Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Yeah I remember that.

Good times they were. I remember the commentary. "He tries to apologise, but Hayden is having none of it".

Simon Jones was looking down upon him because of his freakish height (Hayden not being short) and Haydos still managed to look taller and be looking down upon him.

Never take on the Haydenator.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

I thought Haydens reaction was fair enough, there was no need to throw the ball, it was nothing more than poor attempt at trying to act 'tough'. Vaughan had probably instructed his bowlers to hurl the ball back at the batsmen if it was hit to them to try and portray an aura of toughness.

Which if so, is the sort of crap we dont need in the game.

Hayden was justified in his action, offering a token hand of apology doesn't count for jack IMO.

 

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

That is exactly right, mirroring my thoughts there.

The only time a bowler should throw a ball at the stumps like that is if the batsman has walked down the pitch quite noticeably, like the Hayden leisurely stroll at the bowler, or has wandered out of their crease and not paying attention at all.

If the batsman is out of their crease, but only by a bit, and watching the bowler, there is no need for it. By the time the ball gets to the other end the batsman has plenty of time to slide his bat back in. From the pick up, to the release, to the ball being at the batsman's end he has about 2 seconds from a very good fielding effort. Plenty of time to make up 30 cm, unless they have danced down the pitch.

It's fair enough dummying to throw it to keep the batsman honest, like what Lee and Johnson do, but throwing it everytime is not cricket and should not be done.

Hayden had every right to do everything but physical contact to Jones then, because Jones in essence might as well have walked up and punched him.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

The simple fact of the matter is that Jones did a 'bounce throw', he hurled the ball into the pitch. If he was serioulsy aiming for the stumps he would he would have hurled the ball at the base of the stumps, ala what Harimson did to big Inzi a few years back when big Inzi was run out after hitting the ball straight back at the bowler.

Throwing the ball into the wicket makes it pretty clear its nothing but an attempt to act hard, in which case the bowler deserves every bit of abuse from the batsmen.

What next? A batsmen hurling his bat at a fieldsmen as the fielder gets under a skied shot?

 

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

He just threw it with no thought in mind as to where it would go. So yes trying to act the big man.

You make a good point with the batsman throwing their bat, because they would be out for obstructing a fielder, so why should a bowler not get the same treatment. Jones should have been given a warning, the same as if he had bowled a beamer.

I also remember Anderson doing the same thing to Hayden. Hayden had just played a back footed defensive shot into the ground back to the bowler. He was as far back in the crease as you could ever want a batsman. Anderson, being the big man and after being very frustrated at the fact that he just went for 17 off one over, hurled the ball at Hayden. It would have hit him in the hip. Hayden stood up tall and played a glance off his hips down to fine leg. Neither him nor Langer made an attempt at a run, and Hayden just looked at him for a moment then turned away, not fussed at all.

I remember it very clearly because he played that shot without looking at the ball once, never breaking eye contact with Anderson. That was what started my annoyance at Jimmy because of the way he conducted himself.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

It's probably because bowlers have been doing it for years, even the saintly Australians. If we're going to start England-bashing again perhaps find a real problem to wax about

 

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

It's probably because bowlers have been doing it for years, even the saintly Australians. If we're going to start England-bashing again perhaps find a real problem to wax about

We aren't ripping of the English, all countries do it.

We are just talking about the legendary Haydos. I wouldn't be England bashing for a start, but how many times have you seen Hayden face an Australian bowler in a test? Oh that's right, none. And which country did Hayden play a majority of tests against? That's right, England. And which country was the most fired up when he first them? Oh yes, it's England again. Which country is most likely to give examples of these things occurring? England.

I'm sorry for sounding condescending and all, and I'm not talking the piss out of you a for effort, but I am just getting a bit tired of people doing the same to me.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm sorry if I sounded condescending, but it just seemed like the conversation was veering dangeously close to 'Rag on the English team for everything', which seems to have happened in several threads post-ashes (not by you), and I didn't think we really needed another one.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

I started this thread so as so far as Im concerned I'll take it to whatever direction I see fit, this thread shouldn't be taken too seriously. That was the problem with 'other' boards shall we say, there was no leeway. Everything was so serious, there was no-where to have a bit of a rant and rave.

Whatever is said in this thread should be taken with a large pinch of salt, we are not bashing on anyone.

Just pointing out the 'double standards' if you like.

If that was Lee hurling the ball at Strauss there would have been a riot, but at the time it was described as 'fearless England standing up to bully-boy Hayden' when it was anything but.

If an Australian had done it the headline would have been "Ugly Aussies drag game into the depths".

It is an interesting study on how the same thing is described as 'fearless' and 'disgraceful' depending on who does the act.

As far as im concerned Hayden was within his rights to give Jones a spray, holding up a token hand gesture doesn't preclude you from coming a bit of abuse if you have done something wrong, which Jones definitely did.

Trying to excuse the act by saying that Hayden dishes it out verbally on the field from slip is irrelevant, which at the time was a common argument from the English hacks.

Interesting.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

If Lee hurled the ball at Strauss there would have been exactly the same reaction (ie: not much). Nobody seriously believes Simon Jones was trying to hit Hayden. If there's any team in the world who shouldn't have a persecution complex, it's the Aussies.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Come off it, Jones was trying to act hard, and to show the Aussies they weren't going to be intimidated. He almost certainly under instruction from Vaughan and/or Fletcher to do that if given half a chance.

Im just making the valid point that if an Australian had thrown the ball and hit young Ian Bell it would have been seen as the Aussies targeting the new young kid. Disgraceful would have been the call.

I dislike the England cricket team, and their journos, their reporting on that Ashes was an absolute disgrace.

I look forward to their arrival in 12 months on Australian shores, Im shore it will be a memorable series. I especially look forward to welcoming the 'mastiffs' in Anderson and Broad.

Two tougher men you are unlikely to see on a cricket field.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

AND FFS, change that avatar, everytime I see it i want to punch the computer screen in.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Come off it, Jones was trying to act hard, and to show the Aussies they weren't going to be intimidated. He almost certainly under instruction from Vaughan and/or Fletcher to do that if given half a chance.

So you are honestly saying that you think Jones planned to hit Hayden with the ball and then apologize profusely to him? I don't see how anyone could interpret that as an act of defiance. Maybe if he threw the ball at him, turned around and walked back to his mark, but that's not what happened.

Im just making the valid point that if an Australian had thrown the ball and hit young Ian Bell it would have been seen as the Aussies targeting the new young kid. Disgraceful would have been the call.

No it wouldn't. If the situation I described above occurred, then maybe, but when someone runs down the wicket and apologizes straight away it's pretty obvious to everyone that it was an accident and not an act of malice.

I dislike the England cricket team, and their journos, their reporting on that Ashes was an absolute disgrace.

AND FFS, change that avatar, everytime I see it i want to punch the computer screen in.

no

 

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Sorry for the outburst, it was more for the carryon happying on another thread.

I don't believe Jones was trying to hit him, but rather throwing randomly. You have probably done it before, have a target in mind, ie the stumps, but just throw hard and fast towards them with no real accuracy intended. So he might as well be aiming at Hayden.

I see the captain not exactly telling him to do that, but more to act tough, to scare the big bully Hayden, to give him his own medicine. That was the tactic every team used against him. I mean the short mid-on they used constantly against him, why? I never saw any good in it. But I noticed it was a bold statement. I've seen you try and bully us by absolutely pummeling the ball through here, you know what I'm going to put a fielder there, but not in defence. I don't want to look like a wimp. I'm going to put this guy right in your eye line, sneering at you. Hit it at him if you want, kill him for all I care, but screw up and your gone.

Obviously for a guy like Hayden it didn't work. The only time anyone was better then him was when he let them be, with his out of form runs that he had all through his career.

And a thing I have found with Brett Lee is that you can't use him as an example, he acts hard by getting a wicket and being a show pony, the chainsaw and whathaveyou. He doesn't throw the ball at the batsman, he sometimes dummys the through to keep them honest and make them shrink back to their crease, but doesn't throw it unless there is a reason.

The keep him honest throw at the stumps from my memory was started by the English. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that has only really been a big thing of the past 20 years, more so even later, and it was either the English or the Indians.

How often do you see Australian's do it? Ponting keeps the Aussies in line with his great sportsmanlike qualities. That's my opinion anyway. If it wasn't for Ponting the Aussies would be going crazy and hitting people with bats.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Im not saying Jones planned to hit Hayden, its not something you can really plan. Rather I have no doubt he was instructed to hurl the ball at/or near the batsmen if it was hit back at him, irrespective of whether Hayden was looking for a run or not. In that regard it was more of an opportunistic act designed to try and prove how tough the English team was.

The intention would not have been to hit Hayden, however if you start hurling balls back towards the batsmen there is always a chance your going to hit him accidently.

Any batsmen is unlikely to be pleased if his struck by a bowler that has hurled the ball at him for no reason at all, other then to try and intimidate.

For mine it was a perfect example of the double standards that exist when reporting on cricket, many journos said that moment was a pivotal point of the summer, the moment when Australia realised England were not afraid, or other similar hyperbolic statements you hear the likes of Roebuck, Barnes, Selvey and co say.

I am right, you are wrong.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Sorry for the outburst, it was more for the carryon happying on another thread.

I don't believe Jones was trying to hit him, but rather throwing randomly. You have probably done it before, have a target in mind, ie the stumps, but just throw hard and fast towards them with no real accuracy intended. So he might as well be aiming at Hayden.

I see the captain not exactly telling him to do that, but more to act tough, to scare the big bully Hayden, to give him his own medicine. That was the tactic every team used against him. I mean the short mid-on they used constantly against him, why? I never saw any good in it. But I noticed it was a bold statement. I've seen you try and bully us by absolutely pummeling the ball through here, you know what I'm going to put a fielder there, but not in defence. I don't want to look like a wimp. I'm going to put this guy right in your eye line, sneering at you. Hit it at him if you want, kill him for all I care, but screw up and your gone.

Obviously for a guy like Hayden it didn't work. The only time anyone was better then him was when he let them be, with his out of form runs that he had all through his career.

And a thing I have found with Brett Lee is that you can't use him as an example, he acts hard by getting a wicket and being a show pony, the chainsaw and whathaveyou. He doesn't throw the ball at the batsman, he sometimes dummys the through to keep them honest and make them shrink back to their crease, but doesn't throw it unless there is a reason.

The keep him honest throw at the stumps from my memory was started by the English. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that has only really been a big thing of the past 20 years, more so even later, and it was either the English or the Indians.

How often do you see Australian's do it? Ponting keeps the Aussies in line with his great sportsmanlike qualities. That's my opinion anyway. If it wasn't for Ponting the Aussies would be going crazy and hitting people with bats.

I am of the firm belief that the time is fast approaching that we see a fight break out on the field.

I remember a few years back Zaheer Khan brandishing his bat at KP in the gully when Khan was batting. At that moment anything could happen.

I also remember in 2004 Ponting was fielding at short-leg against Sri Lanka and a batsmen popped up a catch to Ponting (who caught it and was given out) but the batsmen instinctively tried to wack the ball again before it went into Pontings hands.

Those type of things can end up turning nasty.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Im not saying Jones planned to hit Hayden, its not something you can really plan. Rather I have no doubt he was instructed to hurl the ball at/or near the batsmen if it was hit back at him, irrespective of whether Hayden was looking for a run or not. In that regard it was more of an opportunistic act designed to try and prove how tough the English team was.

The intention would not have been to hit Hayden, however if you start hurling balls back towards the batsmen there is always a chance your going to hit him accidently.

Any batsmen is unlikely to be pleased if his struck by a bowler that has hurled the ball at him for no reason at all, other then to try and intimidate.

For mine it was a perfect example of the double standards that exist when reporting on cricket, many journos said that moment was a pivotal point of the summer, the moment when Australia realised England were not afraid, or other similar hyperbolic statements you hear the likes of Roebuck, Barnes, Selvey and co say.

I am right, you are wrong.

There are no double standards, you read the English press and you get an English perspective, likewise for the Australian press. Every team in the world has thrown the ball back at the batsman out of aggression or frustration.

You are not as right as you think you are.

 

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

Im not disagreeing, rather im discussing the difference in reaction.

 

[Boris]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

I am of the firm belief that the time is fast approaching that we see a fight break out on the field.

I remember a few years back Zaheer Khan brandishing his bat at KP in the gully when Khan was batting. At that moment anything could happen.

I also remember in 2004 Ponting was fielding at short-leg against Sri Lanka and a batsmen popped up a catch to Ponting (who caught it and was given out) but the batsmen instinctively tried to wack the ball again before it went into Pontings hands.

Those type of things can end up turning nasty.

Now I think a fight in cricket is the worst thing that could happen ever in sporting history. Seriously. The reason I have been turned away from NRL, AFL and any other form of sport really, is the stupidity they have on the field. They run around like a bunch of three year olds acting as the complete opposite of a role model.

A cricketer follows one rule, and one rule only. That is that the game MUST be played in the spirit of the game. Honest and integrity. It is a gentleman's game, one where not only the best players, but the best people get to play.

The day I saw my first baseball fight I was shocked and angry. That was also a game of such honesty and integrity, but ruined in the '60s. I still watch it because it is as close as you can get to a real sport, one that doesn't involve carry on.

That is why I love cricket so much, and why I wish players such as Anderson, Harbajhan, Ganguly, Siddle, Swann and a couple of Pakistanis and Sri Lankans that I cannot remember the names to, are in my bad books. They aren't honest and don't have integrity. They have no code of life.

That is why players like Ponting are picked for captaincy. You could see in the Harbajhan vs Symonds incident he pretty much ran in between of Roy, Haydos and Singh. He made sure he kept his bad boys in line, even though the guy on the other side was an absolute dick.

Captains must be picked that have that code, the honesty, the integrity. They must show these signs to ensure that not only can they play to their best, but they can keep their team the same way. Can Michael Clarke do that? Is Clarke one of them?

I have counted four times that Ponting has not claimed a catch when he could have. Ironically I have counted four times that Ganguly has claimed catches that he shouldn't have, one sparking my favourite sledge of all time from Gilchrist after given not out after Ganguly appealed the catch that didn't make his hands, and it came off Gilly's pads anyway, but he said: "It's an easy game with the replay". He was one of the true greats of the game because of his gentlemanlike game play.

 

[a for effort]

Re: Ricky Ponting's Australia - 2009 Champions Trophy Winners. Offical Praise Thread.

These days there are very few players with clean records going around. There's the few genuine nice guys that everybody loves like Gilchrist, Vettori, Kumble, Tendulkar etc, then the guys who seem reasonable but for one or two blemishes (Strauss, Collingwood and countless others), and then the absolute win-at-all-costs-throw-sportsmanship-out-the-door type players (Harbhajan, Ganguly, Haddin, and the majority of the Australian team from 1995-2005). The majority of players tend to fall into the middle bracket, as all it takes is one minor indescretion to tarnish a reputation.

Ponting's record is as spotty as any other player going around, especially throughout the 2005 Ashes and 07/08 India series. I'd put that down to letting the pressure of leading an Australian side on the decline, after a period of unparalleled success. Admittedly his sportsmanship seems to have gone through the roof in the recent years, as he seems to have learnt to deal with not being in charge of a team of world-beaters.

Personally I think there's room in the game for controlled aggression when it's done within the rules (bowling fast, intimidation with body language etc). It becomes a problem when gamesmanship manifests itself as cheating (IE: Haddin knocking Neil Broom's stumps over, Ganguly's claimed catches etc). Fortunately, with camera's being everywhere these days, these incidents rarely go unseen.