Top spinner, flipper and slider.

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abdul qadir junior

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Top spinner, flipper and slider.

Hi everyone i'm new on here. Really like the site. I'm a wrist spinner who bowls leg breaks and wrongun's but i want more info on the flipper, slider and top spinner. My questions are:

(1) Should the wrist be cocked for a top spinner? i dont cock the wrist as i can't keep the seam straight.
(2) when i try the top spinner it bounces more but it turns slightly like a leg break. Why is this?
(3) is it essential to use the wrist for a top spinner or can i only use the fingers?

I can't bowl the flipper at all and i think i can do slider but with less control.

(4) Is there any good step by step guide to the flipper and slider? Online video?

(5) Anyone read "the art of wrist spin" by Peter phillpot? has it got a step by step guide to the slider and flipper?

(6) Is there any good coaching for wrist spin for seniors? i'm 28 now. Is there a chance terry jenner helping?:D

Answers appreciated.
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

1) not sure how you mean, but the wrist should be rotated around. basically youve got your leg break where the palm of your hand ends up pretty much facing your face for a 90 degree seam.

for the top spinner you rotate the wrist 90 degrees so that the palm of your hand ends up facing the batsman. you literally turn the whole action through 90 degrees. thats the easiest way i can think to explain it.

2) this is a simple one, your wrist isnt turned enough. youre still bowling with side spin, not 100% overspin. the result is that you bowl a leg break that also bounces higher. on most pitches the overspun leg break is the most consistent and effective as it will turn most consistently on surfaces that arent perfect for spin. whereas the 90 degree leg break will often skid straight through if it doesnt grip.

3) id say the wrist is essential for all of the wrist spin deliveries (hence the name lol). although different people have different techniques. use whatever works for you, but if you use your wrist in your leg breaks, then use it in your top spinner as well. just turn the whole action around 90 degrees as i described above.

4) yes there is, someblokecalleddave on here has made some excellent videos, and has literally this weekend just made a video series about the different types of flipper!!
YouTube - someblokecalleddave1's Channel

5) yes i own a copy, its a must have for anyone that bowls leg spin IMO. the explanations on how to bowl the deliveries arent particularly well described from a visual sense, and there are no illustrations. however Philpott has an "around the loop" methodology which will help you a great deal in understanding the top spinner and slider variations!! so id advise buying a copy and reading it 10 times cover to cover lol

6) what country do you live in? coaching for club level players seems fairly sporadic, the likes of Jenner and Philpott tend to coach youngsters with potential to be professional players, and do lots of seminars for pros, as well as advising at county and international level. im not sure you can get coaching from them, or that it would be particularly helpful in a short session. youll get just as much from watching the videos on youtube.

the club i play for has a good coach who seems to know how to teach leg spin. he teaches the kids primarily, but his methods look to work very well. hes the sort of coach id go to with a problem and ask him to look at my action and make suggestions. i think thats the best you can do as a leggie in England as there are so few experts here, leg spin is a relatively unknown art, prior to Shane Warne barely anyone even knew what it was lol. in other countries maybe it is different for coaching. the other problem is that leg spin is very unique to the individual, no 2 people have the same action, but can achieve the same results. so you have to learn to self analyse your bowling i think to really make progress. get some videos and post them on here, theres lots of people with very good advice.

also, have a look at the Wrist Spin Bowling threads..

http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/t58854/
http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/t70231/

there is a wealth of information in there, even if it is about 3 weeks worth of reading lol. theres also lots of detailed descriptions of the progress of most of the leg spinners that use this forum, and how they are getting on with developing their bowling. so im sure theres some useful information to be gleaned from it all.
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

Jim2109;364086 said:
1) not sure how you mean, but the wrist should be rotated around. basically youve got your leg break where the palm of your hand ends up pretty much facing your face for a 90 degree seam.

for the top spinner you rotate the wrist 90 degrees so that the palm of your hand ends up facing the batsman. you literally turn the whole action through 90 degrees. thats the easiest way i can think to explain it.

2) this is a simple one, your wrist isnt turned enough. youre still bowling with side spin, not 100% overspin. the result is that you bowl a leg break that also bounces higher. on most pitches the overspun leg break is the most consistent and effective as it will turn most consistently on surfaces that arent perfect for spin. whereas the 90 degree leg break will often skid straight through if it doesnt grip.

3) id say the wrist is essential for all of the wrist spin deliveries (hence the name lol). although different people have different techniques. use whatever works for you, but if you use your wrist in your leg breaks, then use it in your top spinner as well. just turn the whole action around 90 degrees as i described above.

4) yes there is, someblokecalleddave on here has made some excellent videos, and has literally this weekend just made a video series about the different types of flipper!!
YouTube - someblokecalleddave1's Channel

5) yes i own a copy, its a must have for anyone that bowls leg spin IMO. the explanations on how to bowl the deliveries arent particularly well described from a visual sense, and there are no illustrations. however Philpott has an "around the loop" methodology which will help you a great deal in understanding the top spinner and slider variations!! so id advise buying a copy and reading it 10 times cover to cover lol

6) what country do you live in? coaching for club level players seems fairly sporadic, the likes of Jenner and Philpott tend to coach youngsters with potential to be professional players, and do lots of seminars for pros, as well as advising at county and international level. im not sure you can get coaching from them, or that it would be particularly helpful in a short session. youll get just as much from watching the videos on youtube.

the club i play for has a good coach who seems to know how to teach leg spin. he teaches the kids primarily, but his methods look to work very well. hes the sort of coach id go to with a problem and ask him to look at my action and make suggestions. i think thats the best you can do as a leggie in England as there are so few experts here, leg spin is a relatively unknown art, prior to Shane Warne barely anyone even knew what it was lol. in other countries maybe it is different for coaching. the other problem is that leg spin is very unique to the individual, no 2 people have the same action, but can achieve the same results. so you have to learn to self analyse your bowling i think to really make progress. get some videos and post them on here, theres lots of people with very good advice.

also, have a look at the Wrist Spin Bowling threads..

http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/t58854/
http://www.bigcricket.com/forum/t70231/

there is a wealth of information in there, even if it is about 3 weeks worth of reading lol. theres also lots of detailed descriptions of the progress of most of the leg spinners that use this forum, and how they are getting on with developing their bowling. so im sure theres some useful information to be gleaned from it all.
Click to expand...


Thanks for ur reply. Excellent post. I'm from uk. i'll post some videos. I'll check the flipper videos now.
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

Abdul, if you post all your comments and questions in the Wrist Spin thread (Part 2) you'll get more people commenting and it keeps all the Wrist Spin stuff in one place and we wont have to go searching for it all over the place. I don't know what the moderators think of that but I get the feeling the bigger the thread the more people find it on the internet and get involved.

It looks like they've closed the main wrist spin thread for some reason?
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

someblokecalleddave;364100 said:
Abdul, if you post all your comments and questions in the Wrist Spin thread (Part 2) you'll get more people commenting and it keeps all the Wrist Spin stuff in one place and we wont have to go searching for it all over the place. I don't know what the moderators think of that but I get the feeling the bigger the thread the more people find it on the internet and get involved.

It looks like they've closed the main wrist spin thread for some reason?
Click to expand...

ok no probs mate. Any vids on the slider coming up mate?
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

Yeah - but Jim you've not mentioned one of the Flippers you've shown in the video clips is one of the most difficult to bowl (The Offbreak Flipper), so in the short term abdul learn the normal back-spinning Flipper first if you're going to try the Flipper. One other thing if you're under 18 you're advised not to bowl the Flipper anyway as it may damage your tendons see Golfer's Elbow (Medial Epicondylitis)
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

someblokecalleddave;368628 said:
Yeah - but Jim you've not mentioned one of the Flippers you've shown in the video clips is one of the most difficult to bowl (The Offbreak Flipper), so in the short term abdul learn the normal back-spinning Flipper first if you're going to try the Flipper. One other thing if you're under 18 you're advised not to bowl the Flipper anyway as it may damage your tendons see Golfer's Elbow (Medial Epicondylitis)
Click to expand...

the one linked to is a conventional back spinner. the off spinner in the other clip pretty much is as well, i didnt get it quite right.

the off spinner is significantly different in wrist angle and release, and is definitely harder to bowl as you say.
 
Re: Top spinner, flipper and slider.

someblokecalleddave;368639 said:
Near on impossible!
Click to expand...

i might have to dig the camera out one last time to try and get some videos of my attempts. as i said in the other thread, it was most certainly turning big last week. i reckon the seam was around about 45 degrees, and most likely backspun. its hard to tell though without slow motion. the wrist does so much that i honestly dont know how it is coming out of the hand. all i know is that after lots of trial and error its turning back in almost as much as my leg breaks.

impossible is nothing!! (shamelessly stolen from Adidas, i think lol). the key is in the release, and the prior weight transfer. ive got a theory on why Grimmett was so good with the flipper variations, but im waiting until ive got video to see my own action, and then il throw my thoughts out there for Macca to compare to his far superior knowledge of Grimmetts action.
 
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