Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

Discussion in 'Spin Bowling' started by Richard the Third, Feb 19, 2011.

Put it out there
  1. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I would like to see this!

    I'm having some good practicing at the moment. I have found a climbing wall in the olympic park which is perfectly angled so if you bowl at it, the ball comes back for the catch! So after midnight the children have left and I can practice there.

    I just have to watch for the security car sweeps.
     
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  2. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Not a lot happening on here anymore eh?
     
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  3. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    We're all waiting for the next installment on your blog, come on Dave get typing!:)

    Good to see legspin in the Champions trophy: Rashid, Tahir, Khan & Zampa.
    Rashid seems to be the pick of the bunch at the moment. He has a delivery out of the front of the hand I couldn't quite see what it was, but it was fizzing and quicker, maybe a Sydney Barnes type of fingery legbreak.
    I've been working on the Barnes legbreak and its definitely got potential as a faster skiddy legreak.
    Anyone else tried this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  4. someblokecalleddave

    someblokecalleddave Well-Known Member

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    Mate, I'm a teacher and it's the end of the year, I'm shot to pieces with assessment and trying to get kids through their end of year assessments etc. Yeah I'll see what I can do though. Thanks for reading it!

    I'm working on a straight ball as well - more of a fingery top-spinner, but the last couple of session I've been bowling a straight ball using the Iverson Gleeson grip, it doesn't turn, but it's so much faster and accurate, a weird option I think with the grip, but it just seems to work better than anything else that I do that is supposed to be a straight ball. I can't see myself using it tomorrow, but another week or so perhaps?
     
  5. Cleanprophet

    Cleanprophet Active Member

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    I didn't know about Sydney Barnes and his grip/action, but I've been trying it a bit in the last few weeks. At the end of a net session, I decided to bowl the flipper (after not bowling it for well over a year). The problem with my flipper is that I just can't bowl it properly because I can only bowl it if I bowl with a straight wrist. I can't disguise it at all, so it is immediately clear to pick.

    However, what I decided to try and do was disguise the legspinner by bowling that with a straight wrist and using only fingerspin. I just wanted to see if the batter I was bowling to (who could easily pick the flipper) could spot whether I was bowling the flipper or the fingerspun legspinner with the straight wrist. He couldn't. The fingerspun legspinner was much easier to bowl accurately, but I haven't bowled it again since or ever bowled it in a match. It did feel a bit Sunil Narine and I'd have to work on it to be able to bowl it with real energy.
     
  6. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Sydney Barnes bowled 80mph leg-cutters. Stuart Broad sometimes bowls a ball like this. Is that what you're talking about?
     
  7. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    I've got the book on Barnes where his grip is shown and recently managed to get hold of the Barnes documentary.
    In his own words he says he did not bowl cutters but was a genuine spin bowler and spun the ball both ways to leg & off.
    His speed was more in the 70's from what witness's reported.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...ights-2017-first-semifinal-pakistan-v-england

    Here is the link to that Rashid ball out of the front of the hand, two different camera angles at 36.23
     
  8. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    Well he would say that, wouldn't he. His terminology would not be the same as our terminology.

    "Barnes said that he did not bowl a ball without spinning it and that was the reason for the success that he obtained. He released the ball when it was at its highest point above his head and from a cocked wrist and hand straightening whipped it down and without any rotation of the wrist or turning over of the hand imparted the required spin to it."

    ie, a cutter. Photographs of his grip show completely orthodox cross-seam cutter grips.
     
  9. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    If you scroll down on the webpage you pasted from, you will see this about his legbreak.

    'This grip would then enable the fingers to apply anti-clockwise spin powerfully, easily and quickly. With this unique grip of Barnes the ball can be spun vigorously and quickly. The position of the first finger for leg break and the second for the off break seem to be the key to bowling both quickly.'

    The pics of the Barnes grip on the same site don't look like the cutter grip to me.
     
  10. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    But that is that bloke's personal theory, which is abject nonsense, whereas the bit I quoted was a direct quote.

    The technical difference between a spin delivery and a cutter is that if the wrist extends during delivery, its an off break/leg break, if the wrist flexes, its a cutter. Everything I have ever read about Barnes, and I've been reading about him for 20+ years, and ever picture I've ever seen, suggests that he flexed his wrist during delivery. So he bowled cutters.
     
  11. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    Aaah!! I see clearly now! all the techniques are illustrated in this video
     
  12. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    If you're not interested in talking about cricket, why are you here? Go troll somewhere else.
     
  13. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    Yes, was going to post about this! I've tried a few recently in the nets and a couple of times they've been coming out and were looking downright nasty..!
     
  14. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    From an interview with David Frith:
    http://www.espncricinfo.com/wisdencricketer/content/story/306959.html
     
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  15. Billywhizz

    Billywhizz Member

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    Did it turn much? how was the seam position? When I bowl it, its full side spin so sometimes grips and sometimes skids on.
     
  16. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    At the risk of repeating myself.

    Well he would say that, wouldn't he. His terminology would not be the same as our terminology. Have you read "Great Bowlers and Fielders: Their Methods at a Glance (1907)" by C. B. Fry? The terminology he uses is totally different from the terminology we use today.

    Most cricket writing and commentary, is sadly, complete gibberish. This is never more the case when talking about spin bowling. Its depressing, the distinction between off-breaks and off-cutters, flippers and sliders, etc is actually pretty clear-cut, its just that no-one outside of the professional coaching community seems to have the first ************** clue what they're talking about.

    Sydney Barnes was a great bowler, but he did not bowl leg breaks. He bowled leg cutters.
     
  17. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    I tried a couple today, seam position looked suprisingly square, I guess tilted back so a little bit flying saucer, but it did turn. I'll try to film things. Of course when you have the camera running or it's a match bowling these things is a different matter!

    My bowling is really improving. I'm practising off one pace and absolutely enjoying the feeling of the ball coming off the fingers and somehow it's kicking to the off when I'm just trying bowl a natural topspinner. This all really puzzles me but I've decided to just work on whatever feels good and naturally spins the ball, then vary it later if necessary, there's plenty of natural variation anyway.

    Have a friendly match on Sunday where I'll probably get a few overs.
     
  18. boogiespinner

    boogiespinner Active Member

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    But doubtless this is your personal definition of a cutter.
     
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  19. SLA

    SLA Active Member

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    No, its the definition used by cricket coaches, players, and experts. I've been to plenty of workshops and conferences on spin and seam bowling, this is something that everyone understands and agrees on.

    Out of the goodness of my heart and the generosity of my spirit, I am taking time out of my day to share this knowledge with you. I ask for nothing in return.

    However, if you want to remain ignorant and misinformed, that is entirely your prerogative. However I must ask, if you're just going to be a rude prick, why come on this website? Just go back to bowling at your climbing wall.
     
  20. Chino#21

    Chino#21 Active Member

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    A cutter by any other name would spin as well. - William Shakespeare.
     
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Put it out there