Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    This is one thing I will be looking at, the pressure of my grip. Then walking in, leaning forward and releasing later, and I am hoping to not over analyse things and hopefully everything else will fall into place.
     
  2. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    "The Rat Swanne leaving a sinking ship". Bob Willis quote tonight on Sky. I'm loving that!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
  3. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Don't worry about leaning forward. Just focus on the later release because if you get that then you will be over your front foot anyway. The only things to think about are not dropping the left shoulder too much and releasing the ball later.
     
  4. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Today at lunch in school I went into the sports hall and bowled 2 overs with my new lower-ish arm and also the later release, I can definitely say it is on the way up, I had a loose grip and was producing genuine leg spinners, where I could feel my finger dragging over the ball and it really ripping out of my hands, not slipping like it used to. The ball had a good leg spin position seam and not wobbling. Also every ball was accurate and spinning. I also followed through naturally with good rotation. So it looks like the later release is working out so far, now I need to incorporate it into actual nets/match and get it into my action. Looks like I finally found something that just might work! Finally!
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
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  5. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Sounds good. A lot of it is about feel. Sometimes, thinking about getting into this position or that position can make things more complicated and actively damage your action. However, there are times when you have to do it to get into positions you have to get into. That feeling of your finger dragging over the ball and not slipping out of your hand is exactly what you want.

    One thing you must remember to do is to not expect too much too soon. You can easily get carried away and start thinking "I've cracked it. I've figured it out".Then if you start bowling a bit like you used to and the bowling isn't as good, it can leave you dismayed and you certainly don't want to get into a negative mindset. Keeping thinking along the lines of "just might work" and keep your expectations in check. It will take a fair bit more work to make a new action natural. Chances are, if you played in a game tomorrow, you would revert back to your old earlier release. That's the beauty of it being off-season. You now have the chance to keep working on this new position/release and make it your natural and instinctive action. But it will take time and remember to ease off if you get the feeling of the old action coming back with the ball slipping out of your hand.
     
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  6. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    This is the thing that I am thinking, I chop and change so often and I think it is about time that I stick with something that works, and the last two times it has worked. I know it is only the beginning and there will be setbacks but I just need to stick with it, and like you said, beauty of the off season I can work on it a lot! My winter nets start in Jan and hoping the weather stays fine for some outdoor sessions.
     
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  7. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Did anyone see Amit Mishra bowling today? Really ripping it!
     
  8. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    yeah he was bowling beautifully, I've always been a fan of him he's quite underrated. We're really being spoilt for wrist spin at the moment, Rashid and Yasir, Tahir and Mishra. Its just a shame the aussies and kiwi's didn't pick Ish Sodhi and Fawad Ahmed or we'd have a full house!
     
  9. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    That would have been great! I loved how he was bowling with pure sidespin or the "the big leg break" every ball, loved he was really ripping it and not scared to drag it down. I also imagine he would have a good slider, if he did bowl it because of his side spin and late release.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2015
  10. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    He had that problem a little while ago of falling away to his left and dropping that left shoulder a lot. He went away and worked on it and now is bowling very nicely. He bowls that slider out of the front of the hand very well.
     
  11. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    I was thinking that he must have worked on something because when I have seen him before he hasn't turned the ball massively, like he does now.
     
  12. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    It is interesting all this business of the lean/fall to the left and the position of the head in relation to the front foot. Seam bowlers look to have a position that sees a line straight from the front foot all the way to the ball in the hand. For most wrist spinners, the best position is to have the head on the same line as the front foot. But of course, there are exceptions and it all depends on what works for you. The most notable exception is Warne. His head does pull to the left a fair bit and his bowling arm is above his front foot, just like a seam bowler. The key thing is balance. Mishra's head pulled to the left, just like Warne's. However, for him it caused a loss of balance that also meant he lost position for the legspinner.

    This is something I've been working on a lot recently. My balance was not right at all as I hit the crease and it lead to my bowling arm falling behind me and then, as it rose into the delivery position, it was moving towards legside. It's something I've mentioned before on here in the past. You really want the bowling arm moving straight as it rises into the delivery position. Some bowlers, like Ish Sodhi, move the arm to the offside as it rises into the delivery position and that's ok. But I think the ideal movement is completely straight so that the line the arm is on as it rises behind you is the same line it is on as the ball is released.

    For some reason, as I hit the crease I was leaning back. My front arm pushed out towards the legside and my bowling arm moved towards the legside and made it impossible to then flick the wrist properly so that my fingers dragged across the ball and put a good amount of sidespin on the ball. I worked on getting my head over my front foot and pulling the front arm towards 1st slip. It felt to me like my head was over my front foot but when I watched it back, I found myself in the same position that Warne got into with the bowling arm above the front foot. The main thing is that the balance was good and the bowling arm moved on a straight line helping me produce legspinners. So, in the end, the position that works for me is the position Warne gets into.

    This video comparison shows it very well. On the left you have Adam Zampa and on the right is Warne. Look at the head positions in relation to the front foot. Very different and, at the end of the day, it's all about what feels comfortable and what is balanced. Balance is absolutely fundamental. A lot of legspinners will have issues with falling away to the left with Warne's action. Zampa is actually slighly inside the line of his front and it means his follow through is front on because he loses a bit of rotation - get over that front foot but maybe not as much as Zampa:

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  13. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen this?
     
  14. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    That's a good analysis of the importance of approach and balance. But, of course, for seam bowling only. For us spinners, we want to jump into the line of the stumps so much of what that girl is doing is actually pretty good for a wrist spinner. Funnily enough, the position she delivers the ball from is very much like the position Warne delivered the ball from. They make a big deal of her being "off balance" but actually her follow through is very, very similar in both deliveries.

    Here's a little example of my bowling from today. The balance is much better (there's no lean away and no open chest), but I would just like to get my head/chest over my front foot a bit more to ensure that that bowling arm moves on a straight line (it's a little bit towards the stumps here and not completely in the channel):

     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2015
  15. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    Is this you going full out or holding back just for the sake of practice? and Dave what happened to Macca? He was the best person on here by miles, I can't see any posts from him recently.
     
  16. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    It's just practice stuff really. No real run up and no jump/explosion through the crease. I'd estimate that this is about 50%-60% of the energy/speed/effort that I'd get when bowling full out.
     
  17. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    Have you got any footage of you going flat out?
     
  18. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Not really. This is a video from March this year and I'm probably bowling close to flat out but off a relaxed run up. The problem I had was that when I bowled flat out, I lost the legspin release position so I always bowled about 80%-90%. It's why I made some changes to my action, to try and get a more solid base that allows me to bowl flat out and still bowl the legspinner. As you can see from this footage, my front foot is on the same line as my back foot. I started getting the front foot right across my body but that produced a lean away as I jumped into the delivery stride (that's what I'm working on fixing with the step starts). That head position is something I've got into always, with the bowling arm right above the standing leg. I'm just working on reducing the lean to the left, pulling the front arm more towards 1st slip than leg slip (as it is in this video) and getting the bowling arm a little bit lower:

     
  19. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    Would you still say that your shoulder is quite upright compared to Warne's? I think that I should be upright shoulder with just a little bit of a lower arm? Similar to this position, however, just a slightly later release and leaning over? [​IMG]
    https://gyazo.com/baa270352d9efcda730d5c9d1ca91120 What do you think? And what do you think of my action on a whole?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  20. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    Yeah the shape on the ball looks great but there's a huge falling away almost into the side netting that's going to make consistency difficult. Think you've pretty much just got to think about pulling that lead arm into the ribcage/left thigh and following through strongly towards the batsman and you'll be looking good. I'm not sure the walking up actually helps, if I was going to give you any advice at all I'd say build up more momentum and leave yourself less to do right at the end, putting in all that late effort has got to be making life more difficult.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
Put it out there