Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    That fall away to the left actually became a lot worse within 2 months of that footage. It certainly does hurt consistency. But it also tended to collapse when I bowled flat out. That's why I ended up finding myself having to do that work to get my chest/head going much more at the target and nearer to the line of the front foot. I did post this footage from a couple of months earlier:



    There isn't the same falling away to the left in that. I think working on the googly led to me dropping the left shoulder more and more to the point were my follow through was causing me to fall into the side netting at times. It was a gradual thing that happened over a few months.

    Regarding the run up. This is something I was looking at back in September. This was the change I came up with back then:



    I was using that longer run up purely because I came to the same conclusion as you, that having create all the energy at the crease was not ideal. I don't have to really sprint in like MacGill or Yashir Shah, but I do need to get a bit more energy into the run up. I worked out a 7 step approach a couple of months ago and focused on trying to keep that left shoulder upright. It was working but I was still not quite getting my momentum going forward enough. I was still falling to the left a little. I'm getting there. I started having issues with releasing the ball too early as well. I'm getting all that sorted now. As I said before, it's all about that centre of balance and getting the movement of the bowling shoulder coming up and through the line of the lead shoulder with, as you say, the follow through right at the target.
     
  2. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    @Cleanprophet this is a recent side on video of my action with my later release, It is still earlier than I thought it was, but I am getting good spin and its accurate, and the ball isnt slipping out. What do you think?



    I apologise about the size I videod it on my phone! Recommend going to the channel to watch it.
     
  3. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    That looks absolutey fine to me. There is a suggestion that a 60 degree angle is the angle to look for, but I wouldn't worry about that. It's simply about releasing it late enough to allow your fingers to rip over the ball and to eliminate the possibility of the ball slipping out of your hand. It looks as it should to me and if it feels good and is spinning plenty, then all you need to do is just repeat that over and over again.
     
  4. TomBowler97

    TomBowler97 Member

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    By 60 degree angle do you mean my bowling arm height? And yep, It isn't slipping and is spinning more than I used to! So if that works when I get down to nets, thats what I will stick with, and I do think it will work, I have been doing this for a couple of weeks now and I havent found a fault, yet. I will just keep working on it!
     
  5. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    My coach has started filming me during training sessions so I've just edited together a few deliveries on iMovie to see what you guys think. My bowling had got really sloppy the last couple of seasons as my batting overtook it so I'm working on some basics to try and get it back up to scratch. Mostly keeping that left arm tight to my side and stopping it pulling away toward the covers which was a lethal habit I had picked up and just makes me so inconsistent.generally I'm just trying to smooth everything out and get it feeling natural after making these adjustments, my follow through looks a little abbreviated to me but it doesn't seem to be having a negative outcome. It's not there yet but it definitely feels a lot better and the consistency is coming slowly. There is zero spin on this surface so you really have to bowl tight, good practice! The old boy from the net next door offered to come and be my victim , i do prefer to practice 50% of the time with a real batsman if possible. Any observations very welcome!
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2015
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  6. leftie600

    leftie600 Active Member

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    I agree, maybe bowling on a surface with zero spin is making you too concerned with accuracy so you don't quite finish your action?

    Been there myself and nearly lost my drift and dip because of winter training on surfaces like that.
     
  7. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    That's a very loose grip you have there. The whole grip and wrist looks nice and relaxed and ready to whip. Maybe it's just the footage, but it looks like the ball has no sidespin on it. Looks like a topspinner release, but that might just be the footage.

    Your chest is quite open as you hit the crease, with your head leaning a fair way back. It then comes back into line as you deliver the ball and the position as you deliver the ball looks very good. But, that head position might be having an effect.

    I noticed your front arm pulls way out towards point. I used to have the problem of my front arm directed towards leg slip. From what I've seen and experienced, the best place to have that front arm pulling towards is around 1st slip. Might well be that the front arm direction is part of the reason the head leans back because it will be pulling you to the off-side I'd have thought.
     
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  8. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Yeah. Imagine that with your arm completely upright you are creating a 90 degree angle between that arm and the ground. Moving the arm/upper body towards the ground will then create a different angle. The idea is that a 60 degree angle is ideal, but I don't think many legspinners actually get to that 60 degree angle. It's more like 70-75 degrees. The main thing is to get the arm forward enough so that you are able to drag your fingers across the ball, whatever angle that is for you.
     
  9. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    I really can't see the seam at all in the video the ball is just too old and dark. Generally though I have no problem with side spin, I've had captains tell me I spin it too much sideways which always makes me scratch my head. I kind of get what they're saying that if you're moving it more than a bats width you're going to be spinning past the edge but still, spin is never a bad thing surely!!

    You're spot on about my front arm, next session I'm going to spend really looking over my left shoulder to get more side on. Five months to go till the new season starts so plenty of time to practice thankfully.
     
  10. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    Could well be, but I think it's also that I'm just thinking quite hard about everything as I'm coming in to bowl and not quite moving with unconscious freedom. Could take me weeks even a couple of months to bowl exactly how I want with freedom and really get through my action completely.
     
  11. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Might be worth filming your bowling from behind and close up, just to check that release. I used to get lots of sidepspin and, quite often, too much. Then I started to spin it less and less. When I checked the release, I was putting less sidespin on it. I've bowled on all kinds of surfaces and I told myself, when it didn't turn, that it was probably just the surface. In fact, it was my release.

    Having that front arm pull towards point will ensure you get nicely chest on, but it will probably also mean less rotation because that front shoulder is already quite open early on in the delivery.

    As you say, this is the perfect time to work on it and get it sorted for the next season. I don't think it will be too difficult to get that front arm more towards 1st slip. From my experience, it may only take a few sessions.
     
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  12. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    Good shout, next time we film I'll get him to do that. And try and use a slightly newer ball. Might include a few variations just for fun at the end as well. My flipper has been coming out really nicely of late. Couple of them have actually started to get that nasty drift into the batsman and a couple of them go wrong completely drift huge and then turn like a leggie. That ever happen to you?
     
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  13. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    I stopped bowling the flipper about a year ago because I wasn't bowling it very well (it was very, very easy to pick as much as anything else). But I was forever producing unintended variation when bowling it. That's why I may go back to bowling it in the future because knowing it is the flipper release didn't mean that it was always going to skid straight on. As you say, some drifted in and, for me, some drifted away too.
     
  14. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Yep happens to me in certain conditions, I'd have called it 'Swing' rather than drift though - seam up with back spin? Then once it pitches breaks away from the bat.
     
  15. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Interesting watching blokes that were once the worlds best bowling in the 'All stars' games in the USA. Wides, short balls and generally very average looking bowling. They soon lose it, it seems and this is despite the fact that a lot of them have been practicing running up the series.
     
  16. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    Most of the spinners still look good enough to be playing. The seamers were struggling. Although, Wasim Akram still looked pretty useful.
     
  17. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    I thought Shaun pollock still looked like he played every week, albeit at a lower level. Akram hasn't lost his swing either has he! You could see Warne and murali were really shadows of their former selves though, even with a bit of practice. The only spinner who looks like he's kept on working on his game is saqlain, he's the only offie I can think of who's made such an effort to incorporate a flipper variation into his armoury. Did you guys see him bowling tendulkar with this jalebi/teesra/flipper? There was a video floating round of him bowling it years ago in the CPL and it seems like he's kept on working on it.
     
  18. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    There were two other spinners who looked very impressive, mainly because they only retired in the last year, Swann and Vettori. I saw the wicket of Tendulkar and they said Saqlain was still working on new deliveries. It almost looked like a googly.

    Warne still looked the business to me. He bowled a couple of drag downs, but he was getting drift and spinning it hard. The accuracy isn't what it was of course, but that's simply down to not bowling as much. The ability to bowl that big legspinner is still very much there.
     
  19. GoldenArm

    GoldenArm Member

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    @Cleanprophet



    there you go, its without question his own version of the flipper. It makes me laugh how many people are befuddled when people bowl something like this. I'm on another forum where people had convinced themselves it was just an off spinner that went straight on etc.. and just couldn't get their head round it. Okay fair enough the commentators/media for years have got things muddled up a lot and hype things up unnecessarily (for instance Ajmals teesra when England toured UAE a few years ago, that was pure smoke and mirrors) but its not sorcery, its just a back spinner for heavens sake! But then i guess we should thank our lucky stars that even in this day and age people are so utterly confused by the leg spinners armoury. Props to the aussie commentator (ian chappell I think) who instantly spots that its a flipper.

    Here's the Tendulkar wicket just for good measure:

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/939923.html
     
  20. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was impressed with his bowling too in the other match. I thought Swann had messed his arm/shoulder up though? Looked okay to me?
     
Put it out there