Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. TonyM

    TonyM Member

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    If he bowls with more overspin (or even variations in overspin) that surely be a reason for the batter not to use their feet as the length is the hardest thing to judge? Bowlers with a bit of drift and more sidespin are the ones to use your feet to as they 'should' have less dip, so as long as the batter gets to the pitch of the ball they can negate the any turn off the pitch surface.
     
  2. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Check out Majid Haq's bowling action. Not good, but he's playing 1st class cricket and taking wickets:confused:
     
  3. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    To be fair, that's what I was thinking. But, this is a batter who has been with Lancs and has played with and against pros for nearly 20 years - and, Tambe also suggested that he should be using his feet to him rather than the big turning spinner. He was playing Tambe from the crease and I suppose Tambe was suggesting that he should be using his feet to both bowlers, but especially him. It all depends on the length the bowlers are bowling. It may well be that the big turning spinner was dropping short a lot and Tambe was bowling a consistent good length.

    I think it is the combination of drift and dip that really does for a batter. If you were to face a bowler who gets very little dip and lots of drift or a bowler who gets very little drift but lots of dip or a bowler who gets a decent bit of drift and dip, then I think the latter would be the most problematic. The drift messes with line judgement and the dip messes with length judgement. A good batter can adjust for drift and can adjust for dip. Once you get drift and dip, then using your feet becomes a major problem.
     
  4. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    He's not too bad. The major problem with him is that he bowls quite slow and with no overspin at all. It's one of those odd things. In club cricket, he would probably get smashed. In pro cricket, his type of bowling can be effective because the batters put lots of value on their wicket and are far more watchful.
     
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  5. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    You're right, these deliveries are all meant to be leg spinners. Coincidentally, I was discussing with my dad yesterday about I think that I am releasing the ball a tad early, and then I come onto this thread and you have said the same thing.
     
  6. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    I was doing some shopping the other day, and being cricket mad I looked down the aisle and it was clear, so (hopefully no one was looking) I went through my action. There it was, I did it 5 or 6 times, an action where it was repeated and rhythmical, I was taking off on the same foot, had a good bound, a low arm (my dad said) and more importantly, I drove through with my hips and that led to an actual follow through, not the Monty stop like @someblokecalleddave had previously mentioned. So I am thinking about the psychological impact of not having and having a ball. Hopefully I can get down to nets, run through my action without a ball and then out a ball in and it will all fall into plan.

    Another area of discussion, some of you may remember when I discussed how my growth spurt massively affected my bowling about 2 years ago, where I grew from 5ft exactly when I was 14/15 to 5ft 8 within 6 months (Within off season, about Sept to April, Sadly an off season where winter training wasn't a thing). Anyways I also discussed about how to I took 50 wickets in a season, to now where I only bowled 70 overs this year in about 15 games, so about 5 a game, and towards the last months of the season I didn't bowl, I opened the batting because of lost faith in my bowling. This all because I had to recreate my bowling action because when I was 5ft, I had to literally bowl as high as possible to get it down there, meaning easy flight and also slow to confuse batsman, now if I bowled high it would go over the batsman's head. Look at this video I came across of my action from 2 years ago, you will see from then to now a significant growth in height.

    Sorry for the long post, but is this position alright? I feel the cocked wrist may be wrong? @Cleanprophet @GoldenArm

    Cocked Wrist: https://gyazo.com/5c21e4c415263047e2e514b684788132
    Ball release: https://gyazo.com/a3526b9eaf2a11caf7beb2440895dc9a

    Backing up your point about ball slipping out, this shows the ball being released without the seam being how it should be: https://gyazo.com/d8d878f2becc6263f053eceff1951c83
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  7. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    This last video is set to private.

    But the wrist looks fine in those two pics. No problem at all. The release pic shows the position you should be in. The early release pic does show the ball being release a fraction of early. It is suggested that the ideal release position is about 60 degrees (that is, about 30 degrees from the vertical). But I've seen plenty of quality legspinners releasing the ball around 70-75 degrees. The key thing is to not release close to the vertical position because you simply cannot produce a legspinner from there. This is something I've had lots of problems with in the last few months and it all came from developing the googly. To bowl the googly, you often drop the left shoulder and release the ball a little earlier than the legspinner. In my case, I ended up dropping the shoulder and releasing the ball a bit early for all deliveries. You get the feeling of the ball slipping out of your hand (mainly because that is precisely what is happening). It was quite heartening to read that MacGill said he lost his legspinner after developing the googly and it took him 6 months to get his legspinner back.

    If you are producing too many balls that slip out of your hand and go full down the legside, then you should do some bowling over a short distance and just focus and dragging your fingers across the ball - trying to turn it square. Drag downs are not a concern as they are sign that you are getting your fingers over the top of the ball.

    One drill I was doing today was to bowl from about 12-13 yards and as soon as I bowl a ball that turns big, I moved back 2 or 3 yards and bowl again. As soon as I bowl ball at that distance that turns big, I moved back again and keep doing it until I am bowling from the full distance. At that point, you should be turning every ball with a fair amount of sidespin.

    You can worry too much about technique. Sometimes, you need to just bowl. Philpott would talk about bowling with your eyes closed and just get the feeling of your whole action working as one smooth motion. It's also helpful just to watch footage of that legspin release and just try to picture it when you bowl.

    It's very easy to release it a bit early. As I say, I have found that the best way to fix it is to aim for that feeling of the fingers dragging across the ball. It doesn't even matter where the ball lands, as long as you impart a good amount of sidespin. Once you get rid of that unintentional early release, you can get back to getting the line and length right.
     
  8. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Video should work now! Sorry about that! The weather has been awful recently so hopefully it will brighten up so that I can get down there and practice flicking the wrist and dragging my fingers over the ball simultaneously. I have also just watched the Stuart MacGill video he did, and he said about having a relaxed, floppy wrist, which I don't believe I have!
     
  9. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Must have a floppy wrist! Or at least the agility in the wrist to get it into the angle you need it to be in when you bowl, it needs to unfurl though at the point of release, so the ball snaps out of the fingers. You need to be flicking it all the time indoors and whenever - keep it supple.
     
  10. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    My wrist is very tight and tense
     
  11. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Do some exercises to get it supple
     
  12. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    50 wickets in one season I don't think our best spinners do that! I was happy with 12 wickets in a season! Five overs a game, that's not that bad either if you're not taking wickets or if you're going for runs. Do you play adult games or age group games? You'll probably find if you take wickets or bowl miserly overs, you'll get more overs. Stick in there, you'll get there. If your games are anything like the ones I play in there's usually at least 7-8 blokes in the team that want to bowl, you just have to try and make it count when you do bowl.
     
  13. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Adult games Dave. I took 15 wickets this season. I am 17 now, and as soon as you have finished u15 cricket, if you are deemed good enough to play adult cricket, if not, you don't play.
     
  14. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    I can't really see much of a difference in your action from 2 years ago to now. That can be a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing because it shows your action is reasonable consistent and repeatable. It can be a bad thing because anything in that action that you need to change will take a bit of work.

    Your action looks pretty good to me. The arm is high and you might want it to be a little lower, but it's not a big problem if you keep that left shoulder quite upright. You see some bowlers (like Samuel Badree) who have that high arm and they also pull the left shoulder down a lot. Those bowlers simply cannot bowl a decent legspinner. If you look at bowlers like Abdul Qadir, you see bowlers who have a high arm but can still bowl a good legspinner and that's because they don't drop that left shoulder very much. The key to seeing if a bowler is dropping the left shoulder is to look at the head position. If the head is reasonably upright, then the left shoulder is in a decent position. If the head is falling away a bit, then there is a problem. Again, we can see in your videos that your head is in a good position, so we know that your left shoulder is fine.

    Plus, we can also see in the footage that you are dragging your fingers across the ball and producing legspinners. No issue at all in that left shoulder or the height of your arm. Of course, you can try to get a lower arm because you will get more revs on the ball due being able to get more purchase on the ball from your fingers. But, I wouldn't worry about that. If you are releasing the odd ball a bit too early, I would focus on eliminating that before anything else. As I say, just do lots of drills were you work on imparting sidespin and lots of it, ball after ball after ball. Don't just do work off a full length over and over again. Do those drills over a short distance (bowling over a short distance forces you to release it late as you have to do that to land the ball). Get a dozen balls or more and bowl lots of deliveries over a shorter distance to really groove that later release.
     
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  15. AngryRanga

    AngryRanga Member

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    Does everyone here use a tripod when recording their bowling? Does anyone know any cheap tripod replacements, or how to get a decent view of my bowling without one?
     
  16. TonyM

    TonyM Member

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    Well, if nothing else the inclusion of Rashid in the test side has resulted in more column inches, or whatever the digital equivalent is, the latest offering from the BBC - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/34543919 including the quote from Graeme Swann "Leg-spin is by far the hardest thing to do in cricket," which I am not sure really helps the recruitment drive, but is at least honest.
     
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  17. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Yeah keep forgetting you're 17 - I keep looking at your profile picture and assume you're about 15.
     
  18. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Yep I always do, but I'm a photographer so have a 3 pro ones that I can use (Gitzo, Manfrotto or Benbo). Any tripod would do really, if they're a bit wobbly hang a bag underneath with something heavy in it, that'll stabilise it if it's a bit windy. The only other issue then is stopping the ball from hitting the tripod.
     
  19. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Good article. I was thinking last night about how special Rashid is - the bloke bowls in test matches - not T20 where the pressure is on and wickets come cheap. In that last test he bowled an astonishing amount of overs in comparison with all the other bowlers. The bloke is amazing if he's still got his head in the right place. As for Swanne that's probably the only sensible thing he's ever said in his life. (not a fan).
     
  20. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    That was from when I was 15, but Its my only one from cricket, I might change it to me bowling from last season.
     
Put it out there