Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

No it doesn't. It states it. It is a statement that is said with misleading authority, and it sucks in people like you who can't tell the difference.



Blaming the pitch and the balls is a much easier way out than actually facing the fact that our bowlers were genuinely sub-standard, surely? As for blaming the batsmen, that's just being contrary for the sake of being contrary (and attention, a technique many hack journos use in order to keep a job).



I still don't get how blaming members of the team is making excuses. The team is out there playing. The team lost. Surely blaming those in the team that failed is being realistic? A blind monkey (evidently more perceptive than your good self) could have seen that our bowlers were going to struggle against SA. Lee is out of sorts. Clark is battling injury. Krejza is inexperienced. We were always in trouble in that department, and people knew that. It has proven to be correct, with our bowlers struggling to take 20 wickets a match. Shifting the blame to the batsmen is just as much making excuses as blaming the bowlers (I don't think either would be, as I said above, but still), except that it is less logical. Add to that the fact that you've also brought in the pitch and balls, which is the definition of making excuses, and you've got a really shitty argument.



1. Ricky Ponting: It's not his job to tutor his players, particularly the bowlers (how many young batsmen have come into the side recently?) His job is to perform with the bat, and make good decisions with regards to the captaincy. He's not doing that.

2. Australia have lost their depth. Exactly. That's what people are saying. We don't have McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Langer or Martyn. That's why we're not playing as well as we used to. That's what people are pissed off about.

3. Your point? Are you saying we should be happy losing? We want to go out and win every game we can. When we lose, we want to know why. It's the same for any team. New Zealand lost to Australia because their batsmen failed to perform. That is a fair comment. It has nothing to do with past form. The same is true for Australia against SA, except for us, it was our bowlers not performing.

Seriously, how this all ties into a cohesive argument about the bowlers not being to blame for our loss is beyond me. Nobody is saying that "our bowlers failed, but we're still the best team in the world". People are saying "our bowlers failed, which is why we might no longer be the best team in the world".

Great post, great argument. You exploited the bad argument S2C has, and you didn't do it in a harsh way, you did it with facts.@|

 

[Caesar]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Great post, great argument. You exploited the bad argument S2C has, and you didn't do it in a harsh way, you did it with facts.@|

Suzi is a first-class troll. I wouldn't bother wasting your time, as excellent posts like the above are truly wasted on her.

 

[Buddy23#]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Suzi is a first-class troll. I wouldn't bother wasting your time, as excellent posts like the above are truly wasted on her.

Second that motion, have a poll who want's her to leave, who want's her to stay.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I think that the most important fact is that everyone is forgetting is that the team is actually rebuilding.... Hence the reasons why they aren't doing as well in the bowling and batting department......

 

[Jolldo87]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I think that the most important fact is that everyone is forgetting is that the team is actually rebuilding.... Hence the reasons why they aren't doing as well in the bowling and batting department......

Not going well in the batting department?

394 is pretty good by my standards.

I'm not sure what you want us to be making.

 

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I think that the most important fact is that everyone is forgetting is that the team is actually rebuilding.... Hence the reasons why they aren't doing as well in the bowling and batting department......

1)

• South Africa are also rebuilding.
• Australian Test Team average age: 30.63
• South African Test Team average age: 27.81

2) Even though we aren't playing as well as we used to, you would expect us to defend 413 and 394 when having the South Africans at 7 for 160 odd.

You keep having these unstructured arguments with people, about the pitches making us lose, or the inexperience of the side. You don't give a real reason as to why they aren't performing.

Having said that, No credit should be taken away from South Africa, they have played brilliantly.

 

[BabyBlues]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Suzi is a first-class troll. I wouldn't bother wasting your time, as excellent posts like the above are truly wasted on her.

Suzi? Suzi Olsen?

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Not going well in the batting department?

394 is pretty good by my standards.

I'm not sure what you want us to be making.

I am talking about guys like Hayden, Hussey and those who are getting low scores.....
If those guys that I have mentioned were actually in form we would have over 500 runs in each innings. At the moment, Hayden was out for 8, Hussey and Johnson out for ducks.
Lee probably won't be able to bat in the second innings because of a stress fracture that he got diagnosed with today....
Andrew Symonds was definately carrying a corked knee into the game. Can't bowl his medium pace can only bowl offspin if required and it is very limited.
Ponting had a back complaint and can't bowl. Is also prone to getting out early.
You can't expect Peter Siddle to bowl as well each day the same goes with Jason Krezja, Shane watson, Nathan Hauritz.
Stuart Clark is out injured. Might be back for the 3rd test but have strong doubts on it.
Bryce McGain... I wouldn't have chosen him at all. Too old. The selectors need to go with younger people.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Suzi? Suzi Olsen?

Ignore Caeser mate. He's trying his hardest to derail every thread.

I agree with your post btw.

Oh and to answer this one yes that's me.

 

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I am talking about guys like Hayden, Hussey and those who are getting low scores.....
If those guys that I have mentioned were actually in form we would have over 500 runs in each innings. At the moment, Hayden was out for 8, Hussey and Johnson out for ducks.
Lee probably won't be able to bat in the second innings because of a stress fracture that he got diagnosed with today....
Andrew Symonds was definately carrying a corked knee into the game. Can't bowl his medium pace can only bowl offspin if required and it is very limited.
Ponting had a back complaint and can't bowl. Is also prone to getting out early.
You can't expect Peter Siddle to bowl as well each day the same goes with Jason Krezja, Shane watson, Nathan Hauritz.
Stuart Clark is out injured. Might be back for the 3rd test but have strong doubts on it.
Bryce McGain... I wouldn't have chosen him at all. Too old. The selectors need to go with younger people.

That has nothing to do with the point Jolldo made.

394 is a good score. You would expect to defend it when having the opposition 7 for not many.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

That has nothing to do with the point Jolldo made.

394 is a good score. You would expect to defend it when having the opposition 7 for not many.

It has got everything to do with my point.

It's just that people like you are missing the point.

What is that point? We don't have the depth like we used to.....

394 might be a good score but against South Africa who are 2nd on the ladder are prone to passing that sort of total just like they did today.....

 

[BabyBlues]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Ignore Caeser mate. He's trying his hardest to derail every thread.

I agree with your post btw.

Oh and to answer this one yes that's me.

You agree? Given that I disagreed with pretty much every single point you tried to make, I find that hard to believe, and think it's far more likely a cop-out you've simply thrown in the air after realising you were totally and utterly defeated.

Anyway, see if you can guess who this is. 18. Lives in Sydney. Swans supporter.

Look into my eyes, Suzi, I don't care if you're mean to me.

 

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

It has got everything to do with my point.

It's just that people like you are missing the point.

What is that point? We don't have the depth like we used to.....

394 might be a good score but against South Africa who are 2nd on the ladder are prone to passing that sort of total just like they did today.....

And how does that relate to Australia not being able to stop the oppositions tail putting on a mammoth amount of runs?

Sure we don't have the depth, everyone understands that, it's like saying in football if you were 10 goals up at 3 quarter time and lose. Even if they didn't have a side with much depth, you would still expect them to win.

These people are proffessional athletes, they play this sport for a living, they should be able to put in better performances than this.

 

[Jolldo87]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I am talking about guys like Hayden, Hussey and those who are getting low scores.....
If those guys that I have mentioned were actually in form we would have over 500 runs in each innings. At the moment, Hayden was out for 8, Hussey and Johnson out for ducks.
Lee probably won't be able to bat in the second innings because of a stress fracture that he got diagnosed with today....
Andrew Symonds was definately carrying a corked knee into the game. Can't bowl his medium pace can only bowl offspin if required and it is very limited.
Ponting had a back complaint and can't bowl. Is also prone to getting out early.
You can't expect Peter Siddle to bowl as well each day the same goes with Jason Krezja, Shane watson, Nathan Hauritz.
Stuart Clark is out injured. Might be back for the 3rd test but have strong doubts on it.
Bryce McGain... I wouldn't have chosen him at all. Too old. The selectors need to go with younger people.

Once again you fail to understand a post and go on about something completely irrelevant.

You're correct, South Africa are "2nd on the ladder" so how can you expect us to go out and make 500 against them? They will be the highest ranked team in the world soon because they are an excellent all round side. Players making low scores is inevitable when you come up against a quality bowling line up. Hussey and Hayden performed under expectation but there were others who performed above expectations.

The only reason we need to make 500 runs is because of our poor bowling line up.

So, i'll ask you again, what do you consider an average score against the second best side in the world?

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

You agree? Given that I disagreed with pretty much every single point you tried to make, I find that hard to believe, and think it's far more likely a cop-out you've simply thrown in the air after realising you were totally and utterly defeated.

Anyway, see if you can guess who this is. 18. Lives in Sydney. Swans supporter.

Look into my eyes, Suzi, I don't care if you're mean to me.

I agree with you mate.
Of course I agree with you.

1. Ricky Ponting: It's not his job to tutor his players, particularly the bowlers (how many young batsmen have come into the side recently?) His job is to perform with the bat, and make good decisions with regards to the captaincy. He's not doing that.

You told me that Ponting shouldn't be tutoring the newer players, Mate I agree with you but the fact is they don't have a Junior Development coach so Punter has to do the job.

2. Australia have lost their depth. Exactly. That's what people are saying. We don't have McGrath, Warne, Gilchrist, Langer or Martyn. That's why we're not playing as well as we used to. That's what people are pissed off about.

Most people are wanting the success to continue. They just don't realise the depth that we did have has gone.

3. Your point? Are you saying we should be happy losing? We want to go out and win every game we can. When we lose, we want to know why. It's the same for any team. New Zealand lost to Australia because their batsmen failed to perform. That is a fair comment. It has nothing to do with past form. The same is true for Australia against SA, except for us, it was our bowlers not performing.

Yeah mate for a little while. Don't expect the aussie team to win games against teams that they used to easily beat.
Slightly off topic but related, remember Sydney when they took forever to string a few wins together in the AFL? That's where Australia is at the moment with bringing in new and some older players that haven't got many tests behind them.
Hawthorn were the same. I'm a hawks fan and we had people blaming the coach for a while. Found out that it was an aging list problem and not the coaching. Ended up sacking the coach and rebuilt the team. Look it took us 4 years to be able to be good again.

Seriously, how this all ties into a cohesive argument about the bowlers not being to blame for our loss is beyond me. Nobody is saying that "our bowlers failed, but we're still the best team in the world". People are saying "our bowlers failed, which is why we might no longer be the best team in the world".

People who say that are looking for the easy way out. Slightly off topic again but relevant to this. It's like having a new umpire going around and they make so many bad decisions that it's not funny. However, if they stick at the basics (ie batting or bowling), or with the umpiring(concentrating on giving people out with the right decision) they will get what they want and reap all rewards.
You can't expect the new guys to take all the wickets for the team. With the umpiring example you put somebody who umpires in the junior ranks into the elite level it takes time for them to adjust.

 

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I agree with you mate.
Of course I agree with you.


You told me that Ponting shouldn't be tutoring the newer players, Mate I agree with you but the fact is they don't have a Junior Development coach so Punter has to do the job.

Most people are wanting the success to continue. They just don't realise the depth that we did have has gone.

Yeah mate for a little while. Don't expect the aussie team to win games against teams that they used to easily beat.
Slightly off topic but related, remember Sydney when they took forever to string a few wins together in the AFL? That's where Australia is at the moment with bringing in new and some older players that haven't got many tests behind them.
Hawthorn were the same. I'm a hawks fan and we had people blaming the coach for a while. Found out that it was an aging list problem and not the coaching. Ended up sacking the coach and rebuilt the team. Look it took us 4 years to be able to be good again.


People who say that are looking for the easy way out. Slightly off topic again but relevant to this. It's like having a new umpire going around and they make so many bad decisions that it's not funny. However, if they stick at the basics (ie batting or bowling), or with the umpiring(concentrating on giving people out with the right decision) they will get what they want and reap all rewards.

Can't see how that is relevant, sorry.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Once again you fail to understand a post and go on about something completely irrelevant.

You're correct, South Africa are "2nd on the ladder" so how can you expect us to go out and make 500 against them? They will be the highest ranked team in the world soon because they are an excellent all round side. Players making low scores is inevitable when you come up against a quality bowling line up. Hussey and Hayden performed under expectation but there were others who performed above expectations.

The only reason we need to make 500 runs is because of our poor bowling line up.

So, i'll ask you again, what do you consider an average score against the second best side in the world?

Anything over 500 would do.
They are getting close to that. But after today's effort we couldn't bowl out the south african team. We tried using Peter Siddle who took a lot of wickets on Day 1. Only to find him stiff and sore.
If those players (Johnson and Hussey) that I mentioned that didn't score any runs actually make some runs(and I mean good runs, something like 40 and 100) and we go over 500 runs again that will make it hard for the South Africans who have to bat after us. For that to happen we need Everyone to fire up.
Until that happens we will have to wait and see what happens. Don't expect the aussies to do well with these teams. Look we might be 1st but we are just hanging there by a bees dick. We have got South Africa and India breathing down our necks and are looking at our number 1 spot.

 

[breeno]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Last time I checked, Johnson was in the team for his bowling, not his batting.

 

[Jolldo87]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

Anything over 500 would do.

Against the soon to be best side in the world? If you think we can get 500 each innings then your are delusional.

They are getting close to that.

100 runs off is a long way.

But after today's effort we couldn't bowl out the south african team. We tried using Peter Siddle who took a lot of wickets on Day 1. Only to find him stiff and sore.

But i assume our inability to take 3 tail end wickets isn't the fault of the bowlers?

If those players (Johnson and Hussey) that I mentioned that didn't score any runs actually make some runs(and I mean good runs, something like 40 and 100) and we go over 500 runs again that will make it hard for the South Africans who have to bat after us. For that to happen we need Everyone to fire up.

Everyone will never fire up in the same innings. That's the nature of the game. Everyone can't fire at once so your target of 500 runs against the South African bowling line up is completely unachievable.

Until that happens we will have to wait and see what happens. Don't expect the aussies to do well with these teams.

I expect our bowlers to do better than take the last 3 wickets for 275 runs.

Look we might be 1st but we are just hanging there by a bees dick.
We have got South Africa and India breathing down our necks and are looking at our number 1 spot.

We won't be first after this series as i've already said in my previous post.

 

[schwab2clarkson]

Re: Aussies lost let's take the easy option and point the finger at the bowlers

I've known that for a while, Jolldo87. In fact ever since we had the retirements of Martyn, Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist and Langer, Australia have had to blood talented players from the state level just to fill the shoes that those players that I have mentioned.
It's going to take a while.

Sure if you have put an actual bet on thinking that Australia would win the series (I know you haven't but some others might have) only to find out that they lost, then how would they feel? Guttered, disappointed.... you know the rest. They would probably be broke too.
Then you get the fans that become angry and post on here and on other sites making the same old excuses the whole time. (those people are the naive ones who always are so confident that their team will win everything, only to find that they expect too much from a team) There are some Essendon supporters on bigfooty who think that they will win the flag next year...... They will be disappointed only to find their team didn't win many games and finish down near the bottom of the ladder.