Front Foot Position

phil2oo8 · 5 Jan 2009, 09:48

Hi,

Right when i bowl normally i know i bowl too much over my front foot like its closing my action (so like hoggard does). I know in Ponts book he say's this is wrong and he beleives that Hoggard could have been 4 or 5 mph quicker had he sorted it out..... but i think this could be why i get little niggles in my groin and hip on my left foot because i put so much weight on it in an uncomfortable position..... Also my front foot points towards 3/4/5 slip when i bowl and i don't think this does me ankle any favours.... so recently i tried to think more like Nel and Morkel by throwing my front foot out... this has got my front foot straight and alot more chest-on but i've dropped abit of pace but i've gained accuracy and bounce because its forced me bowl abit taller.....

Is it right what i have done?
Why has the pace dropped?
Is it the dodgy front leg/foot positioning from before thats gave me the little niggles?

Liz Ward · 6 Jan 2009, 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil2oo8

Is it right what i have done?

Unquestionably

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil2oo8

Why has the pace dropped?

I would need to see your action to be sure Phil. You have discussed your left side but not mentioned what your right side is doing. You can be sure it has changed but I would need to see how to help. Video?

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil2oo8

Is it the dodgy front leg/foot positioning from before thats gave me the little niggles?

More than likely

Try to monitor the niggles as you progress.

phil2oo8 · 6 Jan 2009, 10:57

yer il get a video up this weekend

wildthing · 15 Mar 2009, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil2oo8

Hi,

Right when i bowl normally i know i bowl too much over my front foot like its closing my action (so like hoggard does). I know in Ponts book he say's this is wrong and he beleives that Hoggard could have been 4 or 5 mph quicker had he sorted it out..... but i think this could be why i get little niggles in my groin and hip on my left foot because i put so much weight on it in an uncomfortable position..... Also my front foot points towards 3/4/5 slip when i bowl and i don't think this does me ankle any favours

I bowl like that too with the front foot point out. I haven't had any problem with it injury or bowling wise. In fact, when I tried to change it I lost all pace accuracy, bounce everything.

If it was giving you injuries you did the right thing. But otherwise I think you should just bowl however is comfortable and not worry about minor things like that.

How old are you? How long did you get these injuries from the front foot position?

Liz Ward · 15 Mar 2009, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildthing

I bowl like that too with the front foot point out. I haven't had any problem with it injury or bowling wise. In fact, when I tried to change it I lost all pace accuracy, bounce everything.

If it was giving you injuries you did the right thing. But otherwise I think you should just bowl however is comfortable and not worry about minor things like that.

I totally disagree and think this is a very sad piece of advice. Almost as if, ...if you are happy to exist, then don't bother to improve.

It saddens me even more that you believe footwork is 'minor'. Footwork is almost everything!

The average pace bowler who visits me, improve their pace by 'an average' of 7K instantly from small tweeks to their action; side-on bowlers even more.

You say you tried to change your footwork, what else did you change with it? Everything is linked in a chain, you cannot change one piece without it having a knock on effect. As for not suffering injury, again, you do not say what the rest of your chain is doing so, it may be fine for you, if limiting.

If you have a biomechanical malfunction, it is ALWAYS worth remodelling. The key is doing it right and getting the right advice. Unfortunately, this is difficult as most coaches are not qualified to do this.

phil2oo8 · 16 Mar 2009, 15:53

16,,,, agree with liz i've had no groin/hip problems since i changed it, my pace has gone up because it feels as if actually going through my action naturally then trying to force it through, the only problem was i had to drag me length back a bit because with the extra freedom i was overpitching/full tossing it but that was only about half a net to fix.

Just on a random, liz...
I've just finished this one on one coaching program and my coach was really impressed by the end. He said my follow through was deep and i was actually in the air as i follow thorugh which he was happy about. It was also straight which i've never done before properly so my accuracy is up...
the new problem is-

We've been working on my left elbow coming through properly, i used to windmill the non-bowling arm into the shoulder rotation but he wanted me to drive the elbow into the side in a sharper way then following through and i think this may have started my back to play up again. It also may be that because of my new follow through iv gt an anderson styled follow through( head down etc).... this also may be it i think. But i've put a good yard and a half of pace on which is makin me think it might be my back trying to get used to the changes. What do u reckon?

wildthing · 16 Mar 2009, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Ward

I totally disagree and think this is a very sad piece of advice. Almost as if, ...if you are happy to exist, then don't bother to improve.

It saddens me even more that you believe footwork is 'minor'. Footwork is almost everything!

The average pace bowler who visits me, improve their pace by 'an average' of 7K instantly from small tweeks to their action; side-on bowlers even more.

You say you tried to change your footwork, what else did you change with it? Everything is linked in a chain, you cannot change one piece without it having a knock on effect. As for not suffering injury, again, you do not say what the rest of your chain is doing so, it may be fine for you, if limiting.

If you have a biomechanical malfunction, it is ALWAYS worth remodelling. The key is doing it right and getting the right advice. Unfortunately, this is difficult as most coaches are not qualified to do this.

Thething is I have had bad expeirences with coaches. And not unqualified coaches but the high performence coach at the VIS.l

Liz Ward · 18 Mar 2009, 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by phil2oo8

...We've been working on my left elbow coming through properly, i used to windmill the non-bowling arm into the shoulder rotation but he wanted me to drive the elbow into the side in a sharper way then following through and i think this may have started my back to play up again. It also may be that because of my new follow through iv gt an anderson styled follow through( head down etc).... this also may be it i think. But i've put a good yard and a half of pace on which is makin me think it might be my back trying to get used to the changes. What do u reckon?

All are possible Phil

It could be the muscles getting used to the new movement but it could just as easily be something else.

On the face of it, the advice sounds solid, the problem is, I do not know what effect driving your elbow has on the rest of your body and would need to see it to give you a proper answer. I wonder whether it has caused a spinal flexion/rotation. When your elbow comes down, you need to keep your torso solid; activate your core so that there is no divation in your spinal line, either flexion or rotation. Try to get somebody to check this for you, or if you are in any doubt, send me a video.

Liz Ward · 18 Mar 2009, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildthing

Thething is I have had bad expeirences with coaches. And not unqualified coaches but the high performence coach at the VIS.l

The problem is limitation... or better still, acknowledging ones limitations.

Coaches are fantastic but are not qualified to remodel technique. You need to have a good understanding of the neuromuscular system and of movement at a cellular level.

For instance, I watched a batsman being coached at a very high level. His technique was great, however, he was using his bottom hand too much. What can a coach do in this instance?

I guess you, or others could come up with a never ending list of suggestions.

The issue was not technique... end of the coach's remit.

After five minutes observation, I could see that three muscles were misfiring and the humeral head was misaligned within the glenoid fossa. This caused impingement at 70 degree abduction at the shoulder, as the head was caught under the acromion process, so the bottom hand came in to play.

If a coach did manage to identify the issue, what would a coach do?

This could go on, but bottom line... see a specialist. If you went to a GP for a headache, you would not expect him to start brain surgery... however, some can, just as some coaches are biomechanically qualified so it is always worth asking.

wildthing · 18 Mar 2009, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liz Ward

The problem is limitation... or better still, acknowledging ones limitations.

Coaches are fantastic but are not qualified to remodel technique. You need to have a good understanding of the neuromuscular system and of movement at a cellular level.

For instance, I watched a batsman being coached at a very high level. His technique was great, however, he was using his bottom hand too much. What can a coach do in this instance?

I guess you, or others could come up with a never ending list of suggestions.

The issue was not technique... end of the coach's remit.

After five minutes observation, I could see that three muscles were misfiring and the humeral head was misaligned within the glenoid fossa. This caused impingement at 70 degree abduction at the shoulder, as the head was caught under the acromion process, so the bottom hand came in to play.

If a coach did manage to identify the issue, what would a coach do?

This could go on, but bottom line... see a specialist. If you went to a GP for a headache, you would not expect him to start brain surgery... however, some can, just as some coaches are biomechanically qualified so it is always worth asking.

That sounds a bit better than what I was getting.