Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[Cleanprophet]

A lot of talk about Rashid today on SKY, they're saying that his bowling action isn't consistent and that his muscle memory isn't there. In essence he hasn't yet nailed his stock ball. One of the blokes was saying that his release point is all over the place and that's consistent with the fact that he's not able to land the ball where he wants with accuracy, whereas Yasir Shah has all of this sorted and therefore is far more effective.

Was that bloke Pakistani by any chance? I ask because you will find that, to a Pakistani, the sun shines out of Yasir's backside and every other legspinner has technical faults.

In fairness, there is inconsistency in Rashid's action. He lands too many balls a little bit too short. But a lot of that will simply be down to inexperience of playing on these slow tracks in the UAE as well as some technical aspects. Yasir Shah is a decent legspinner and maybe the best of the current bunch in international cricket, but he's by no means a top quality legspinner. For my money, he's a bit too quick and too flat. I like to see legspinners flighting the ball more and trying to beat the batter in the air. Yasir is much more focused on beating the batter off the pitch. Rashid looks to beat the batter in the air. There was some poor batting by Pakistan in the 2nd innings of the 1st Test, but the bowling of Rashid was pure legspin and you don't see that from Yasir so much. I'm not so sure how Yasir would do when the opposition are dominating and going after him. A normal legspinner would come into his own when the batters are attacking. Yasir is much better when the batters are less attacking and that is because he bowls quicker and flatter.

 

[leftie600]

Was that bloke Pakistani by any chance? I ask because you will find that, to a Pakistani, the sun shines out of Yasir's backside and every other legspinner has technical faults.

In fairness, there is inconsistency in Rashid's action. He lands too many balls a little bit too short. But a lot of that will simply be down to inexperience of playing on these slow tracks in the UAE as well as some technical aspects. Yasir Shah is a decent legspinner and maybe the best of the current bunch in international cricket, but he's by no means a top quality legspinner. For my money, he's a bit too quick and too flat. I like to see legspinners flighting the ball more and trying to beat the batter in the air. Yasir is much more focused on beating the batter off the pitch. Rashid looks to beat the batter in the air. There was some poor batting by Pakistan in the 2nd innings of the 1st Test, but the bowling of Rashid was pure legspin and you don't see that from Yasir so much. I'm not so sure how Yasir would do when the opposition are dominating and going after him. A normal legspinner would come into his own when the batters are attacking. Yasir is much better when the batters are less attacking and that is because he bowls quicker and flatter.

Yasir changes his flight and pace to suit the conditions, what he is bowling on at the moment suits flat bowling so that's what he does. He is not another Warne but he is an experienced leg spinner who is the top of his game at the moment.

Rashid would be wise to take notes on what Yasir has been doing on these pitches, beating a batsman in the air is pointless if the pitch is slow or flat enough for them to adjust.

 

[eiglow_]

Finished my first actual club game today in under 13s (even though I'm 13 I get put in u13s anyway lol). It was 50 overs per side like a one dayer. We won the toss and bowled first, to my relief. Everyone was given a go at bowling so that meant I only got 4 overs. I ended up with figures of 1-10 with the one wicket being bowled. It was a flighted legbreak which beat the batsman in flight. I am a left arm wrist spinner and I only faced right handed batsman so I went around the wicket the whole time. I bowled a few wronguns which the batsmen totally missed but unfortunately no edges. I had a bit of a problem dragging the ball a bit short, combined with the large turn I usually get meant there were a few that went down leg. Overall though I felt like I bowled fairly well considering it was my first proper match.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Finished my first actual club game today in under 13s (even though I'm 13 I get put in u13s anyway lol). It was 50 overs per side like a one dayer. We won the toss and bowled first, to my relief. Everyone was given a go at bowling so that meant I only got 4 overs. I ended up with figures of 1-10 with the one wicket being bowled. It was a flighted legbreak which beat the batsman in flight. I am a left arm wrist spinner and I only faced right handed batsman so I went around the wicket the whole time. I bowled a few wronguns which the batsmen totally missed but unfortunately no edges. I had a bit of a problem dragging the ball a bit short, combined with the large turn I usually get meant there were a few that went down leg. Overall though I felt like I bowled fairly well considering it was my first proper match.

Sounds good to me 2.5 an over and a wicket, I'd definitely give you 5 or 6 next game especially with the Googly working as well. Just keep practicing mate and the drag downs will eventually stop, they're probably a result of you trying to spin the ball harder? Do you have tight grip or a nice loose grip? Tight grip and tension usually result in drag downs.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Was that bloke Pakistani by any chance? I ask because you will find that, to a Pakistani, the sun shines out of Yasir's backside and every other legspinner has technical faults.

In fairness, there is inconsistency in Rashid's action. He lands too many balls a little bit too short. But a lot of that will simply be down to inexperience of playing on these slow tracks in the UAE as well as some technical aspects. Yasir Shah is a decent legspinner and maybe the best of the current bunch in international cricket, but he's by no means a top quality legspinner. For my money, he's a bit too quick and too flat. I like to see legspinners flighting the ball more and trying to beat the batter in the air. Yasir is much more focused on beating the batter off the pitch. Rashid looks to beat the batter in the air. There was some poor batting by Pakistan in the 2nd innings of the 1st Test, but the bowling of Rashid was pure legspin and you don't see that from Yasir so much. I'm not so sure how Yasir would do when the opposition are dominating and going after him. A normal legspinner would come into his own when the batters are attacking. Yasir is much better when the batters are less attacking and that is because he bowls quicker and flatter.

Yeah it was Aamir Sohail.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Was that bloke Pakistani by any chance? I ask because you will find that, to a Pakistani, the sun shines out of Yasir's backside and every other legspinner has technical faults.

In fairness, there is inconsistency in Rashid's action. He lands too many balls a little bit too short. But a lot of that will simply be down to inexperience of playing on these slow tracks in the UAE as well as some technical aspects. Yasir Shah is a decent legspinner and maybe the best of the current bunch in international cricket, but he's by no means a top quality legspinner. For my money, he's a bit too quick and too flat. I like to see legspinners flighting the ball more and trying to beat the batter in the air. Yasir is much more focused on beating the batter off the pitch. Rashid looks to beat the batter in the air. There was some poor batting by Pakistan in the 2nd innings of the 1st Test, but the bowling of Rashid was pure legspin and you don't see that from Yasir so much. I'm not so sure how Yasir would do when the opposition are dominating and going after him. A normal legspinner would come into his own when the batters are attacking. Yasir is much better when the batters are less attacking and that is because he bowls quicker and flatter.

Yeah you're right, I'm not a fan of Yashirs approach and I reckon he's doing well because of the pressure that England are under, but that applies to Rashid too. Rashid's task is far more complex than Yashir's - far less experience, younger and under the spotlight for all sorts of reasons. I reckon Rashid has done exceptionally well within the bigger picture. Yesterday he bowled more than anyone else by miles and yet this is new leggie and he's doing it against a team that are recognised as being good at playing spin and this is in their own backyard. With all things considered at less than 5 an over Rashid's effort is very commendable.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Bit cold and damp today here in the UK, but managed to get both sons out on an artificial wicket today and had a bowl and a bat. Earlier in the morning had a knock about with younger son Joe in the street outside of our house and was trying the Googly with the new bowling action and it worked. At one point I bowled an over of only Googlies and all of them were (a) Accurate (b) turning quite a bit, so this afternoon with a real cricket ball I gave the Googly a go and came out very well, taking wickets with it two or three times. That's good news as last year the Googly was pretty much non existent after the Achilles injury at the end of May and prior to that it had along with the top spinner got me a few wickets. I'm off for this week as it's half term, so fingers crossed if the weather stays dry and warm enough I'll still get a few more practices before winter sets in properly (usually around about Nov 5th).

 

[Cleanprophet]

I bowled a few wronguns which the batsmen totally missed but unfortunately no edges.

Ahhh, the life of a wrist spinner. As a left armer, those wronguns are turning away from the right-hander and you will get plenty of those play and miss moments. I had games last season were I reckon the play and miss made up about 40%-50% of what happened when I bowled!

 

[Cleanprophet]

Yasir changes his flight and pace to suit the conditions, what he is bowling on at the moment suits flat bowling so that's what he does. He is not another Warne but he is an experienced leg spinner who is the top of his game at the moment.

Rashid would be wise to take notes on what Yasir has been doing on these pitches, beating a batsman in the air is pointless if the pitch is slow or flat enough for them to adjust.

To be fair, I don't think I've actually ever seen Yasir on anything but these UAE pitches. So it's good to hear he does flight it a lot more on pitches with more pace in them. You're right about Rashid. He bowls a nice slider and I wondered why he didn't bowl that a bit more often on these pitches. It's fairly standard practice in the UAE for spinners to bowl it quicker and flatter. Panesar, who does that as standard, was very useful when he was last out in the UAE (as were a couple of the Pakistani spinners who are not playing in this series).

Rashid's bowling was effective in the 1st Test because Pakistan were in a no-win situation. I'd like to see him bowl a bit flatter at times when Pakistan are on top.

 

[TomBowler97]

Went to nets today and videoed, found things that I didnt realise were there. I'll get to that later. Some trouble lowering my arm, looked at footage from today and saw sometimes my arm was not even lowered, however I do remember they were the worse of the balls (phew) However, towards the end of the video (out tomorrow hopefully) You will see a lower arm and actually it went well, the lower arm offered abit more control, I didn't bowl any drag downs.

However, from the footage, I realised I don't actually look where I am bowling, how can this affect my bowling and how can I fix it?
I will include screenshots below:
https://gyazo.com/adc4b80b79e218e9f865b7cbc7c24d73
https://gyazo.com/a1b205fe8ee4e163825508af9424b4f0
https://gyazo.com/505054212431691c8f914864b7ee78d7

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Went to nets today and videoed, found things that I didnt realise were there. I'll get to that later. Some trouble lowering my arm, looked at footage from today and saw sometimes my arm was not even lowered, however I do remember they were the worse of the balls (phew) However, towards the end of the video (out tomorrow hopefully) You will see a lower arm and actually it went well, the lower arm offered abit more control, I didn't bowl any drag downs.

However, from the footage, I realised I don't actually look where I am bowling, how can this affect my bowling and how can I fix it?
I will include screenshots below:
https://gyazo.com/adc4b80b79e218e9f865b7cbc7c24d73
https://gyazo.com/a1b205fe8ee4e163825508af9424b4f0
https://gyazo.com/505054212431691c8f914864b7ee78d7

I wouldn't worry about that I close my eyes when I bowl!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Went to nets today and videoed, found things that I didnt realise were there. I'll get to that later. Some trouble lowering my arm, looked at footage from today and saw sometimes my arm was not even lowered, however I do remember they were the worse of the balls (phew) However, towards the end of the video (out tomorrow hopefully) You will see a lower arm and actually it went well, the lower arm offered abit more control, I didn't bowl any drag downs.

However, from the footage, I realised I don't actually look where I am bowling, how can this affect my bowling and how can I fix it?
I will include screenshots below:
https://gyazo.com/adc4b80b79e218e9f865b7cbc7c24d73
https://gyazo.com/a1b205fe8ee4e163825508af9424b4f0
https://gyazo.com/505054212431691c8f914864b7ee78d7

What about the important stuff - the run-up. Were you doing it in exactly the same way each time and were you following through properly? What about the stutter - was that evident?

 

[Cleanprophet]

Went to nets today and videoed, found things that I didnt realise were there. I'll get to that later. Some trouble lowering my arm, looked at footage from today and saw sometimes my arm was not even lowered, however I do remember they were the worse of the balls (phew) However, towards the end of the video (out tomorrow hopefully) You will see a lower arm and actually it went well, the lower arm offered abit more control, I didn't bowl any drag downs.

However, from the footage, I realised I don't actually look where I am bowling, how can this affect my bowling and how can I fix it?
I will include screenshots below:
https://gyazo.com/adc4b80b79e218e9f865b7cbc7c24d73
https://gyazo.com/a1b205fe8ee4e163825508af9424b4f0
https://gyazo.com/505054212431691c8f914864b7ee78d7

Those release positions looked good to me. The high arm won't be much of a problem if you are nice and upright in your position. If that left shoulder starts to drop, then you may have problems. Otherwise, you should be fine.

 

[TomBowler97]

Those release positions looked good to me. The high arm won't be much of a problem if you are nice and upright in your position. If that left shoulder starts to drop, then you may have problems. Otherwise, you should be fine.

I think I am posting a video tomorrow if I can edit and get it up in time! I am trying to adapt my arm because of inconsistency! I think I need to drop the shoulder in order to lower the arm, however, I dont want to change too much at once and confuse myself, I still need to land flat, sort out my front arm etc.

 

[TomBowler97]

I did notice that I sprayed a lot of balls down the leg side, why is this? Opening up early? The front arm? That might need answering after I post the video

 

[leftie600]

Great article that every leg spinner should read, gives us all hope.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

I did notice that I sprayed a lot of balls down the leg side, why is this? Opening up early? The front arm? That might need answering after I post the video

Have you sorted the run-up and follow through? Without the run-up being nailed it's pointless focusing on these other aspects, you'll get to a position where you've been tweaking and correcting and at some point in the future, just as I have, you'll probably sit down and realise - I need to establish a run-up and a repeatable action. Then you'll have to basically re-learn everything you've done to then work with the proper run-up.
I'll have a look at your Youtube channel.

 

[TonyM]

Great article that every leg spinner should read, gives us all hope.

Thanks for the link, some interesting opinions in there and a fair range of views which is perhaps what makes legspin so hard/interesting/difficult to coach (delete as applicable!) and its a good update to the modern era having just read Philpott's book, some of MacGill's comments are straight out of the book but others, not so much.

 

[TomBowler97]

Have you sorted the run-up and follow through? Without the run-up being nailed it's pointless focusing on these other aspects, you'll get to a position where you've been tweaking and correcting and at some point in the future, just as I have, you'll probably sit down and realise - I need to establish a run-up and a repeatable action. Then you'll have to basically re-learn everything you've done to then work with the proper run-up.
I'll have a look at your Youtube channel.

To be honest Dave I think I am confusing myself, I think I have a good run up, which you commented on on Youtube a couple of days ago, I have only just checked it and have replied now. I don't know whether I can still be upright (like I am now) with the lower arm, or whether I should be dropping the shoulder and leaning over, like Warne, Shah and all the other great Leg Spinners.What do you think?

However, I also need to work on front arm position and front foot. I also agree with what you commented on my video about the verdict and Rashid and how he hasn't mastered his stock ball, I think that goes for me aswell.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Great article that every leg spinner should read, gives us all hope.

There's a lot of info in there, some brilliant some a little contradictory as they all have varying opinions. But overall a very good article! Nice find Leftie.