Dvca - How Do We Make It Better - A Bigcricket Going Forward Forum

[CowCorner]

DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

OK, I am stuck in NSW and felt like starting a new thread....

Having a look at recent posts and (some very good points/arguments) and the fact that the DVCA has released their 'what's your opinion for going forward' to all Clubs. I think its time the highly intelligent members at BC have input and rationally discuss the issues for our great competition.

Be rational, make sense and have a good argument (and always have fun). Try not to get personal and try not to be your club centric.

Some starting topics can include (but are in no way limited to):

** We are growing, should we continue, how should it be structured, when do we stop.

** 2 Piece Ball (is it time for a change, why? scores seem to still be made)

** All weather pitches (rate them, remember we will not be going back though (sorta governed by outside agencies here)

** Current rules (what needs changing, justify. Why do we have 18 pages of rules changes a year and when will we get it right (trust me thats about right)

** Umpires (ie why are they run buy umpires and who sees any umpires reports!!!)

** The executive and the DVCA committee as a whole, what should we expect out of them. What do we currently get.

** Sundays, most hate them, they appear more and more each year, how do we fix it, Has the DVCA and CV used its weight to improve and create grounds so they can be avoided. Do we need a Sunday comp only?

** On that does your council show preference to other sports/clubs. How can we all make them look after each other the same to even things out. Do we need to.

** Has Tongs ever said anything intelligent on this forum?

** Should BS have one day games, is it fair, how do we get away with out playing Sundays?

** Have I written to much?

** Should we have a 'minimum' for afternoon tea as a rule, I see some great ones and some really poor crap served. (although recently kudos to Epping and Research) Am I going over board now?

OK, well that's just a start, come up with others (I am in a Motel in Nowra and 3/4 the way through a bottle of Canadian Club) most adults here have a real passion for the DVCA and want to see all clubs and the comp strive for years to come. Here is your chance. As a Committee member for a Club (not hard to guess which) I will present the 'proper' BC suggestions OR (and more preferably) speak to your committee and members and get things happening. If all our clubs have a similar thoughts and ideas then we will effect change. There is no use coming up with brilliant shit here and that's where it stops.

Cheers

CowCorner

If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.
George S. Patton

(just thought the thread needed a quote)

 

[CowCorner]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

oh, and to save space, please try not to 'quote' this post as it will take up to much space....yeah I waffled on (go back to the Canadian Club part)

Just a thought

 

[cold case]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

Very interesting. No doubt this thread will receive some interesting thoughts over the next couple of days/weeks. What about you CowCorner, any major changes you can see that needs attention?

 

[bradfromeltham]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

I have always thought the idea that the DVCA is split into 3 divisions, with every side playing each other in a one dayer and a two dayer. This is going to be made harder by the fact that an extra two teams have been added to the competition.

It could work something like this for example

Division 1 - 10 teams (7 one dayers, 7 two dayers) (this could work on a rotating fixture ie the teams you dont play in the one dayers you have to play in the two dayers, im sure more thought could go into this???)

Division 2 - 8 teams (7 one dayers, 7 two dayers)

Division 3 - 8 teams (7 one dayers, 7 two dayers)


Ultimately this would make the comp alot more even giving some of the teams that rarely play finals a chance and hopefully preparing the team going from 2nd to 1st divison better prepared for the step in standard.


If they went to a system based something like this i know a lot of other associations are using colour clothing and white balls for there one day and 20/20 comps and im sure this would generate interest and sponsorship for clubs.

And how long is it going to take for the DVCA to start running a 20/20 comp? A knockout system of a friday night would be perfect. Im sure this would bring out the numbers to come down and watch while having a beer of a friday night?

The DVCA seem to be stuck in old fasioned ways and not keen to keep improving the competition which is a shame in my opinion.

 

[Tongs]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

** We are growing, should we continue..........

I think the DVCA are too money hungry and are happy to accept more teams into the comp to get more fees in. Yet they are not helping the smaller/weaker clubs to strengthen their teams. Ie Wattle Glen. How will a side like this survive when stronger clubs like Greensborough/Camrea come in.

** 2 Piece Ball .............

As a batsmen (term used as loose as CC’s arse) I would love to have a 4 piece ball introduced as it will make it easier. BUT I would rather keep the 2 piece. I prefer a challenge, and I don’t see the balls as a big issue.

** All weather pitches ..................

I actually don’t mind the synthetic pitches, its more how they are laid. And the concrete underneath some of them. The actual grass on them is fine, although I did like the older ones.

** Current rules ......................

The DVCA just want to be like the AFL and have a say in everything and change rules for no reason. There are some that need tweaking each year, but no need for 55 new rules each year. I like the rule that no new ball after 200 runs, but I do understand why people didn’t want it to go.

** Umpires ................

Umpires are run by umpires as no one else wants to do it. As for the umpires reports, they have no weight on where umpires umpire. It’s a boys club in the way that if you are liked you get the gig. The match reports have no bearing as the captain who wins gives a good report, the captain that loses gives a bad reprt (in most cases)

** Sundays, ...........

I think we do need a purely Sunday based comp, I actually love having Sunday games (not playing in them though) Its good to rock up to Lower Eltham on a Sunday, have a chilli and cucumber sanga (WTF) but don’t expect to use the male toilets, as usually someone has had a spew in there, and instead of them cleaning it, they just put out “out of order” sign. Its always a pleasure seeing the state that Burgs is in on a Sunday morning. It makes you feel better about yourself!

** On that does your council .....................

We cannot get the council to do anything. We are powerless against them, so don’t bother wasting your breath.

** Has Tongs ever said anything intelligent on this forum?

Have I said anything intelligent? Probably not, but at least I get people on here talking, even if its calling me a flog!

** Should BS have one day games, is it fair, how do we get away with out playing Sundays?

I love the one day games in BS, the only issue is, the same clubs kept getting the weaker clubs in one day games, therefore not allowing them to win outright, making it unfair! Its very hard to police! But I would like to see one day games on a regular basis in BS.

I'd again like to see a BS v MS game. Or a One side of Plenty Rd v the other side game. Once a year, to raise some money for a charity within the DVCA area. For example, the victims of Black Saturday.

 

[Bundoora]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

** Current rules ......................

The DVCA just want to be like the AFL and have a say in everything and change rules for no reason. There are some that need tweaking each year, but no need for 55 new rules each year. I like the rule that no new ball after 200 runs, but I do understand why people didn’t want it to go.

The clubs are responsible for this, not the DVCA.

 

[Thumbs up]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

One concern could be the regulations imposed in one council but not necessarily in all concerned (DVCA) councils. My understanding was there were discrepancies in the ability of clubs to have fixed, and possibly permanent, advertising at grounds and club rooms. This obviously goes to a concern relating to the ability of all clubs to compete on as even a financial playing field as possible.

 

[Tongs]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

** Current rules ......................

The DVCA just want to be like the AFL and have a say in everything and change rules for no reason. There are some that need tweaking each year, but no need for 55 new rules each year. I like the rule that no new ball after 200 runs, but I do understand why people didn’t want it to go.

The clubs are responsible for this, not the DVCA.

What about the rules the DVCA change without the clubs getting a say?

 

[Bundoora]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

What about the rules the DVCA change without the clubs getting a say?

Such as?

 

[Tongs]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

Such as?

I haven't got the excell spreadsheet infront of me, but you would have seen it! There is always many. Anyway...

I know you are a DVCA Exec lover so i'll leave you be

 

[cold case]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

I would like to see the clubs come closer together. A 20/20 competion would be a start. Maybe some double header intra comp matches? We are noticing now that Test cricket is on the downslide as far as interest is going. I still prefer it to any other form but we as a competion have to move with the times. Two days games over two weeks are in my opinion starting to grow old while we are dominating all the other local comps we should probably keep on the front foot with some new playing variations.
I am interested to hear what 100%Bull has to say, rather than just rebutting other people's thoughts.

 

[Tongs]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

By the way CowCorner while you are up there, go to Canberra for us will you. Get us some fireworks and porn.

I hear CC likes midgets and horses??

 

[cold case]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

By the way CowCorner while you are up there, go to Canberra for us will you. Get us some fireworks and porn.

I hear CC likes midgets and horses??

I've got a grouse midget dvd collection at home but the horses I left with the old marriage. How'd you know that anyway?

 

[Bundoora]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

I haven't got the excell spreadsheet infront of me, but you would have seen it! There is always many. Anyway...

I know you are a DVCA Exec lover so i'll leave you be

No, i just don't see a reason to "pot" blokes for no particular reason, especially if your facts are wrong.

The onus should be put on the clubs & there delegates, who are the people who end up making the decisions.

If clubs feel strongly about an issue/rules etc they need to work together to come up with an outcome and vote accordingly

That's why Stu Biddle and myself spoke/e-mail to all clubs two seasons ago about bringing back one-day games in Barclay & Money, because the clubs make the decisions, not the executive.

 

[100% BULL]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

I would like to see the clubs come closer together. A 20/20 competion would be a start. Maybe some double header intra comp matches? We are noticing now that Test cricket is on the downslide as far as interest is going. I still prefer it to any other form but we as a competion have to move with the times. Two days games over two weeks are in my opinion starting to grow old while we are dominating all the other local comps we should probably keep on the front foot with some new playing variations.
I am interested to hear what 100%Bull has to say, rather than just rebutting other people's thoughts.

You may say I'm a bit insular, but i like the way the DVCA is and are not in favour of many of the changes some people are proposing. Wether I am right or wrong is for the majority to decide.

A few responses to points people have raised...

I would support a 20/20 comp provided it didnt detract from the current competition.

I dont support increasing the size of the competition, I didnt support the recent new teams. I liked the older days when I we played all the traditonal DVCA teams each year.

One / Two day split comp? I dont support this, to me one day cricket is second rate. I think I heard someone on the radio show last year make a very good point, "you dont have to play well for as long in one day cricket".

Rule Changes? I think there have been some good rules proposed over recent years, moving kids to 13's, 15's and 17's being one, the trouble is most clubs either do not take the time to consider the changes or a apathetic towards the proposal. I would also point out as someone has already done that rule changes need a majority of clubs to vote them in, so rule change issues lay with the clubs not the dvca exec.

Does the DVCA do enough for the clubs? Based on my experience yes. The bigger question is what do clubs expect from the DVCA and what are they doing about getting it? From my perspective I believe the DVCA should be there to promote / assist in the promotion of cricket in the DV area, and everything they do should work towards that goal. Could they do more, of course they could, but they are delivering a reasonable service now.

Does the DVCA owe Wattle Glen anything? No. They were a bunch of rabble that just weakened the competition. From what I saw (and I lived in WG and played against them often enough) the work was left up to less than a handful of blokes, maybe they were still a young club that couldn't quite get of the ground. The DVCA has lost nothing, there are two pretty well run clubs within 3km's in either direction providing an opportunity for people to play.

How could we improve the DVCA? Good question. I wouldnt be focusing on the stricture of the comp or the format of games. I would firstly get agreement on what is the purpose of the DVCA administration, what is their mission? If it is as I would suggest, to promote the game of cricket, then I think the best way to do that is via the clubs at a micro level with some support at a macro level. From a micro level its about making life as we currently know it as easy as possible, and providing tools to the clubs to help them grow. From a macro level its about ensuring that there is a presence in the local community driving participation, its about lobbying local gvt to ensure we are getting the best possible deal in regards to grounds, paviliions, etc. There needs to be agreed objectives that are measurable. I know this is broad but I think anything more specific becomes to subjective. The AFL Commision isnt a bad example, they are all about driving participation, from Auskick up.

I'll finish by saying again, from what I see the BCC is pretty happy with the way the DVCA is run, we dont awlays agree with everything they do, but they get it right most times, I still enjoy play cricket in the valley, I think its one of the best comps around.

 

[spinnersclub]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

Although I have been in the DVCA for a short period of time , so far I think the comp is pretty impressive.
Removing the joke rule where you get a new ball after 200 runs was a good decision.
The comp should revisit the 4 piece ball idea or if they persist in using a 2 piece ball they should consider using a Kookaburra ball as it doesn’t swing as much.
Change the starting times for the one day games at the start of the year to 12.30 instead of 1.00
Left field idea but have the 2 bottom teams and top teams relegated and promoted.
I believe that the relegation idea will make Barclay shield a stronger competition.

" Duck for Cover " lol

 

[cold case]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

A very good post 100% BULL. I totally agree (how strange) with many points.
I cant see how the exec can tweak the fixture to expand it from what it already is. Maybe we could utilise tuesday or thursday nights to fulfill some sort of hit and giggle competition. Its got to be a break from the standard groundhog day effect of monotoneous mid week training?
I think it is time for the 4 piece ball to be introduced. I certainly dont like the no new ball at 200. I have always said that to impose new rule changes, the club Presidents have to form a sub committee that acts in the best interests of all clubs. This would cover new and old RCP's thus making it that much easier when voting time comes around.
My main concern is that there isnt enough quality being produced from the DVCA junior brigade. Contrary to what we read on the junior forums here at BigCricket the standard of Junior today is not that of yesteryear. How can it be when ridiculous limitations are imposed on them for their entire junior career. At Lalor we have a decent U/16 kid for the future who, of his choice wants to play seniors. He is going to be a good bowler with time and experience but at the moment is disillusioned with all the restraints put upon him. He would rather keep for his junior side so he can bowl his 10 overs in the afternoon. If an U/16 boy has to retire at 75, how many do they have to retire at in the seniors?

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

I for one think Sunday cricket is killing the comp. Certainly kills any social turn planned the night before 2 grades play on the sunday. 20 blokes just dont turn up when they have to play the next day.
The DVCA (and maybe clubs) need to work with the local councils to re-invigorate some of the 'lost' grounds. As as a youngster playing in lower grades at Bundoora, I remember playing on grounds like Warrawee park, Greenwood H.S, Watsonia PS, Partingtons Flat and the like. Yes some are small grounds but still grounds.
Look at alternative venues. McLeans park in Bundoora for eg has a large open space which is kept for...? Wack a pitch in the middle and there is an extra ground. I notice Yulong 2 is vacant nearly 50% of the Saturdays...? Are we fully utilising the grounds we have?
From what we can tell the DVCA comp is only about 6 grounds short of playing all games on Saturdays - there must be a solution ?????

Comp Structure - Think we should move to 3 divisions of 10 teams ( yes we need 4 more) and not start until 3rd week of October to allow clubs time to get organised. From room changeover with footy club to game 1, we had only 3 days this year.

This would mean only 9 x 2 day games and no one day matches. A delayed start allows footballers a break before the first game (maybe even time for their trips) and more time to arrnage practice matches if so desired. All grades could start the same week.

Agree with Unit about the restrictions affecting quality. Is differnet rules for batsman over bowlers but one is there for increased participation and one for safety. However the batting restriction does not carry into senior cricket. If players wish to play seniors, then maybe with a signed permission / waiver form they play as a senior player - not a junior.

'Bundoora' made the point previously that if clubs want something to change,then they need to get a group together to put a plan together and sell to all clubs.
This has proven successful before.

DVCA for mine, do a good job. Can always be better. Need to consider all are unpaid volunteers (except one) and are elected by the clubs. If anyone is not happy then vote them off or nominate yourself - easy.

 

[cold case]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

'Bundoora' made the point previously that if clubs want something to change,then they need to get a group together to put a plan together and sell to all clubs.
This has proven successful before.

DVCA for mine, do a good job. Can always be better. Need to consider all are unpaid volunteers (except one) and are elected by the clubs. If anyone is not happy then vote them off or nominate yourself - easy.

I cant see a coup happening in the near future. Ideally 3 people up the top would be ideal. Pres,Vice Pres and say a Junior Vice Pres. To have the best possible candidates, those positions would or should probably come from ex or current Presidents. Someone with a bit of knowledge and experience. Doesnt have to of course but highly unlikely that someone would put their hand up for these roles that has not been a high ranking official at a club at some stage.
For this to happen then 3 current people would have to relinquish their current status at their own club. Wont happen, and so that is when puppets and yes men are formed. How would these 3 go?
President - S. Biddle
V-Pres - I. Rutt
J.V.Pres - A. White
Treas - Who cares
Secretary - Who cares.

All are in touch with the times. All are playing or have played up until last year. Two were good players and the other is a Premiership player. There would be no Sundays other than Vets, and the kids would have their limitations lifted to the bear minimum. They may even find a way to make a quid without reliance from petty fines. Maybe even a DVCA picnic/match day that, if run properly should finance the League Secretary/Administrator on its own?

 

[Ex-Prez]

Re: DVCA - How do we make it better - A BigCricket going forward forum

Thanks for the nomination Unit, however as you said would need to re-linquish current role.
Think I am required another year or 2 yet.
Like the thought pattern though