If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman

Member
If you were Australia's bowling coach...

If you were Australia's bowling coach, what would you like to see change from our bowlers? What deliveries would you like to see them bowl and would you change their mentality? What other things would you do/work on?

I believe our bowlers lack a little variation.

For mine...

Johnson
Johnson bowls off cutters. He runs his fingers down the side of the ball (accross the seam). With a conventional grip he will always scramble the seam. So what not have him hold the ball in an unconventional way where the ball is held slightly cross seamed so when his fingers come down the side of the ball they are running down the seam. The ball would in theory come out with an unscrambled seam with a lot of angle and the posibality to hit the seam and cut and swing more.

I always wonder how fast he could bowl if he did have his fingers behind the ball when he released it. He must be losing pace by cutting the ball like he does. Could he bowl mid to high 150's?

Bollinger
Wouldn't really change a thing appart from trying to get a bit more angle on his seam like he used to have to get a bit more swing.

Siddle
Siddle when fit bowls between 145 and 150 km/h, with plenty of bouncers and fire. When that is not happening you know something is wrong and it's hardly happened all summer. For me he is not fit. He also needs to learn to move the ball. His seam has not been great latly and even when it is good it's a bit too straight. Perhaps a slight change in his action and how his right arm follows through?

Hauritz
Will never bowl a doozera so lets not mention it. I recon he needs a better straight ball. A back spinning seam up delivery similar to what graeme smith bowls would be good in his armory. This ball skids, goes straight and sometimes swings. It's good to see him bowling slower though and mixing up his pace.

Hilfenhaus
He's a great out swing bowler but he doesn't vary his deliveries enough. He doesn't bowl the straight ball enough. An inswinger might be good but perhaps he can't bowl it.

Harris
FFS don't change him. I have seen blokes like Lee and bollinger who were swing bowlers turned into seamers by the current coach and I am not a great fan of that. This guy has the ability to bowl fast and accurate swingers and seamers, he's a real find! Not many of our men have that skill and variation.

McKay
He needs to work on his line a little more and he needs to move the ball more. I'm not a huge fan of his action, looks to collapse at the crease a bit.

Watson
He's been great. Bowled accurate and is swinging the ball. He's finally getting away from the gun barrel straight seam and moving the ball aroun, it's good to see.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Don't get too excited about Harris. Plenty of bowlers swing it viciously with the white ball but have to rely on raw pace or seam in the longer format.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Caesar;386669 said:
Don't get too excited about Harris. Plenty of bowlers swing it viciously with the white ball but have to rely on raw pace or seam in the longer format.

Harris doesn't even have a full time 4 day gig with Queensland, so I can't see him playing Tests anytime soon.

Not to be judged yet, but he has nothing else to do in ODIs, bowled everything he did bowl well, and everything he didn't bowl, he didn't bowl it for a reason, because he knew he couldn't. He isn't fast enough for a menacing bouncer, so he didn't bowl it. You see some guys at 130km/h try to bounce someone out. The random one is good, but not as a plan. This is one example, he is a smart cricketer.

Not sure I'd go tampering with Johnson's action though, he has been getting plenty of wickets and the last time someone played around with his action he had the worst form of his international career in England.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Boris;386932 said:
Harris doesn't even have a full time 4 day gig with Queensland, so I can't see him playing Tests anytime soon.

Not to be judged yet, but he has nothing else to do in ODIs, bowled everything he did bowl well, and everything he didn't bowl, he didn't bowl it for a reason, because he knew he couldn't. He isn't fast enough for a menacing bouncer, so he didn't bowl it. You see some guys at 130km/h try to bounce someone out. The random one is good, but not as a plan. This is one example, he is a smart cricketer.

Not sure I'd go tampering with Johnson's action though, he has been getting plenty of wickets and the last time someone played around with his action he had the worst form of his international career in England.

ok harris is just coming back from injury, might explain him not playing much first class latly.

So he's bowled out swingers well, in swingers well, bowled some good seamers with bounce and movement with the old ball and bowled slower balls... What more can he bowl.

He bowls at around 145km/h and that's not quick enough?

The only thing i have against him playing test cricket is that he might not be that fit. He needs to prove his fitness perhaps. He has raw pace and seam, but does he have endurance?

The england tour with Johnson was nothing to do with his action at all, the poms played him well. They didn't chase his wide half volleys that he gets all his wickets with. They were flat decks that did not support his off cutters. Only bowlers who could stand the seam up can have success in england. IMO Johnson is an over performer, batsmen tend to get themselves out against him playing poor shots. Sometimes he cuts one or gets a wicket with raw pace but the rest of his wickets are due to the shit gets wickets rule. He's had a good indian series where he got cut of the wickets, good australian series where it bounces and cuts and a great south african series where he actually got the seam half standing up in awesome swing conditions. Johnson is a good bowler but he could be a damn lot better.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

If Johnson could learn how to consistently swing it back into a right-hander, he would be close to the best bowler in the world.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

a for effort;386971 said:
If Johnson could learn how to consistently swing it back into a right-hander, he would be close to the best bowler in the world.

spot on
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

a for effort;386971 said:
If Johnson could learn how to consistently swing it back into a right-hander, he would be close to the best bowler in the world.

Think thats why steyn is so goddamn good when he's fit. fast, accurate and late late swing. and a HOT girlfriend. soooo many reasons to hate him!!! :p
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

a for effort;386971 said:
If Johnson could learn how to consistently swing it back into a right-hander, he would be close to the best bowler in the world.

It's always the consistently which is the tricky thing though.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

spinner;387113 said:
It's always the consistently which is the tricky thing though.

True.

I think that inconsistency is Johnson's biggest weapon. If he doesn't know where it's going, then how the hell are the batsmen meant to guess? He is Australia's leading and most consistent wicket taker so I wouldn't want to be changing too much.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman;386634 said:
Hauritz
Will never bowl a doozera so lets not mention it. I recon he needs a better straight ball. A back spinning seam up delivery similar to what graeme smith bowls would be good in his armory. This ball skids, goes straight and sometimes swings. It's good to see him bowling slower though and mixing up his pace.

Hmmm I highlight this part. I will admit it now but the only two players I have disliked since they became part of the Australian team are Hauritz and Watson (Why I dislike them is for another thread and won't derail it) The point is I have been watching Hauritz for a bit and well his stock ball is his straight ball. I am not sure what you have been watching but when he slows down, gets a bit of turn that is the suprise.

If I was the coach I would get rid of him. But if he was to stay I'd send him to the nets, get Tim May out of retirement and teach him how to turn and bounce an offbreak because all he is getting out are the tail-enders too thick to relise they are straight-breaks.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

D.K;387134 said:
Hmmm I highlight this part. I will admit it now but the only two players I have disliked since they became part of the Australian team are Hauritz and Watson (Why I dislike them is for another thread and won't derail it) The point is I have been watching Hauritz for a bit and well his stock ball is his straight ball. I am not sure what you have been watching but when he slows down, gets a bit of turn that is the suprise.

If I was the coach I would get rid of him. But if he was to stay I'd send him to the nets, get Tim May out of retirement and teach him how to turn and bounce an offbreak because all he is getting out are the tail-enders too thick to relise they are straight-breaks.

pretty much agree with you D.K
its one of the reasons i was so shocked when Jason Krejza didnt get a longer try. true he went for 200+ runs on debut, but it was in India, against some of the greatest players of spin around the world. I mean if they have to deal with harbhajan in the nets, theyr gna feel confident out in the middle.

I have to admit his domestic record isnt too positive, but i think he would do better against top order players than hauritz.

perhaps i just feel sorry for the underdog...
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

TeeJay1860;387196 said:
pretty much agree with you D.K
its one of the reasons i was so shocked when Jason Krejza didnt get a longer try. true he went for 200+ runs on debut, but it was in India, against some of the greatest players of spin around the world. I mean if they have to deal with harbhajan in the nets, theyr gna feel confident out in the middle.

I have to admit his domestic record isnt too positive, but i think he would do better against top order players than hauritz.

perhaps i just feel sorry for the underdog...


Agree with Krezja very hard done. Had the flight and dip to do alright. Not sure what he has been like at domestic level this year but is consistantly getting a game.

I hate to say it but it feels the baggy blue came through with Hauritz (how he can be picked without a first class 5-fa astounds me...) and seem like it will happen again with steven smith. the kid is not ready to send down leg breaks for another a good while, needs more overs at first class level before being consdiered.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I can see why Smith is such an attractive prospect for the selectors. He's a quality bat and should have no trouble batting at 5-6 within a few years, and if he can get his bowling up to test standard then that leaves a spot open for another specialist bowler in the bottom four, as England have had with Flintoff in recent years. They really, really wanted White to be the player who could play that role but, whilst he still could make it as a batsman, he's never going to be a test-standard bowler.

I think it's important that they handle Smith with kid gloves for the next few seasons. Giving him a go in the odd T20 or ODI primarily as a batsman won't do any harm, but if they chuck him in the deep end as the specialist spinner too soon, it could have a lasting effect on him, as confidence is such a key factor in bowling leg spin.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

D.K;387134 said:
Hmmm I highlight this part. I will admit it now but the only two players I have disliked since they became part of the Australian team are Hauritz and Watson (Why I dislike them is for another thread and won't derail it) The point is I have been watching Hauritz for a bit and well his stock ball is his straight ball. I am not sure what you have been watching but when he slows down, gets a bit of turn that is the suprise.

If I was the coach I would get rid of him. But if he was to stay I'd send him to the nets, get Tim May out of retirement and teach him how to turn and bounce an offbreak because all he is getting out are the tail-enders too thick to relise they are straight-breaks.

hmmmm, dk you have really shot yourself in the foot here by saying the only two players you dislike in our team at the moment are our leading run scorer and our leading wicket taker...

Hauritz isn't a big turner of the ball but that really is not that important. Turn does not equal effectiveness. Flight and accuracy are just as, if not more important than turn. He bowls with great flight and accuracy and can do the job his skipper requires and so far has improved out of sight with his bowling and changes of pace plus the little extra over spin he gets now.
Krejza is only half the bowler Hauritz is, Krejza does 1 thing better than Hauritz and that is turn the ball but that is the only thing he does better than Hauritz.

Why so many people dislike Watson I don't know. He's a young cricketer who has always had potential but has never had the oppertunity to find form due to injuries. Now he has had a good run and found form and is one of our top run scorers and people for no reason don't like him. I think he's done a great job against the new ball and has bowled extreamly well, especially with his reverse swing and some of the wickets have been important break throughs.

You take Hauritz and Watson out you take out two of our highest wicket takers and run scorers, one being an opening bat. Who do you replace them with? An over rated batsman with a poor technique and shot selection in Phill Hughes? Krejza who underperforms for Tassie and can only spin the ball the ball better than Hauritz but can't tie a batsman down by bowling tight and has very little variation and doesn't seem to do a lot with it in the air. Also another point is that Hauritz can really bat where as Krejza can't.

If you were going to replace Hauritz it would be with Steve Smith but he has not poved to be a big wicket taker with NSW and I have doubts ove his accuracy and ability to bowl tight. I would however like to see Smith replace North and Hauritz remain in the side. I would like to see Smith start as a part time bowler and lower order batsman like North is. I think the combination of leg spin and off spin would also be very valuable for Australia as well.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I MUCH preferred Krezja after I first saw both of them, also at the domestic level as well. But lately Krezja has really been quite terrible domestically, so there is no hope for him playing.

I have been impressed with Hauritz, though. I know think he is the number 1 spinner in Australia (after McGain, but apparently guys just about to retire to a nursing home don't get games ;) ). The big thing he has improved is his variety and can now spin the ball almost as much as the best of them. How and when he does it is up to him, and he has done that well IMO. He is only going to get better. Expect to see him around for a while to come.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Krejza has a hell of a lot to work on. His accuracy and ability to tie up a batsman must improve. Punter wants a spinner who he can ask to do a job, bowl accuratly, bowl in certian areas & not get the close in fielders killed.

What annoys me is people get stuck in their opinions about athletes. Hauritz is now getting great results and turning the ball and bowling good top spin, getting bounce and great flight and a good variation of pace and getting wickets for not many runs but people still see him as the hack he used to be years ago. Same thing with Watson, now he's performing but no one recognises it and recognises that he has been our most important player.

What are people going to say when Watson wins the Allan Border medal?
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

Nobody has been questioning Watson's cricketing ability in the last few months, they've been questioning his 'being a good bloke' ability.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

I would think he can't anymore after being reprimanded (Watson winning the AB medal).

Other than that I agree with you gbatman.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

gbatman;387209 said:
hmmmm, dk you have really shot yourself in the foot here by saying the only two players you dislike in our team at the moment are our leading run scorer and our leading wicket taker...

Hauritz isn't a big turner of the ball but that really is not that important. Turn does not equal effectiveness. Flight and accuracy are just as, if not more important than turn. He bowls with great flight and accuracy and can do the job his skipper requires and so far has improved out of sight with his bowling and changes of pace plus the little extra over spin he gets now.
Krejza is only half the bowler Hauritz is, Krejza does 1 thing better than Hauritz and that is turn the ball but that is the only thing he does better than Hauritz.

Why so many people dislike Watson I don't know. He's a young cricketer who has always had potential but has never had the oppertunity to find form due to injuries. Now he has had a good run and found form and is one of our top run scorers and people for no reason don't like him. I think he's done a great job against the new ball and has bowled extreamly well, especially with his reverse swing and some of the wickets have been important break throughs.

You take Hauritz and Watson out you take out two of our highest wicket takers and run scorers, one being an opening bat. Who do you replace them with? An over rated batsman with a poor technique and shot selection in Phill Hughes? Krejza who underperforms for Tassie and can only spin the ball the ball better than Hauritz but can't tie a batsman down by bowling tight and has very little variation and doesn't seem to do a lot with it in the air. Also another point is that Hauritz can really bat where as Krejza can't.

If you were going to replace Hauritz it would be with Steve Smith but he has not poved to be a big wicket taker with NSW and I have doubts ove his accuracy and ability to bowl tight. I would however like to see Smith replace North and Hauritz remain in the side. I would like to see Smith start as a part time bowler and lower order batsman like North is. I think the combination of leg spin and off spin would also be very valuable for Australia as well.

How I shoot myself in the foot. I just said that my least favourite players in the side are Watson and Hauritz. Irrespective of their ability to take wickets or make runs, I am sure you haven't liked players in the past even if they were taking runs or wickets?

You have taking this topic way off so won't bother answering most of it.

BUt going through Hauritz 53 wickets of people that he has dismissed. I did some calculations of my own of if he got anyone of class out. Included were keepers and most allroudners. 37 of his wickets were players that batted below 7. Really that is terrrible. Front line spinners (especially in this day and age where the game is so rigged to the batsman and are having to bowl at the top order more and more) should be getting a lot more of the better batsman out.

It was evident in the Pakistan games that he is nothing short of a tailend bully.
 
Re: If you were Australia's bowling coach...

fair enough but a spinners main role is to get the tail out, it always has been, he's bowling out the tail and taking a few top order wickets, i think thats a more than respectable effort. With modern test cricket the tail tend to be able to bat a bit and if a tail is allowed to wag then generally you lose to that side.
 
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