Subbies Thread

nancy

Member
Gees, one forfeit and the CSB trolls come running out. I had been enjoying the peace and quiet that followed Whale and co nearly losing their gigs at the CV AGM. How many forfeits in CSB this season? How many clubs have at least 4 teams? And before the trolls trundle out the old travel furphy, your comp runs from Port Melbourne to Bonbeach so pop that old chestnut in the bin where it belongs. If CV were serious about reducing travel, they wouldn't have 15 year olds in Premier 4th XI's travelling from Frankston to Geelong to Greenvale to Greensborough to Ringwood to Cranbourne.

BTW, in relation to VSDCA 4th XI's, some clubs remunerate or incentivise their Coach in part on the performance of XI's below the firsts, not a bad strategy I reckon.

I totally agree with your comments regarding the travel required in PREMIER 3rds & 4ths.

Putting premier cricket aside - I just think we could make the Subbies lower elevens function better for strong clubs and weaker clubs, which would keep everyone more engaged in the competition and cricket in general.

Happy to drive from Croydon to Moorabbin if there is a good game of cricket involved.
 
It's always an interesting discussion around this time of year about what to do with the 4th XI at VSDCA level. Subbies have tried a few things this year which I commend them on (i.e. One Dayers before Xmas, 40/40 split innings match)

4th XI - when used correctly - is such a critical cog for all Clubs. it's where you should be nurturing your younger juniors into Senior Cricket, and giving them a sense of presence and belonging to a Club as they transition to purely Senior Cricket.
I know some Clubs struggle to field a 4th XI, sometimes every week, but the finger can't be solely pointed at the Exec Level. Clubs need to own recruitment, player welfare, Junior Cricket transition etc in order to be successful.
 

nancy

Member
It's always an interesting discussion around this time of year about what to do with the 4th XI at VSDCA level. Subbies have tried a few things this year which I commend them on (i.e. One Dayers before Xmas, 40/40 split innings match)

4th XI - when used correctly - is such a critical cog for all Clubs. it's where you should be nurturing your younger juniors into Senior Cricket, and giving them a sense of presence and belonging to a Club as they transition to purely Senior Cricket.
I know some Clubs struggle to field a 4th XI, sometimes every week, but the finger can't be solely pointed at the Exec Level. Clubs need to own recruitment, player welfare, Junior Cricket transition etc in order to be successful.

you are spot on - but the most important things is turning up each week and having the opportunity of making some runs, taking some wickets and contributing to the success of the team. There are too many weeks in the season where that is not possible as the weaker teams are playing too far out of their depth.

Each club is a small community and we need to ensure that every part of our clubs are being nurtured and cared about
 

nancy

Member
Wouldn't making the 4ths all one day games solve the problems or am i being too simplistic?

I think the actual mix of cricket is ok. The problem with 1 dayers only is the fixture doesn't align with the 3rds and it also makes it harder to develop the younger junior players who cannot score as fast as the bigger older blokes.
 

westland

Active Member
It's always an interesting discussion around this time of year about what to do with the 4th XI at VSDCA level. Subbies have tried a few things this year which I commend them on (i.e. One Dayers before Xmas, 40/40 split innings match)

4th XI - when used correctly - is such a critical cog for all Clubs. it's where you should be nurturing your younger juniors into Senior Cricket, and giving them a sense of presence and belonging to a Club as they transition to purely Senior Cricket.
I know some Clubs struggle to field a 4th XI, sometimes every week, but the finger can't be solely pointed at the Exec Level. Clubs need to own recruitment, player welfare, Junior Cricket transition etc in order to be successful.
I wonder at times as to what some clubs regard as ''successful''. As you are aware, whilst the points system offers transparency, it does not provide an evening up of the competition between the ''haves and the ''have not's''. Where wealthy clubs are located in areas that are , say,''gentrified'' it may not be particularly easy for them to attract players for lower grades. That is the experience in the gentrified inner areas in the West. For such clubs, they may decide that a realistic definition of successful for them is to be consistently competitive at the senior level using their purchasing power to maintain that status. I am aware it is only due to the dedication of some key people at Yarraville C C that it attracts and retains players in it's lower grades.
 

Turf Cricket

Active Member
Gees, one forfeit and the CSB trolls come running out. I had been enjoying the peace and quiet that followed Whale and co nearly losing their gigs at the CV AGM. How many forfeits in CSB this season? How many clubs have at least 4 teams? And before the trolls trundle out the old travel furphy, your comp runs from Port Melbourne to Bonbeach so pop that old chestnut in the bin where it belongs. If CV were serious about reducing travel, they wouldn't have 15 year olds in Premier 4th XI's travelling from Frankston to Geelong to Greenvale to Greensborough to Ringwood to Cranbourne.

BTW, in relation to VSDCA 4th XI's, some clubs remunerate or incentivise their Coach in part on the performance of XI's below the firsts, not a bad strategy I reckon.
Maybe a few of you need to get your heads out of your arse, it's a dying comp and no promotion relegation has added to that.
 

Round the grounds

Active Member
Maybe a few of you need to get your heads out of your arse, it's a dying comp and no promotion relegation has added to that.
Thanks Turfie, insightful as always...

I see this years CSB is a real good one. Hampton and Bentleigh are in a do or die struggle to see who gets knocked out by South Caulfield in the Semi. And the battle for Runners Up looks a great one between Carnegie and Bentleigh. South Caulfield are going to need a carpenter down at Princes Park to upgrade the trophy cabinet. One win between the bottom two clubs, Chelsea obviously struggled with the travel.
 

westland

Active Member
Thanks Turfie, insightful as always...

I see this years CSB is a real good one. Hampton and Bentleigh are in a do or die struggle to see who gets knocked out by South Caulfield in the Semi. And the battle for Runners Up looks a great one between Carnegie and Bentleigh. South Caulfield are going to need a carpenter down at Princes Park to upgrade the trophy cabinet. One win between the bottom two clubs, Chelsea obviously struggled with the travel.
You are as aware as I that CSB was not part of CV's original regional plan. It was an opportunistic venture by CV to take advantage of the VTCA's failure to meet the needs of Bayside clubs and, in consequence, has significant shortcomings.
 

TheScorer

Active Member
Thanks Turfie, insightful as always...

I see this years CSB is a real good one. Hampton and Bentleigh are in a do or die struggle to see who gets knocked out by South Caulfield in the Semi. And the battle for Runners Up looks a great one between Carnegie and Bentleigh. South Caulfield are going to need a carpenter down at Princes Park to upgrade the trophy cabinet. One win between the bottom two clubs, Chelsea obviously struggled with the travel.
Not all that very different to the South/East group. Somebody here has said "Caulfield has more depth than the continental shelf. Thorne, Anthony, Rummans, Cross out 'cheaply', yesssss, we are into them here boys; nek minnit, the Denny and Warren show! Give them the flag now".
 

Round the grounds

Active Member
You are as aware as I that CSB was not part of CV's original regional plan. It was an opportunistic venture by CV to take advantage of the VTCA's failure to meet the needs of Bayside clubs and, in consequence, has significant shortcomings.
Not sure the CSB trolls agree with you Westland, they seem to think it is quite special.
 

Round the grounds

Active Member
Not all that very different to the South/East group. Somebody here has said "Caulfield has more depth than the continental shelf. Thorne, Anthony, Rummans, Cross out 'cheaply', yesssss, we are into them here boys; nek minnit, the Denny and Warren show! Give them the flag now".
Caulfield are seriously strong, I think 6 players with Premier 1st XI experience, two have Captained their club, St Kilda, and one of them is a Ryder Medallist who has played for NSW and VIC. So they should dominate like they have. The points system was likely adopted for that exact reason. The 7th and 8th teams in SE group have won 4 and lost 4, and are a chance to play finals. Same as CSB? Nah.
 

nancy

Member
The old boys at Subbies clubs are, I talk to quite a few younger lads and they're happy not to travel.

You clowns hijacked my topic!! If you provide competitive and even games of cricket in the lower grades, your young players will feel connected to your club and will then hopefully become 10 year plus players who move up through the grades and onto committees. Fingers crossed they have enthusiastic parents who can also contribute to the club
 

westland

Active Member
You clowns hijacked my topic!! If you provide competitive and even games of cricket in the lower grades, your young players will feel connected to your club and will then hopefully become 10 year plus players who move up through the grades and onto committees. Fingers crossed they have enthusiastic parents who can also contribute to the club
You have correctly pointed out the uneveness of the 4ths competition and have suggested tinkering with the structure to overcome the problem together with all clubs giving full support to the lower grades. No-one disagrees with your sentiments imo. It will be the practical outworking over the next season or two that will determine whether clubs take on board their responsibilities to the VSDCA to field 4 competitive teams. If not, the root causes of the problem will need to be identified as an initial step.
 
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