Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I'll just see how I get on with bowling outside of off-stump turning it into him with the leg breaks as Jim pointed out it's like an Off-spinner bowling at a right - hander which is a very obvious and good point. So I'll try and find some footage of Swann or Panesar bowling and see what it is they do? I'll just vary the flight, speed, and position on the crease I bowl from and just see what happens.

Swann pitches it well up, and well outside off stump (the number of deliveries that end up full tosses illustrates his length quite well). he generally gets at least 3 fielders in close catching positions, and then plugs away outside off stump. aside from that you rarely see anything special in his bowling. he doesnt have any proper variations, just variation in pace really. he lets the ball do the work, and the ones that dont grip the pitch and skid through straight often take the wicket!

Monty is a slow left armer, so he basically uses the same tactics as we would (in theory) use to a lefty!! if you can find any footage of Monty when he first broke into the England team and was taking lots of wickets then that would be useful stuff. he could rip the ball quite well at times. in recent years he seems to have gone downhill bigtime.

there is also a ton of video of Warne to lefties. he moves around all over the crease. over, around, narrow, wide. he never lets them settle anywhere, i think that might be key.

 

[scooter22]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hmmm, that sounds a little strange. Normally, a flighted ball should have little trouble spinning, at least if you flatter ones are turning. Is the seam in a different position on your flighted ones? It might be failing to hit the seam and so not gripping. Is your wrist action significantly different on your flighted one? It might be that you re not getting the same revs on your flighted ones.

Yea i think my wrist position changes when i bowl the flighted one. I dont change the seam position often, and the revs on the ball are more top spin then side spin i think.

in regards to hitting the stumps every delivery, i definately dont try to do that. I pitch it on middle and leg, and turn it well across the batsmen. I have two problems with this at my grade:
1) they go forward and drive at it, but i never catch the edge.
2)when a tailender comes in (or anyone that cant read the spin) they are in all sorts, they cant get near the ball, so i was working on one to hit the stumps. It was this experiment that made me realise its very hard for me to hit the stumps without drifting a couple feet down the legside. So i tried to develop a flipper/slider to try to get them out. I couldnt develop either.

Lately i have been using full tosses to get them out (so they can hit it) but to the sloggers this wouldnt work. How can i get someone out that cant read the spin, or get bat on ball???

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Swann pitches it well up, and well outside off stump (the number of deliveries that end up full tosses illustrates his length quite well). he generally gets at least 3 fielders in close catching positions, and then plugs away outside off stump. aside from that you rarely see anything special in his bowling. he doesnt have any proper variations, just variation in pace really. he lets the ball do the work, and the ones that dont grip the pitch and skid through straight often take the wicket!

Monty is a slow left armer, so he basically uses the same tactics as we would (in theory) use to a lefty!! if you can find any footage of Monty when he first broke into the England team and was taking lots of wickets then that would be useful stuff. he could rip the ball quite well at times. in recent years he seems to have gone downhill bigtime.

there is also a ton of video of Warne to lefties. he moves around all over the crease. over, around, narrow, wide. he never lets them settle anywhere, i think that might be key.

That sounds like a good tactic and typically Warnesque from a psychological point of view. I might try that as well the following week and see if that has any benefit.

On the subject of Panesar - I've just come across this ...............
Michael Vaughan admits that he always found Panesar a frustrating man to captain, because he could not set his own fields or read local conditions. But the trouble really started when Mushtaq Ahmed was appointed as England's new spin-bowling coach, and encouraged Panesar to work in a few variations. Mushtaq's charge promptly lapsed into a state of near-paralysed confusion.

From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...ar-aims-to-show-hes-thinking-for-himself.html

The interesting point is that a bloke that's at England level isn't setting his own field or knowledgable to read the conditions - I think this again reinforces the suspicion that we have on here that these people are not that very special and that they're probably not completely immersed in their art - maybe it's to do with their age. Remember the points I was making a couple of months back about Samit Patel and his complete ignorance of how important diet and fitness training was to his career. Remember too how you were all telling me that those 2 sussex lads that did that stint in the middle with Warne in the summer were seemingly clueless about their art?

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

limiting runs depends on the format of the game to some extent i think. 40 over club cricket is generally fairly fast paced, but not so fast paced that batsmen feel the need to lash out at everything. depending on the mindset of the batsman of course, as some are just overly aggressive. but when youre only bowling in 3-6 over spells (a specified maximum of 8 overs per bowler) its hard to build pressure by restricting scoring, its not like a test match. most sensible batsmen would just look to survive or try and grab singles or capitalise on anything loose (this is quite important - if youre not ultra consistent and you gift runs every over then its impossible to be defensive anyway!). so negativity wont necessarily be rewarded. id generally rather try my luck bowling aggressively and risking some runs looking for a quick wicket than play a patient defensive game and hope for a mistake. if i had more overs then its easier to formulate a long term bowling plan. but il generally get 3-6, usually 4, and the only way i can buy more from the captain is with wickets!!

if you bowl outside off stump then that is an aggressive delivery. inline and around off stump is probably a standard line depending on how much you turn it, if you turn it big then move the line outside. bowling at the pads with a loaded on-side field is a negative and defensive ploy with no intention other than to restrict scoring. any shot played there is fairly safe because LBW is very hard to get (near on impossible at club level when rival batsmen are the umpires!!!), the ball has almost no chance of hitting the wicket, and unless the batsman really messes it up its hard for him to get caught anywhere playing a sensible shot.

if you bowl outside off stump then the batsman has no choice but to take a risk. if he tries to hit you hard then its a huge risk because he has to play against the turn, if he tries to play a sensible shot then its still a risk. if he defends then hes still at risk of finding an edge or getting bowled through the gate. the safest shot is to try and help the ball onto the on-side, playing with the spin, but those are technically difficult shots and need good footwork, footwork also brings stumpings into play if youre getting to the pitch of the ball. its also easy to get caught at any number of positions, both playing shots and trying not to play shots (e.g. edges).

there are situations for both aggressive and defensive. but i dont think the standard line to a lefty should be a defensive one. i think you need to be positive and attack them with your bowling from the word go. but ultimately you cant do any damage unless youve got the ball in your hand, so if a lefty is taking you to the cleaners and you cant solve it quickly then go defensive against him just so that the captain doesnt remove you from the attack. and then focus on getting the righty at the other end on strike lol. the same applies to good right handed bats though, if the batsman has the upper hand and you cant regain control then just look to get the other batsman on strike. i also dont think the general bowling mindset should differ between righties and lefties. just the line that you bowl given the differing direction of turn and the variations you play with. i definitely dont think that the googly should be used more though, unless youve got one that turns as big as your leg breaks!

I totally agree that you shouldn't have defensive tactics as your standard mind set. But like you say you have to be open minded and adapt to any situation. If the situation requires you to bowl tight then that's what you have to do.

It is definitely tricky to find a balance between making an impact when you do get a chance and leaking runs because you are trying to force a wicket.

Most good batsmen I know talk about the pressure of not scoring as the biggest factor in them making mistakes and getting out. You can achieve this by attacking or bowling tight, like you say it's really down to so many factors that there is no right or wrong answer.

I think the article is just showing what has statistically been successful over the years rather than a set of rules for a given situation. Only your personal experience can give you that.

Shane Warne had a strike rate of something like a wicket every 6 overs in ODI's so if you get anywhere close to that you are some bowler.

on the subject of lefties I think you should treat them like any batsman, that being judging their individual strengths and weaknesses and bowling and setting the field accordingly, but having the knowledge of what can be successful can't hurt. I personally would start by bowling using the off spinner to a right hander method and then adapt if I felt it wasn't working.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I

Shane Warne had a strike rate of something like a wicket every 6 overs in ODI's so if you get anywhere close to that you are some bowler.

.

When you say YOUI take it you mean at International level?

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

When you say YOUI take it you mean at International level?

I just mean having a strike rate like that.

If you bowled 10 overs a game with 20 games a season at what ever level then that's 33 wickets. That's not bad at all. if you have a decent economy rate to go with that then all the better.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

I just mean having a strike rate like that.

If you bowled 10 overs a game with 20 games a season at what ever level then that's 33 wickets. That's not bad at all. if you have a decent economy rate to go with that then all the better.

That's alright then my figures for last year were

54-12-267-21
Average 12.71
RPO 4.86
Strike Rate 15.69
Best Bowling 4-27

And that's with them being totally screwed up by two left handers who both took me to the cleaners and ruined my figures.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

on the subject of lefties I think you should treat them like any batsman, that being judging their individual strengths and weaknesses and bowling and setting the field accordingly, but having the knowledge of what can be successful can't hurt. I personally would start by bowling using the off spinner to a right hander method and then adapt if I felt it wasn't working.

Yeah treat them like any batsman. Just bowl a different line and angle at them. You have to avoid developing a phobia about lefthanders. As well as thinking offspin to righthanders it is also like a lefthanded wristspinner to a righthanded batsman. Fleetwood Smith got out loads of righthanders but he had a superb wrongun. His line was outside offstump, often quite wide, but he was a huge spinner. Adjusting to right and left handers if they rotate the strike is the only real problem. You can train for that.

I always bat ambidextrous in the nets to my son. and have him bowl to a left hander and righthander. I swap around like it might be in the middle. It is a good idea to try batting lefthanded against right hand legspin as a coaching lesson for a legspinner , straight away you can see you need to bowl outside off stump mainly.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

in regards to hitting the stumps every delivery, i definately dont try to do that. I pitch it on middle and leg, and turn it well across the batsmen. I have two problems with this at my grade:
1) they go forward and drive at it, but i never catch the edge.
2)when a tailender comes in (or anyone that cant read the spin) they are in all sorts, they cant get near the ball, so i was working on one to hit the stumps. It was this experiment that made me realise its very hard for me to hit the stumps without drifting a couple feet down the legside. So i tried to develop a flipper/slider to try to get them out. I couldnt develop either.

Lately i have been using full tosses to get them out (so they can hit it) but to the sloggers this wouldnt work. How can i get someone out that cant read the spin, or get bat on ball???

It is more their problem than yours. If they cant bat to your bowling is not a bad thing but i know exactly what you mean about needing a flipper or slider. You get sick of the bounce and spin on the concrete, even though it is your bread and butter as a legbreak bowler, you want a delivery, a cut through ball that will bowl or lbw the batsman occasionally.

A backspinner of some sort is the answer. Depending on time and effort that can be a medium to long term project to work on. Even when you have learnt to bowl one you have to be careful and not overbowl it in a game. The legbreak and topspinner will get most of your wickets. Wickets gained from wronguns and other variations like flippers just stick in the memory more, especially if they were planned.

 

[mustang1]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi guys,
I have been reading posts on this forum and it has helped me greatly.. i am new to leg spin bowling.. i can get big turn from smaller distances but when i try to bowl on 22 yards pitch all my deliveries go straight thru with little or no turn.. i believe my bowling action is the same though i might be using a little more shoulder to get it farther..
pls advice

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi guys,
I have been reading posts on this forum and it has helped me greatly.. i am new to leg spin bowling.. i can get big turn from smaller distances but when i try to bowl on 22 yards pitch all my deliveries go straight thru with little or no turn.. i believe my bowling action is the same though i might be using a little more shoulder to get it farther..
pls advice

Welcome Mustang1.

How long have you been bowling legspin? You will find all the deliveries easier to bowl over a short distance and that is where most beginners start off.

If you can get the ball to land on the stumps and well up you can begin to start spinning it over 22 yards. You need to have the back of your hand more or less facing you and the palm facing the batsman when you release a legbreak. You can practise the release against a wall countless thousands of times to begin with.

If you have any video and post it here you will get some good advise from several different people. Your action will be dissected and commented on for sure.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Our Prime Minister is definately a member of the legspin fraternity and bowled two beautiful legbreaks that pitched outside leg than hit the top of off at the test in the lunch break. The batsmen where only 6 year old though.

Better than our last pm who thought he was an offspinner and tried to bowl some once in Pakistan, he bowled two balls both landed less than 1 yard in front of him. Embarrasment for everyone.

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi guys,
I have been reading posts on this forum and it has helped me greatly.. i am new to leg spin bowling.. i can get big turn from smaller distances but when i try to bowl on 22 yards pitch all my deliveries go straight thru with little or no turn.. i believe my bowling action is the same though i might be using a little more shoulder to get it farther..
pls advice

probably the biggest cause of this will be a very subtle adjustment (or just inconsistency) in your action. when you bowl across short distances your arm is fairly relaxed, there isnt a huge amount of effort involved in propelling the ball forwards.

when you then try to bowl across 22 yards you have to work a lot harder. the more effort you put in, the more inconsistent you will be until you adjust to it. you just need to stick at it and practice.

back to my original point though, when bowling over a longer distance id put money on the main cause for it not turning being that your wrist releases the ball at a slightly different angle. so instead of the ball landing on the seam, it is slanted slightly backwards so that it lands on the smooth leather! when this happens youll almost never get it to turn big. although sometimes it will still turn a little on a really grippy pitch with an old ball.

you just have to build yourself up to the longer distance. start out practicing across a comfortable distance, and just gradually increase your effort up to 22 yards. pay very close attention to your action as you increase the distance and try to keep it as similar as possible.

do you bowl off a run up? in the longer term youll probably find that if you dont have a run up, or its only a couple of steps, that adding a longer one will allow you to add momentum to your deliveries without adding too much more effort with your arm. but youll have to figure that out for yourself, just go with what feels comfortable for now, and then try out different things as you progress further.

one final point which is often overlooked - to propel a ball across a longer distance you have to bowl it either faster, or higher (more flight) in order for it to get there. the faster the ball is moving forwards, the less it will move sideways off the pitch before it reaches the batsman. this is also another major reason why shorter deliveries turn more. you just need to practice endlessly until you start to figure it out. i started out bowling across about 18 yards and just gradually worked up to 22 yards. i measured it out wrongly though for a few weeks, so i was bowling across more like 24 yards, which may actually have helped a bit in strengthening my arm and improving my technique.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Our Prime Minister is definately a member of the legspin fraternity and bowled two beautiful legbreaks that pitched outside leg than hit the top of off at the test in the lunch break. The batsmen where only 6 year old though.

Better than our last pm who thought he was an offspinner and tried to bowl some once in Pakistan, he bowled two balls both landed less than 1 yard in front of him. Embarrasment for everyone.

Is this on video or your 9Msn channel?

How old is Mustang, how tall as that may have a bearing on things like strength and how often do you practice and for how long?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Is this on video or your 9Msn channel?

Rudd doesn't get his front arm up at all but he was a wicketkeeper. He usually gets the ball to spin though.

I reckon Kaneria does not get side-on enough to get prodigous spin. He looked best when he bowled faster to the right handers with a shortleg and bowling a few wronguns but he cant do that as good as Kumble used to do here, he is not consistently accurate enough. He bowled for a long time wide of off stump to a packed off side field and that is his only plan when he is under attack. His best ability is his variation of pace.

Katich bowled his chinaman stuff superbly yesterday. He does not put as much into his action as he used to, he just loops it up there and still has a great wrongun that must be hard to pick. He got more spin than anyone, which is hardly surprising. Hauritz's offspin looked so bland compared to the bounce and spin of the wristspinner.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

i started out bowling across about 18 yards and just gradually worked up to 22 yards. i measured it out wrongly though for a few weeks, so i was bowling across more like 24 yards, which may actually have helped a bit in strengthening my arm and improving my technique.

That is something I get my kid to do occassionally, bowl over a longer distance. Usually in the off season.

 

[Spiderlounge]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi all, I found the site through SomeBlokeCalledDave's excellent blog and hoped I could get some advice. My girlfriend's persuaded me to find a team and start playing cricket for the first time since I left school ten years ago. Initially I'm intending to just find a team and see if I can get into a team on the basis of my batting, i.e. not bowling at all, but I fancied learning to bowl as well and the more I read about leg spin the more it fascinates me - I think I've got the bug!

Anyway, every coaching video I've seen talks about the importance of learning things right the first time so there aren't messy habits to work out later, so I wanted some comments on how I intend to go about things. Before anyone mentions Philpott's book, I've ordered it and it's in the post...

Q1: Do you think any reasonably average person can learn to bowl a decent leg break with enough practice?

Q2: I don't want to set an unrealistic time frame as to when I want to master it by, so from what I've read so far I think I need to approach it from the point of view of practising alone for my own satisfaction for about five years before I think about trying to bowl in any kind of match situation. Does this make sense? (The five years figure is based on asking my girlfriend how long it took her to reach black belt level in martial arts, which seems to me a good analogy for wrist spinning in terms of the skill, understanding and practice required)

Q3: So far I've just practised spinning the ball from right hand to left, but I've found that the "textbook" 2 up, 2 down grip doesn't seem to work for me - it's more like 3 up, 1 down. Would it be better to use whatever grip I feel happy with or is it worth the effort (and ensuing crockery breakages ) to practice the textbook grip until I can get it to work?

Q4: When practising from one hand to the other what's more important to begin with - a good amount of spin or a nice straight seam?

Q5: I haven't bowled at all for years so I'm pretty much starting from a blank page. I'm aiming to take it a step at a time, so I'd welcome comments on the following sequence of targets:
1 - Bowl the ball any old way without trying to spin it until I can bowl a reliably good line and length with a nice straight arm (when I was younger I was a bit of a Malinga, only with less control)
2 - Bowl the ball with a leg spin grip but without spin until satisfied
3 - bowl a basic leg break consistently
4 - bowl a leg break above the batsman's eyeline
5 - add elements of shape
6 - add variable pace
7 - work on basic and then major variations (avoiding the googly)
8 - Googly (while not neglecting other deliveries)

Q6: The only part of my garden that's long enough to bowl in would mean my run up was over a slightly uneven concrete surface - Do you think this will be a problem?

Q7: I was thinking of spinning some weights (about 1kg) from one hand to the other to strengthen my wrist muscles. Is this a useful or a terrible idea?

Finally and just out of curiosity as a former student of fluid dynamics, I know that the principle aerodynamic effect used by spin bowlers is the Magnus effect caused by the spinning of the ball, but is there any point at which people find the entirely different effects used in swing bowling come into play?

 

[Jim2109]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi all, I found the site through SomeBlokeCalledDave's excellent blog and hoped I could get some advice. My girlfriend's persuaded me to find a team and start playing cricket for the first time since I left school ten years ago. Initially I'm intending to just find a team and see if I can get into a team on the basis of my batting, i.e. not bowling at all, but I fancied learning to bowl as well and the more I read about leg spin the more it fascinates me - I think I've got the bug!

Anyway, every coaching video I've seen talks about the importance of learning things right the first time so there aren't messy habits to work out later, so I wanted some comments on how I intend to go about things. Before anyone mentions Philpott's book, I've ordered it and it's in the post...

Q1: Do you think any reasonably average person can learn to bowl a decent leg break with enough practice?

Q2: I don't want to set an unrealistic time frame as to when I want to master it by, so from what I've read so far I think I need to approach it from the point of view of practising alone for my own satisfaction for about five years before I think about trying to bowl in any kind of match situation. Does this make sense? (The five years figure is based on asking my girlfriend how long it took her to reach black belt level in martial arts, which seems to me a good analogy for wrist spinning in terms of the skill, understanding and practice required)

Q3: So far I've just practised spinning the ball from right hand to left, but I've found that the "textbook" 2 up, 2 down grip doesn't seem to work for me - it's more like 3 up, 1 down. Would it be better to use whatever grip I feel happy with or is it worth the effort (and ensuing crockery breakages ) to practice the textbook grip until I can get it to work?

Q4: When practising from one hand to the other what's more important to begin with - a good amount of spin or a nice straight seam?

Q5: I haven't bowled at all for years so I'm pretty much starting from a blank page. I'm aiming to take it a step at a time, so I'd welcome comments on the following sequence of targets:
1 - Bowl the ball any old way without trying to spin it until I can bowl a reliably good line and length with a nice straight arm (when I was younger I was a bit of a Malinga, only with less control)
2 - Bowl the ball with a leg spin grip but without spin until satisfied
3 - bowl a basic leg break consistently
4 - bowl a leg break above the batsman's eyeline
5 - add elements of shape
6 - add variable pace
7 - work on basic and then major variations (avoiding the googly)
8 - Googly (while not neglecting other deliveries)

Q6: The only part of my garden that's long enough to bowl in would mean my run up was over a slightly uneven concrete surface - Do you think this will be a problem?

Q7: I was thinking of spinning some weights (about 1kg) from one hand to the other to strengthen my wrist muscles. Is this a useful or a terrible idea?

Finally and just out of curiosity as a former student of fluid dynamics, I know that the principle aerodynamic effect used by spin bowlers is the Magnus effect caused by the spinning of the ball, but is there any point at which people find the entirely different effects used in swing bowling come into play?

1. anyone can learn anything with enough practice. its only ever a question of time. at club level i reckon you could get to a decent level within a year if you practice hard. even if you find you cant spin the ball that hard you can still focus on accuracy, and vice versa. there are so many different types of leg spinner that i think anyone could learn it in a reasonable timeframe. it will just vary from person to person as to what kind of method they adopt.

2. id say 5 years is excessive. it may take that long until you start to consider yourself as having reached somewhere near your full potential. but to use the martial arts analogy (at least based on the martial arts i know about) - the fastest way to a black belt is through competition. and the fastest way to get better in competition is to spar.

so initially you would be learning on your own, picking up moves. then once youve got a few moves you would start sparring to improve those moves and learn how to apply them against an opponent. and then you would start to compete in order to progress up the rankings.

lets take that back to cricket. you start out bowling leg spin by yourself (individual practice). once you start to get the hang of it you also bowl in the nets at a batsman (sparring), as well as continuing your individual practice. and when youre confident in the nets you play matches (competition). matches are important to the development of your bowling, as it is a LOT harder to bowl under pressure, but at the same time the batsmen are under the same pressure. in the nets its rare to find a batsman that values his wicket, and thus it is also hard to learn the tactical aspect of your bowling. the experience is important.

so id say play it by ear. start out spinning the ball between your hands. once you can spin the ball and have a basic grip start bowling it at a wall (underarm, roundarm or overarm works here. underarm is easy to see what your hand is doing to begin with). then start bowling it in the nets and work up to full distance. then just practice regularly for several hours at a time. bowl to batsmen as soon as you feel confident, but never stop bowling by yourself as well. and then go into a match situation as soon as you feel confident enough. i played my first match after about 3 weeks lol. i wasnt supposed to, but i showed up to a practice session and the midweek team was playing a T20 game and were 3 men short! i played my first planned match after about 2 months. in the 4 or 5 games i played i mostly got smashed all over the place, with the occasional spell of good bowling. but it was important development, and i learnt some important things about my bowling. next season im planning to humiliate batsmen from the outset lol, but i needed those preparation matches last season to familiarise myself with a match situation.

3. take a photo of your grip. the 2-up 2-down term can be confusing. i basically hold my hand out like im pointing a 2-finger gun lol, e.g. index and middle finger together, ring and little fingers tucked in to my palm, thumb pointing out. then spread the index and middle apart by an inch. place the index and middle on the ball so that the 2nd knuckle is over the seam, rest my ring finger alongside the seam, and then place my thumb on where it is.

if you literally have 3 fingers up, e.g index, middle and ring, then its definitely worth trying to adapt your grip now. the ring finger will be fairly straight which removes most of the leverage. there is more than one way to skin a rabbit, there are some guys on here that dont use their ring finger to spin the ball but instead their middle finger. but ultimately i think its probably better to start out with an orthodox technique, and then adapt to what is comfortable. orthodox is tried and tested.

4. both. but both come with practice. start out just trying to get spin, then once you find a comfortable grip and technique focus on adjusting the seam. you need it spinning first.

5. everyone has their own methods, and there is always debate on whether spin or accuracy are more important as the core of a good novice leg spinner. i personally believe you should spin it hard first, as accuracy will come with time and practice. but then im not very accurate or consistent despite spinning the ball very hard. there isnt a definite answer, you just have to start bowling and see where your strengths and weaknesses are. i would start out bowling leg breaks though. bowling straight encourages technique that isnt relevant to leg spin, and it might be hard to lose it later.

6. id start out without a run-up to begin with. but as long as youre not twisting your ankle i dont think it will matter what youre running on when you do develop one.

7. you could do that. i think youd be better off spending that time spinning a cricket ball though. if you want to strengthen the muscles then get a Powerball and spend 15 mins a day using it. ive found it makes a big improvement to your wrist and forearm strength. you can use it in your hand whilst doing a leg spin arm action as well and it will also strengthen the shoulder. do both arms equally though or youll have an imbalance and that can lead to injury.

8. yep. the flipper sometimes swings because the seam is straight and the trajectory is quite flat. ultimately if the seam is at all sideways the magnus effect outweighs conventional swing though so it still goes the opposite way.

those are just my thoughts, none of it is by any means gospel. everyone has their own methods and thoughts and ultimately youll learn what yours are. just get a cricket ball and spin it hard between your hands at every opportunity.

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Hi all, I found the site through SomeBlokeCalledDave's excellent blog and hoped I could get some advice. My girlfriend's persuaded me to find a team and start playing cricket for the first time since I left school ten years ago. Initially I'm intending to just find a team and see if I can get into a team on the basis of my batting, i.e. not bowling at all, but I fancied learning to bowl as well and the more I read about leg spin the more it fascinates me - I think I've got the bug!

Anyway, every coaching video I've seen talks about the importance of learning things right the first time so there aren't messy habits to work out later, so I wanted some comments on how I intend to go about things. Before anyone mentions Philpott's book, I've ordered it and it's in the post...

Q1: Do you think any reasonably average person can learn to bowl a decent leg break with enough practice?

Q2: I don't want to set an unrealistic time frame as to when I want to master it by, so from what I've read so far I think I need to approach it from the point of view of practising alone for my own satisfaction for about five years before I think about trying to bowl in any kind of match situation. Does this make sense? (The five years figure is based on asking my girlfriend how long it took her to reach black belt level in martial arts, which seems to me a good analogy for wrist spinning in terms of the skill, understanding and practice required)

Q3: So far I've just practised spinning the ball from right hand to left, but I've found that the "textbook" 2 up, 2 down grip doesn't seem to work for me - it's more like 3 up, 1 down. Would it be better to use whatever grip I feel happy with or is it worth the effort (and ensuing crockery breakages ) to practice the textbook grip until I can get it to work?

Q4: When practising from one hand to the other what's more important to begin with - a good amount of spin or a nice straight seam?

Q5: I haven't bowled at all for years so I'm pretty much starting from a blank page. I'm aiming to take it a step at a time, so I'd welcome comments on the following sequence of targets:
1 - Bowl the ball any old way without trying to spin it until I can bowl a reliably good line and length with a nice straight arm (when I was younger I was a bit of a Malinga, only with less control)
2 - Bowl the ball with a leg spin grip but without spin until satisfied
3 - bowl a basic leg break consistently
4 - bowl a leg break above the batsman's eyeline
5 - add elements of shape
6 - add variable pace
7 - work on basic and then major variations (avoiding the googly)
8 - Googly (while not neglecting other deliveries)

Q6: The only part of my garden that's long enough to bowl in would mean my run up was over a slightly uneven concrete surface - Do you think this will be a problem?

Q7: I was thinking of spinning some weights (about 1kg) from one hand to the other to strengthen my wrist muscles. Is this a useful or a terrible idea?

Finally and just out of curiosity as a former student of fluid dynamics, I know that the principle aerodynamic effect used by spin bowlers is the Magnus effect caused by the spinning of the ball, but is there any point at which people find the entirely different effects used in swing bowling come into play?

Anyone can learn to bowl leg spin but with most sports some are more naturally talented than others but stick with it and you will be rewarded. I think the most important thing is that you really need a passion for cricket and leg spin in particular as it's going to take a lot of repetition to achieve a good solid action that gets results. If you enjoy your practice you're half way there.

Setting a time frame for consistency is a difficult question as it is really down to you. Taking into account the amount of hours you can train, any skills you have at present and what your goals actually are mean that I don't think I can answer for you. It took me about a year to attain a stock ball that I was happy with but I'm learning new things all the time and am still working on many more things that I'm still not comfortable with.

Your grip is also very much an individual thing but I would say that I'm not sure you would ever be able to generate the revs on the ball over 22 yard with your little finger as the spinning finger. But if your can then that's fine there is no right or wrong method. You have one big advantage in that like you say you are a blank page, so maybe try the orthodox and then adapt it to suit you.

As for question 4 and 5 Spin spin spin. Spin the ball as much and as often as you can. Leg spin or finger spin without spin is medium pace if you want to be a spin bowler then spin the ball. I sure there are some that disagree with me but I think that learning to spin the ball is target number 1. If you learn to spin the ball you can add line a length through hard practice. if you do it the other way around you're opening yourself up to having to rebuild you action as you will find the addition of hard spin alters your balance.

Philpot’s book which you say you have ordered plots the typical leg spinner’s development in 8 stages I don’t see any need to deviate from this. He pretty much makes all the points that I have in his book so if you follow that and have the determination and patients then you can’t go far wrong. I was in the middle of writing this and saw Jim’s response which pretty much makes the same points as me. One point he made in particular is that orthodoxy is tried and tested and is a good place to start, if you have a good set of orthodox basics it gives you a good place to go to if things are going wrong.

 

[Paulinho]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling (Part Two)

Just something that I remembered from last season that I thought might be worth pointing out to anyone trying to learn leg spin.

If you watch Dave's video clip below you will see that when he flicks the ball his spinning hand finishes flat or horizontal with the back of his hand facing the sky, so his thumb, if it was sticking out, is effectively going in the direction he wants to spin the ball.

YouTube - Learning the leg break - spinning the ball - giving it a good flick

I was watching a young leg spinner at our club last year who was getting frustrated that he wasn't turning the ball, I had presumed that he was trying to bowl top spinners but he was in fact trying to bowl leg breaks, I asked him to spin the ball across his body like this clip and noticed his hand finished with the thumb pointing down with his wrist rotating over the ball (hope that makes sense) which is a top spinner or over spun leg break. Because it was going across him body to him this was a leg break. After pointing this out and getting him used to it he bowled some nice leg breaks. He had obviously memorized the feel of what to him was a leg break and was replicating this in his delivery. Although he was bowling correctly in view of what he had been practicing it just wasn't a leg break to begin with. He had told me previously that he just wasn’t a big turner of the ball but thought that he got lots of revs. After pointing this out he can bowl a nice big leg break but has gone a year thinking he couldn’t turn the ball. It just shows how little details will have a big impact and how important it is to learning and practice good basics from the start.