Wrist Spin & Captaincy

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someblokecalleddave

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Wrist Spin & Captaincy

One of the things that is omnipresent in a wrist spinners lot is the fact that his involvement in the game rests in the hands of his captain, team and club. The wrist spinners success rate is either enhanced or thwarted by the perception of the rest of his team primarily the Captain. If the captain, team and club have no appreciation or culture of spin within their club, the wannabe wrist spinner faces an impossible task that in most cases leads to them giving up the art.

Shane Warne once said............

"You need to be about best friends with the captain as he's the one that's going to be trying to keep you on. You need a lot of love from everybody because it's hard and it can be embarassing sometimes and you've got to have a bit of courage".

Even then if you overcome all of those problems it seems that you're seen as a secondary option when the seamers have failed you're then brought on for a 'trundle'.

How do the captains on here or those that you've played alongside really view the role of wrist spinners in their club games?

1. Does your club actively encourage Wrist Spinners.
2. Do you give your wrist spinners a chance to bowl even if you're aware that in doing so you put the outcome of the match in jeopardy.
3. Do you have coaches that can teach wrist spin and can bowl the 4 basic deliveries
4. Do you use wrist spinners as openers.
5. Do you acknowledge that good wrist spinners are the 'Jewell in the crown' of your team (Bob Woolmer).
6. Do you as a captain know about wrist spin and it's potential.

Let's here some feedback about captains and their roles and responsibilities to their 'Jewells in the Crown'.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

im not a captain, but in my one match ive played i got quite a positive response from the team.

bearing in mind id never met any of the guys before, was going along for my first practice session, but then found out there was a game on and they were 3 players short, so i got ordered to play lol. i said i was a leg spinner and had been learning for about 3 weeks, everyone seemed quite excited by the prospect and were asking if i was any good, etc. i played it down, obviously, seeing as i was barely putting in consistent practice sessions.

so anyway, we came to field and the usual bowlers were getting their overs, but nobody was taking any wickets. eventually they got one, but it was T20 and they were getting the runs fairly quickly. so the captain asked if i fancied a go, i said i wasnt sure how accurate id be, and he said dont worry, just have a try.

first 2 balls went wide but the umpire let them go as "looseners". 3rd ball came out perfect, drifted and ripped, the batsman hadnt seen me turn one prior to that so he just ran down the pitch and slogged, missed it by a mile and got stumped! he was their opening batsman as well lol. the response to that was very positive, and i got a 2nd over, then there was only one left in the match anyway otherwise i might have got one more. after the game people were asking the wicket keeper how much i was turning it, etc. they seemed quite excited by the fact there was a leg spinner playing.

so id say the club im starting to play for does support spinners, things would have been different if i hadnt taken the wicket and had been smashed for 20 runs off the first over though (it only went for 4, 2 were wides). there are 5 captains for the different sides so il have to judge each one on their merit when i get a game.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Jim let us know how you get on. Definitely sounds like a good start. One of the things I'm interested in is whether Captains ever look at the option of playing spinners with seamers in the opening overs a la Warne and McGrath.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Well here is a can of worms if ever I saw one :D

Let me just open it a little more to entice some 'considered' feedback.

It is true that the art of spin has/is experiencing a renaissance... unfortunately, this appears to be a well kept secret from some clubs/captains. Its use really depends on the knowledge and quality of the captain and his/her experiences.

The problem is, the use of spin depends on so many things. First of all, in the UK, the pitches favour seam. This is a different matter on the sub-continent. Also, the true art of spin is as much psychological as it is technical and a lot of spin wannabees really do not have the temprament.

However, this also means that the typical UK batsman has little experience against spin and if they go in gung-ho or hesitate, they are lost. A good reason to open with a spinner rather than waiting for the best batsmen who generally come in mid order ;)

Personally, I believe a team without at least one spinner is not a complete team. Having said that, I would not always put the spinner in, especially if the wicket was not turning of if the batsmen know how to use their feet :p

TBH, now is the time to use the spinners before the batsmen are coached to 'properly' play with the spin!
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

There you go! There's an endorsment to play spinners more fequently! Here in the UK at club level the experience of batsmen facing spinners is very limited - especially openers. They've been brought up on the prospects of having the ball bowled at them as fast as physically possible and would have been trained in that manner, so can you imagine the panic in their eyes when suddenly faced with someone who can spin the ball. Can you imagine the top order devastation that can be wreaked by a good spinner that turns it both ways and more?

Who would consider this option? What would you want from your spinner to open?
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Mathew Hayden's just pointed out that Pointing has just brought Marcus North on to bowl spin against Strauss and Cook with the new ball in the 11th over. The general consensus in the commentary box is that it's good captaincy and this is using a 'Part-time spinner'. As I write Cooks bowled and caught off North.

I rest my case.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

someblokecalleddave;361099 said:
Mathew Hayden's just pointed out that Pointing has just brought Marcus North on to bowl spin against Strauss and Cook with the new ball in the 11th over. The general consensus in the commentary box is that it's good captaincy and this is using a 'Part-time spinner'. As I write Cooks bowled and caught off North.

I rest my case.

on a pitch that wouldnt look out of place in India at the height of summer after a 6 month drought though, it has to be said. Stuart Broad was getting 80mph off cutters to turn back as much as some of my leg breaks lol

just imagine what Shane Warne would be doing to England on this pitch. it doesnt bear thinking about!! good job hes retired and Ponting made the mistake of leaving Hauritz out.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Jim2109;361103 said:
on a pitch that wouldnt look out of place in India at the height of summer after a 6 month drought though, it has to be said. Stuart Broad was getting 80mph off cutters to turn back as much as some of my leg breaks lol

just imagine what Shane Warne would be doing to England on this pitch. it doesnt bear thinking about!! good job hes retired and Ponting made the mistake of leaving Hauritz out.


I was going to challenge your drought claim, but checked it out and maybe this could be considered a small drought Rainfall Map 1: 06/2009 I'd say it was a fairly good summer rather than a drought.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Today in the county game between essex and surrey, Kaneria opened the bowling and took two wickets for 1 run in 2.4 overs reducing surrey to 6 for 2. So spinners occassionally do open the bowling even in first class cricket. Also if I remember well , Swann opened the bowling against the windies earlier this summer.

By the way rashid scored a century after taking 5 for 90ish. Looking good for the spinners in the uk. Even though they will collapse again tomorrow.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

In the couple of games I played last summer, the captain who is a legspinner, opened with two spinners, one of which looked like someone throwing handgrenades ie slow and lobbed, yet he got a couple of wickets for peanuts. The captain got 3 for around 15 off 4 overs in the 20/20 game.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Good stuff, now let's see more of it at club level. To me it makes perfect sense as Liz Wizard said above the club spinners are in a potentially dominant position at the minute off the back of the rise in popularity because of the Warne affect. The batsmen - openers in particular are not being drilled in facing good spin, so if club spinners can produce the accuracy and are given a go now is the time. Surely given the encouragement of their teams and captains all the Wannabe Warnes should all be developing into half decent spinners over the coming years?
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

sadspinner;361122 said:
In the couple of games I played last summer, the captain who is a legspinner, opened with two spinners, one of which looked like someone throwing handgrenades ie slow and lobbed, yet he got a couple of wickets for peanuts. The captain got 3 for around 15 off 4 overs in the 20/20 game.

This is part of the art of spin and its use. If you are to play one each end, you need a 'coiler' transferring optimum energy to the ball and a 'flighter' to maximise confusion. Good batsmen are quick to adjust :)
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

I agree. Not letting the batsman settle into a rhythm is the key. The more sport I see the more I believe that the best sportsmen have exceptional rhythm in their action. The fact that grimmett(Slower and loopy), with O'reilly (faster spin), explains why they were so successful together. No rhythm to the batsman leads to drying of runs leading to pressure of scoring leading to excessive risk taking and loss of wickets.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

sadspinner;361133 said:
I agree. Not letting the batsman settle into a rhythm is the key. The more sport I see the more I believe that the best sportsmen have exceptional rhythm in their action. The fact that grimmett(Slower and loopy), with O'reilly (faster spin), explains why they were so successful together. No rhythm to the batsman leads to drying of runs leading to pressure of scoring leading to excessive risk taking and loss of wickets.

The bloke I bowl with (Leg-Spinner) bowls inconsistently, trying to pitch the ball on the legside turning it in on the stumps which he does sometimes and it turns big as he has the Biggun. Whereas my bowling is off-stump consistent and varies in speed and flight and we work pretty well together too. But I like the idea of bowling spells with a quickie at the other end bowling with the wind and me into it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

someblokecalleddave;361141 said:
The bloke I bowl with (Leg-Spinner) bowls inconsistently, trying to pitch the ball on the legside turning it in on the stumps which he does sometimes and it turns big as he has the Biggun. Whereas my bowling is off-stump consistent and varies in speed and flight and we work pretty well together too. But I like the idea of bowling spells with a quickie at the other end bowling with the wind and me into it.

For the big leg break is the spinning towards yourself very obvious in his action? And how much do they practice in a week? I presume they will all tell you zilch hours per week.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

sadspinner;361144 said:
For the big leg break is the spinning towards yourself very obvious in his action? And how much do they practice in a week? I presume they will all tell you zilch hours per week.

He rarely practices and is very expensive some days and throws loads of wides. He says he spins it into himself, but I'm crap at detecting these things when I see other spinners bowl, it looks more like the new grip that I've come across in the last couple of weeks which is a pretty orthodox Leg Break I reckon.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

someblokecalleddave;361145 said:
He rarely practices and is very expensive some days and throws loads of wides. He says he spins it into himself, but I'm crap at detecting these things when I see other spinners bowl, it looks more like the new grip that I've come across in the last couple of weeks which is a pretty orthodox Leg Break I reckon.

Wides as in wides on the legside mainly?
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

sadspinner;361147 said:
Wides as in wides on the legside mainly?

All over the shop, especially after he's done it once or twice. But he has got a lot better but looking at the clubs stats he has bowled in excess of 100 + overs in the last few months so he should be expected to show some improvement.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

I think spinners really do need to prove themselves... they shouldn't have to but, unfortunately, it is the way of the World. Most pacemen do not understand spin, especially in the UK and it is a fact that most captains over here are spin shy.

If the captain knows he can trust his spin meister he may use him/her more... so great responsibility lies on the shoulders of the spinner and he must take it.

I would have no trouble putting a spinner in to open [with another spinner, or a seamer] but they must know when to come off. However, I speak as a manager not a captain.

As I said before, the spinner's strength is in confusion and this has a varying shelf life within a match.

For instance, if the batsman looks like he would rather be watching his next door neighbour's aunt's cousin's daughter's ballet class than face you, go for it.

If the only thing he can do is sweep, smile.

However, if he looks like he's got the measure of you and starts to use his feet, watch him.

If he starts to charge you and you can keep your cool; adjusting length, speed and width, carry on but watch your field; keep them close but leave a few deep in case he leans back and lets rip. Although if you have failed to plug holes, you've lost your cool. Take responsibility and step down.

Also, if you see the batsman playing with the spin, and you will be the best person on the field to see this [other than the batsman :)] by watching his wrists, call it a spell, sit out this batsman and come on again later. Don't wait until he has smacked you for 4s and 6s all over the ground. The captain will probably not understand and just think you're pants. He will not thank you and probably will not play you again.
 
Re: Wrist Spin & Captaincy

Some good stuff here from Liz. I've just written a bit in a new blog that I'm constructing along these lines, the gist of it being that it's your responsibility to ensure that you can produce results when given the opportunity to bowl. I also said that it's also your responsibility to acknowledge that you're out of your depth and quit your spell if the batsman is playing beyond your capabilities. As Liz says at the end what you don't want is your captain coming away from a match thinking that you're pants.

It's obvious that to be a wrist spinner you need to have incredible patience and constitution to take the bad days on the chin and then work on a solution and it's this need to be able to look at your art with a much longer view that I reckon leads to kids giving up the art of Wrist Spin. For instance I myself want to be able to bowl the Big Leg Break, but rather than rush into it and focus on it now within my training regime and possibly upset that, I have a plan and the short version of the plan doesn't see me using the Big Leg Break till May 2010 and that's only if I feel it's ready. I'm prepared for it taking me far longer!

But better that than trying to unleash it erratically in a game and jeopardising being selected the following week. Last year my bowling was poor and in the winter nets (with reasons that I've stated elsewhere) my bowling is of no consequence whatsoever. This led to me not being selected to play this season till well into May, my captain based my late selection on the basis of what he saw last summer and what he'd seen in the nets. In essence as a wrist spinner you're seen as being only as good as your last game.
 
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