The batting powerplay

eddiesmith

Active Member
The batting powerplay

I have put this in the International section as I feel its the International teams who have NFI how to use it

Why are so many teams using it late in their innings? Surely in the last 5-6 overs of an ODI innings you should be scoring 40+ runs anyway, so why the need for the powerplay?

In domestic cricket its usually used before the 40th over, after over 35 or so with the ball change is a good one as it gives you some increased scoring before the death overs when you should be scoring quicker, I am sure the point of it was to increase the hitting at the end by a few overs, yet teams instead take it during that period?

The main problem is most of the teams who delay taking it usually end up losing their best batsmen capable of hitting big and its a total failure

Surely a team should be taking it when 2 batsmen are set and atleast 1 is capable of clearing the rope?

The worst I saw was last summer, Dussey and White both set, both wanting to take the batting powerplay, but because it wasnt the 45th over, Ponting refused to let them take it, end result a big Aussie loss with both batsmen falling a couple of overs later anyway

Tonights game is another example, Australia might have got 40 runs, but surely they should get that anyway? England of course ended up not getting use of it really as they lost 9 wickets before taking it

It seems International captains need to learn a bit about the batting powerplay, domestic captains know how to use it
 
Re: The batting powerplay

isn't this an argument for making the internationals play more domestic cricket?
surely it is not unreasonable for the international players to warm up for the Australian season by playing a couple of Shield and ODD games to share their experience and gain some insight into playing different styles. how much better a Captain might Ponting be if he had to Captain 2-3 Shield games a year of a team that, lets be honest, is a bit short on talent most of the time?
 
Re: The batting powerplay

I've seen Pontings captaincy of Tasmania, they are better off without him :D

Although Hodgey would love him to captain them everytime we play Tassie ;)
 
Re: The batting powerplay

i have a simple solution to this.

get rid of them. they are pointless and stupid. there is absolutely no reason to have it. ODIs were so good without them, now there is another complication that players and captains have to put up with. the first 10-15 overs should be a powerplay and that is it.

i like the idea of extending the batting order a little to compensate for it though. by the 32nd over you are likely to be 4/5 down in the game these days. that leaves only a couple of recognised hitters left and the tail. if you are to take it that late you must ensure that you have players down there because you expect to lose two wickets to be on the safe side. if you have a tail incapable of hitting big, unlike johnson for example, then you are screwed as soon as you lose those couple of batsman because the field is forced up and it stops the singles as the tailenders arent able to clear them or find the limited gaps.

one of the ODIs last year against south africa in australia where ponting and marsh were off to a flier and going at higher then 6 an over, people were predicting a 300+ score. instead they get around 150. after the first 10 overs, then inevitably the bowling powerplay, and you are scoring at that rate, why not take it then from the 15th to the 20th over? if you are scoring at six an over that early then you obviously dont want to change anything. keep the field where it is and go on your merry way.

and pick a player that is suited to the powerplay. if symonds was still playing, then he'd be it. even if he was batting at 4 then bring it on once he got himself set because he will destroy any side with it. but if that fails then play it normally.

matty hayden would have loved this powerplay idea. his dream come true.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

eddiesmith;364149 said:
I've seen Pontings captaincy of Tasmania, they are better off without him :D

whilst appreciating the humour in what you say isn't this an indication that he probably should not have been picked as Australian Captain?
does his captaincy problems stem from the fact that he has had little chance of learning the craft with a State side? i mean his apprenticeship for test captain was an ODI side that featured Warne and McGrath and Gilchrist and Hayden.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

Boris;364197 said:
i have a simple solution to this.

get rid of them. they are pointless and stupid. there is absolutely no reason to have it. ODIs were so good without them, now there is another complication that players and captains have to put up with.

what a fantastic, straight forward and simple solution. the ICC will never go for it because it solves all the problems without requiring a dozen committee meetings in exotic locations.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

bren122;364244 said:
whilst appreciating the humour in what you say isn't this an indication that he probably should not have been picked as Australian Captain?
does his captaincy problems stem from the fact that he has had little chance of learning the craft with a State side? i mean his apprenticeship for test captain was an ODI side that featured Warne and McGrath and Gilchrist and Hayden.
Although in fairness to Ponting, the tactics I am referring to would have been used by all the 'experts' after Hodgeys dismissal in Sydney, trouble was Ricky didnt realise that was a one off and Hodgeys weakness aint the short ball, probably another point to Hodgeys about mates sticking up for mates, if the captain doesnt get out to first class cricket often enough how can he know about the merits of players coming in other than the word of his senior team mates who play alongside some of them?

As for dumping the batting powerplays, why? They are a good idea, it works wonderfully in the domestic game
 
Re: The batting powerplay

Gentleman , Boris if they remove them then ODIs will be scrapped even faster than you can say choker. I particularly enjoy them but I think the problem is that it is not planned by the management of the team. I do not buy this nonsense of "we have faith in the 2 batsmen who are in the middle" garbage.

I think a few factors need to be kept in mind-
1. Is there 2 batsman that have a solid partnership at the wicket.
2. How many wickets do the batting team have in hand- I saw no point in what in England did in the last ODI - having bowlers in a batting power play makes no sense.
3. How is the wicket playing - is the bowl coming on to the bat which means that runs scoring will be easier or is ball seaming around on a greenish top?

What I have seen and what makes sense is taking it when the ball is changed during the 33 over. A newer ball team tends to get more edges and flies easier in all directions.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

i really see no point in them whatsoever.

it makes for a bad game, even at domestic level. it adds a depth that players and captains shouldnt need to worry about. its not a video game where a bonus round needs to be added. keep cricket the way it was and always had been, simple but amazingly complex. all it does is force people to throw away the game and their innings just to slog a bit.

even then all you see is the field pushed back on the 30 metre circle and lots of ones taken all round the ground. easy singles arent pleasing to the eye, and neither are poorly timed shots that just get knocked over the infeild for a couple of runs or even a four. they are mostly poor shots, or even good shots that would have been caught had there been a feilder where there should have been. i'd rather watch a batsman struggle through a few overs with really good and tight bowling, then get a couple away.

michael bevan was able to score at 10 an over without the batting powerplay. andrew symonds is able to clear those fielders. instead of adding these bonus rounds, that teams often dont deserve, just pick a couple of specialists that can do that and flip and flop them round the line up to bring them in when you need them.

3rd wicket down in the 30th over but your run rate slow? bring your big hitter or quick scorer like a hussey up from no.6 to no.4.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

I can see the logic behind using them late quite clearly. It's all very well to look at expected run rates and say that they'll already be scoring that quickly, but you have to look at how they score those runs. If you're in the last 10 overs, the field is back, but you want to go for a tonk anyway. With 5 fielders in the outfield, you're a great chance of being caught out there, or your risky slog only getting one run. If you take the powerplay, these risks are greatly reduced. Basically, a big shot is more likely to get you runs, and you're less likely to lose wickets going for them.

The problem for me is not the logic of using it in the last 10 overs, as if used properly it would be fantastically effective at this time. For me, it is not being adaptable with it. It is only really a viable strategy if the team has got at least one recognised big-hitter in reserve, and hopefully at least two recognised batsmen. If used with a bit of depth (and settled batsmen at the crease), the batting powerplay in the 46th-50th overs can be absolutely crushingly damaging. Batting with almost nothing to lose, with fielding restrictions in place! The problem is that when a side loses a few wickets, say between overs 30 and 35, they need to react to that and use it while they still can, and often they don't, meaning that by the time the planned time to use it roles around, they've lost a couple more and are into the tail, and it becomes useless.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

One of the other advantages though of using it earlier is a side will use the same bowlers they would usually bowl at the death during the Powerplay, so by taking the powerplay at the death you are playing into the oppositions hands with their bowler strategy

Take it earlier and then you will get crapper bowlers either bowling in it or during the death overs, a really good time is probably when the spinner is halfway through his overs
 
Re: The batting powerplay

Edward trys to make this like rocket science.

For mine the powerplays are simple to use.

The problem is that there is this thought that taking a powerplay means the batsmen have to start going helter skelter. Consquently, if you get off to a good start and your 1/120 of 20 overs then every man and his dog will be saying "take the powerplay".

The said batsmen take the powerplay and throw the bat and go from 1/120 to 4/140. I have seen it happen on various occasions, teams take the powerplay and its like its T20.

To complicated, keep it simple. Australia have been racking up scores of 300+ for years without powerplays.

For mine the best time to take it, if your batting first, is the 45 over mark. Here you can combine the happy hour period with a powerplay and you are quite capable of scoring up to 60 or so off those 5 overs.

Batsmen at that stage of the innings are carefree and throw the bat with the field up.

Taking it earlier often results in a collapse, derailing the rest of the innings all because the batsmen had this thought that the powerplay means all out smashing.

If your batting 2nd it is a bit tougher. South Africa agianst us earlier this year used it well. Chasing they took the powerplay late with wickets in hand and big hitters at the crease. It worked then.

I have also seen Australia when chasing take it earlier then the 45 over mark. I remember Ponting against South Africa in South Africa took the powerplay around the 30 over mark to catch up to the required rate, Ponting belted 4 fours off Steyn in one over, all great cricket shots, before being dismissed.

For mine the general rules are as follows:-

1) IF batting first take it at the 45 over mark.

2) If batting second take it when you need to catch up to the required run-rate, ideally take it in the last 10 over period.

The key is you need wickets in hand, because I have noticed that bring in a powerplay can often cause a cluster of wickets to fall. Consquently, your not going to bring a powerplay in at 5/120 in the 30th over.

Captains have to remember that calling a powerplay has its risks, taking it later negates those risks from derailing a innings.
 
Re: The batting powerplay

International captains need to take a page out of the domestic captains book when it comes to a few aspects of the shorter version of cricket. Notably Ricky Ponting...
 
Re: The batting powerplay

I thought England used the batting powerplay perfectly last night, over 37 with set batsmen at the crease and a hitter coming in next, they scored close to 50 runs off the 5 overs and set themselves up for a great final 8 overs of the innings after it
 
Re: ICC Champions Trophy 2009

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;366752 said:
Now thats how you take a powerplay, 68 runs off 5 overs. Get that into ya Edward, always best to take the powerplay late in the innings when the batsmen can just swing.
Take it earlier and you can get 320 instead of 275, Batsmen are swinging and scoring 10-12 runs an over in the last 5 overs anyway, whats the point of using the powerplay then?

If it wasnt a powerplay you dont think Johnson would have been clearing the fence with ease anyway?

Anyway Lee and Siddle should cause havoc on this pitch, West Indies may struggle to get 100

As for Paine, he is only holding the spot untill Haddin gets fit, will add some firepower to the top, then they could drop Watson for Hopes and the side is looking alot stronger
 
Re: ICC Champions Trophy 2009

LIONS then DAYLIGHT;366769 said:
Yeah then Siddle gets hit for 2 fours in 2 balls, gee Lee is frustating, you can always bank on Lee bowling a wide in his first ball or a no ball and going for at least 10.

Edward I think you have been well and truly PWNED on the powerplay business. Clearly it is better to take it late, the field is up, your swinging, you get max value for your shots. You dont get max value when the field is back.
Not really, the last 10 overs you are going for broke anyway, if the field is back you can score 12 an over without ever taking a risk, take it at the 35 over mark and you have 15 overs of scoring 10-12 an over, much better than 6. Besides watching Johnson he was hitting 6's straight over the fielders head, didnt make any difference that they had a powerplay

England used it perfectly recently and got a very rare 299 as they had 13 overs of high scoring
 
Re: ICC Champions Trophy 2009

As mine stands, keep wickets in hand and go hard for the last 12-15 overs

However at the same time it should never be set in stone, if you have a Cameron White and another decent batsman going well in the middle overs then it might not be a bad idea to take it then

The danger with leaving it to the last 5 is you lose wickets before then and it puts more pressure on tail enders to clear the infield when they can very easily score 2 runs a ball with the field back and the odd boundary
 
Re: ICC Champions Trophy 2009

The problem I have with taking it in the middle overs is the fact that whenever I have seen it taken during that period of the game it has resulted in a mini-collpase. The batsmen start thinking they need to hit out and often with the field up they play stupid shots.

You can easily go from 2/150 to 5/170.
 
Re: ICC Champions Trophy 2009

The batting powerplay is best used when there's the change of ball provided you've only lost two or three wickets to that time. Using it in the last few overs is pointless anyway as players are going to be trying to score maximum runs so a powerplay might only see an increase of 10-15 runs for the period with the field restrictions.

Like Eddie has said, I think trying to maximise the better run-scoring overs is the way to go. But you must be only a couple of wickets down in order to use the powerplay in that part of the game.
 
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