pick your flipper easier if you have thumb off for your legbreak. If they could see that good then they could pick the flipper thumb difference on or off the ball anyway.

I was watching my son spinning the ball to himself whilst he was watching TV the other day. And clearly he was using his thumb to grip the ball. And that makes sense because I taught him from the Grimmett books and Old Grum says thumb on for the grip.

So I asked him to try without the thumb and straight away his revs dropped and seam scrambled.

Then he showed me how uses the thumb as an extra reference point to line the seam up and keep it upright (like Saradhy Krishnans coach told him) and the right distance from his palm. Not to close in or too far out.

But that is the grip. When he releases the thumb is off the ball. And Its the three fingers doing all the work. You can see it clearly with the backspinner. Like me he has his thumb well and truly off the ball for that.

Of course even off the ball it is still an important digit and you couldn't ratchet any tension in the fingers without a thumb.

Wrongun is different again because he takes the thumb off and seems to put it back on for an instant as he releases it !
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Interesting, do you think this has something to do with strength in the fingers then? That perhaps a little support is needed to keep the ball in the right position to compensate for the fingers? Something which might only be a problem for young bowlers or beginners? and then perhaps becomes natural and habitual through practice even when not strictly necessary.
 
GoldenArm said:
Interesting, do you think this has something to do with strength in the fingers then? That perhaps a little support is needed to keep the ball in the right position to compensate for the fingers? Something which might only be a problem for young bowlers or beginners? and then perhaps becomes natural and habitual through practice even when not strictly necessary.
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Personally my thumb rests on the ball lightly, but doesn't seem to do much. I'm just going out for a bowl now, I'll have a look when I'm out there and report back.
 
GoldenArm said:
Interesting, do you think this has something to do with strength in the fingers then? That perhaps a little support is needed to keep the ball in the right position to compensate for the fingers? Something which might only be a problem for young bowlers or beginners? and then perhaps becomes natural and habitual through practice even when not strictly necessary.
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Exactly what I suspected. Smaller hand means the thumb is naturally going to sit there on the ball. It causes tension for him not to have it on the ball.

But he reckons he takes his thumb off early in his action anyway when he cocks his wrist so he really only uses the thumb to set the ball in his hand to start his grip.
 
macca said:
Exactly what I suspected. Smaller hand means the thumb is naturally going to sit there on the ball. It causes tension for him not to have it on the ball.

But he reckons he takes his thumb off early in his action anyway when he cocks his wrist so he really only uses the thumb to set the ball in his hand to start his grip.
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I always bowl with my thumb on the ball but it has little to do in the actual bowling of the ball, It's just there to stop the ball wobbling about as I run in and roll my arm over. I have quite a relaxed grip though.
 
@ Macca I found that you get the optimum about of pure side spin with the thumb on the ball. You know when you ball a perfect leg break. As far as I am concerned I get a very good feeling with my grip when I bowl a big leg break. My thumb rests on the ball with a slight angle and my grip is 2 fingers down 2 Fingers up the ball sits in between.The seam is perfectly perpendicular and the Thumb rest on a slight angle.
 
Saradhy Krishnan said:
@ Macca I found that you get the optimum about of pure side spin with the thumb on the ball. You know when you ball a perfect leg break. As far as I am concerned I get a very good feeling with my grip when I bowl a big leg break. My thumb rests on the ball with a slight angle and my grip is 2 fingers down 2 Fingers up the ball sits in between.The seam is perfectly perpendicular and the Thumb rest on a slight angle.
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http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...e-watched-by-umpire-billy-news-photo/56469808

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...action-during-a-australian-news-photo/1002059

check out the grip the position of the seam gives away that he is trying to bowl a big leg break
 
Agreed young kids start their legspin grip with Thumb + on seam so that they can grip th ball comfortably.

I am trying to express it in a diff way. one gp of Leggies used to bowl with predominant use of WRIST & minimal use of Fingers.They release the ball without fanning out the fingers much. Another gp use fingers strongly (flicking of Fingers more). in general the leggies who are in 2nd gp tends to do more round arm action than top (overthe head) arm while overhead spinners try to do wrist activity more than other gp. If a leggie rests his Thumb & mound of Thumb on seam line, he can impart more sidespin by sliding down the mound/ thumb along with seam lne. BUT, Again saying BUT, this use of thumb/mound become a minor activity for the gp of bowlers who use wrist strongly (Gp One), becoz the wrist movemnt used to help seam line sliding movement for imparting the spin.
 
macca said:
Exactly what I suspected. Smaller hand means the thumb is naturally going to sit there on the ball. It causes tension for him not to have it on the ball.

But he reckons he takes his thumb off early in his action anyway when he cocks his wrist so he really only uses the thumb to set the ball in his hand to start his grip.
Click to expand...

On the same note - there are leg spinners who tend to generate all of their revs by using just the wrist. These leggies don't have the bleeding finger/callous problem at all.
Then there are spinners who will rip it off the spinning finger (like an offie would) and greater the amount of friction, the more it bleeds, greater the number of revs you get.

If you really want to go the distance, you should combine the two i.e cock your wrist and unfurl it, and at the same time rip the ball off your spinning finger. Unfortunately, this is also much harder to control, confirming that there is no such thing as a free lunch. :)
 
shrek said:
On the same note - there are leg spinners who tend to generate all of their revs by using just the wrist. These leggies don't have the bleeding finger/callous problem at all.
Then there are spinners who will rip it off the spinning finger (like an offie would) and greater the amount of friction, the more it bleeds, greater the number of revs you get.

If you really want to go the distance, you should combine the two i.e cock your wrist and unfurl it, and at the same time rip the ball off your spinning finger. Unfortunately, this is also much harder to control, confirming that there is no such thing as a free lunch. :)
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Yeah that is true. In Bradmans "art of cricket" he calls legspinners who dont use their wrists 'flippers'. He reckoned those legbreak bowlers who use their fingers and and not their wrists are usually more accurate but spin a lot less.

Bradman calls a type of bowler a flipper and he calls grimmetts flipper a "flicker" in his books! He only starts calling grimmetts mystery ball a flipper after benaud starts bowling it.
 
macca said:
Exactly what I suspected. Smaller hand means the thumb is naturally going to sit there on the ball. It causes tension for him not to have it on the ball.

But he reckons he takes his thumb off early in his action anyway when he cocks his wrist so he really only uses the thumb to set the ball in his hand to start his grip.
Click to expand...
Personally I use the 'Armstrong grip' as laid out in the The Bowlers Art, I have had no restrictions at all in going round the loop and it is debatable that I am using less revs. What I have found is that the thumb allows better control and revs for my googly and back spinner if anything, from what I understand Kumble also used his thumb for his googly.

If there's any issue I found with the thumb being on the ball, it's that when bowling a topspinner the thumb can 'hook' the ball leading to a duffed legbreak rather than a topspinner...but this is usually a result of not enough practice.
 
highesteem1 said:
Agreed young kids start their legspin grip with Thumb + on seam so that they can grip th ball comfortably.

I am trying to express it in a diff way. one gp of Leggies used to bowl with predominant use of WRIST & minimal use of Fingers.They release the ball without fanning out the fingers much. Another gp use fingers strongly (flicking of Fingers more). in general the leggies who are in 2nd gp tends to do more round arm action than top (overthe head) arm while overhead spinners try to do wrist activity more than other gp. If a leggie rests his Thumb & mound of Thumb on seam line, he can impart more sidespin by sliding down the mound/ thumb along with seam lne. BUT, Again saying BUT, this use of thumb/mound become a minor activity for the gp of bowlers who use wrist strongly (Gp One), becoz the wrist movemnt used to help seam line sliding movement for imparting the spin.
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I haven't actually bowled as I'm in a wheelchair; I do, however, practice tossing the ball around to replicate different deliveries.
One of the consequences of my disability is small stature (including small hands) and fairly loose joints. I found that, as you suggest, I am more of a finger-dominant spinner as I flick the ball, and that, if I remove my thumb from my action, the seam turns clockwise during the release as my grip "squeezes" the ball due to my small hands, and, as a result, it is scrambled as I release.
 
chrisbell said:
I haven't actually bowled as I'm in a wheelchair; I do, however, practice tossing the ball around to replicate different deliveries.
One of the consequences of my disability is small stature (including small hands) and fairly loose joints. I found that, as you suggest, I am more of a finger-dominant spinner as I flick the ball, and that, if I remove my thumb from my action, the seam turns clockwise during the release as my grip "squeezes" the ball due to my small hands, and, as a result, it is scrambled as I release.
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It will be good if u post ur bowling video for further discussion :)
 
I'm practicing with a more fingery action which iincludes more inclusion of the thumb, but I'm bowling more Top-Spinners, kind of in part due to some of the things Stuart Macgill has said and suggested to me. A recent comment was that he said that Warne had incredibly strong fingers that helped put more spin on the ball.
 
Here's a few snaps of my grip that I've also posted on the other board:

1. Grip - Batsman's view
Grip - Batsman view.jpg

2. Grip - Side view (if this was the batsman's view then this would be my OBS)

Grip - Side view.jpg

3. Release - Batsman's view

Release - Batsman view.jpg

4. Release - Side view (not the greatest shot but notice the stress between the middle finger and thumb)

Release - Side view.jpg
 
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