The Road to the Ashes 2009

[el-capitano]

The Road to the Ashes 2009

And so the crap starts...........Everybody can start laughing already at the Poms!

Kevin Pietersen leads the Poms to a few one-day wins and they start dreaming of the Ashes. Yet veteran English cricket writer Scyld Berry insists Australia should be worried.

It's going to be close. The gap between England and Australia has narrowed considerably in the past couple of months, even if it was by accident rather than their own design that England hit upon Kevin Pietersen's captaincy and a five-man bowling attack.

England end their soggy non-summer in rude health: In every format, they have the right mixture of experience, youth and scope to grow under a captain who pursues excellence with an un-English zeal. Australia have not only passed the peak that was personified by Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne, they are showing further signs of fatigue and decline. England to regain the Ashes in 2009? Steady on. Let's just say, at this stage, there could well be only one game in it, not five.

England might have been too self-absorbed to notice - too busy being dragged down to New Zealand's Test level - but in late May, an amazing event occurred.

It is one of the givens of cricket that Australians, whatever their weaknesses, can always bat and can always field. But in the second innings of their Test at Sabina Park in Jamaica, Australia collapsed to five for 18. Admittedly, one of those wickets was a nightwatchman; nevertheless, it represented Australia's worst statistical start in more than 70 years, since they had been five for 16 in the Ashes series of 1936-37. And whatever was done by the raw West Indians Fidel Edwards and Daren Powell, England have several bowlers who could do better.

The Australians, therefore, have already creaked at the seams, and that process looks likely to accelerate this winter. This is because some of them are serving two masters, both of them pretty greedy, so instead of being fit and raring to peak against the Poms by July next year, they will be as knackered and injured as England have been going into the past 10 Ashes series - except for 2005.

If England are lucky, as they were at Edgbaston in 2005 when McGrath stepped on a ball, Stuart Clark will be exhausted by the winter schedule, though he is sensible enough not to have signed for IPL, yet. Brett Lee will be 32 by next summer, and averages 40 against England. So whatever Australia's pace resources, they cannot match up to Steve Harmison, Andrew Flintoff, James Anderson, Ryan Sidebottom, Stuart Broad and Simon Jones, provided four of them are on song.

Quality used to be the objective of Australian cricket. Now, it seems, their board's objective is to cosy up with India and cash in. Australia were rescued at Sabina Park by Andrew Symonds, the same Symonds who was sent home from Darwin and dropped from the touring party to India.

Players playing too much and going off the rails: England have hit upon the formula to defeat Australia, by exporting their own endemic disease. Not everything in England's garden is lovely amid fears the dressing room may yield to dissent over the Allen Stanford money. Overall, though, England are narrowing the gap - and, for the moment, they don't even have to play for it to close further.

Why KP's England are posturing like it's 2005 - Cricket - Sport - smh.com.au

 

[Sean]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Oh dear, always pumping themselves up before every Ashes. 2007 was supposed to be better than 05, and it was... for us anyway.

Wait until the poms from sC come on to defend this.

It's funny that all of a sudden that KP has won a few games and now he's like the god for all England fans and that us Aussies should bow down to him.

Cringeworthy.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Pietersen's gone off early. Played very well in the recent one-day series against South Africa but they were outplayed in the test series although they did do well in the first test. Bowling attack is pretty weak, Anderson is ordinary, so is Broad and Panesar isn't that great. Harmison coming back into the side gives them a bit of bite and Sidebottom is pretty consistent. They need Hoggard back and they'll have a decent pace battery.

They aren't in the best of form in the longer version of the game, Pietersen's trying to deflect from the recent 2-0 loss at home.

 

[thematchreferee]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Pietersen's gone off early. Played very well in the recent one-day series against South Africa but they were outplayed in the test series although they did do well in the first test. Bowling attack is pretty weak, Anderson is ordinary, so is Broad and Panesar isn't that great. Harmison coming back into the side gives them a bit of bite and Sidebottom is pretty consistent. They need Hoggard back and they'll have a decent pace battery.

They aren't in the best of form in the longer version of the game, Pietersen's trying to deflect from the recent 2-0 loss at home.

There's very little chance of Hoggard coming back unless he does something exceptional in County cricket. I think they're looking to the future with the likes of Broad, backing up Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson & Panesar.

Hoggard's days are all but over, I would suggest.

 

[Ashes05]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Pietersen's gone off early. Played very well in the recent one-day series against South Africa but they were outplayed in the test series although they did do well in the first test. Bowling attack is pretty weak, Anderson is ordinary, so is Broad and Panesar isn't that great. Harmison coming back into the side gives them a bit of bite and Sidebottom is pretty consistent. They need Hoggard back and they'll have a decent pace battery.

They aren't in the best of form in the longer version of the game, Pietersen's trying to deflect from the recent 2-0 loss at home.

I would have thought that a bowling attack of Flintoff, Harmison, Sidebottom, Anderson, S.Jones who looks like playing, Panasaar, and Broad would be more dangerous than Lee who averages 40 against England, Johnson, Clark , Tait , Bracken, and some unknown spinner. Time will tell I suspose.

 

[Ashes05]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Pietersen's gone off early. Played very well in the recent one-day series against South Africa but they were outplayed in the test series although they did do well in the first test. Bowling attack is pretty weak, Anderson is ordinary, so is Broad and Panesar isn't that great. Harmison coming back into the side gives them a bit of bite and Sidebottom is pretty consistent. They need Hoggard back and they'll have a decent pace battery.

They aren't in the best of form in the longer version of the game, Pietersen's trying to deflect from the recent 2-0 loss at home.

It was 2-1 not 2-0 and had Smith rightly been given out in the 3rd test would have been 2-1 to England, Dont forget England also dominated the 1st test that was drawn and did lose the 2nd test after being put in on the first day in perfect bowling conditions. South Africa deserved their series win as they played more consistant cricket ,but I point these things out to show how things were tighter than you suggest.
Harmison wasnt playing in the first 3 tests and Flintoff was re gaining fitness and form. Look how the one dayers turned out with these guys back in form. Dont under estimate this England side. Have a look at Andersons figures when there is a bit of swing around. During the Eng V S.African series the commentators often said that he was the best swing bowler in the world when there is a bit of swing around (not my words ) and Justin Langer said recently that Flintoff is the best fast bowler in world cricket.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

There's very little chance of Hoggard coming back unless he does something exceptional in County cricket. I think they're looking to the future with the likes of Broad, backing up Flintoff, Harmison, Anderson & Panesar.

Hoggard's days are all but over, I would suggest.

What's Hoggard done to get dropped from the English side? I saw his county stats not long ago and they were looking quite decent.

I would have thought that a bowling attack of Flintoff, Harmison, Sidebottom, Anderson, S.Jones who looks like playing, Panasaar, and Broad would be more dangerous than Lee who averages 40 against England, Johnson, Clark , Tait , Bracken, and some unknown spinner. Time will tell I suspose.

It was 2-1 not 2-0 and had Smith rightly been given out in the 3rd test would have been 2-1 to England, Dont forget England also dominated the 1st test that was drawn and did lose the 2nd test after being put in on the first day in perfect bowling conditions. South Africa deserved their series win as they played more consistant cricket ,but I point these things out to show how things were tighter than you suggest.
Harmison wasnt playing in the first 3 tests and Flintoff was re gaining fitness and form. Look how the one dayers turned out with these guys back in form. Dont under estimate this England side. Have a look at Andersons figures when there is a bit of swing around. During the Eng V S.African series the commentators often said that he was the best swing bowler in the world when there is a bit of swing around (not my words ) and Justin Langer said recently that Flintoff is the best fast bowler in world cricket.

Broad is an unknown, has a test bowling average of 43.41 and that figure was pushing 50 in the series against South Africa. My guess would be that he'd struggle to get a game in front of those blokes.

Simon Jones also raises a question. He is coming back from a major injury, would he be up to playing test cricket? He has done very well in the county season from what I've seen.

Bracken doesn't play tests, for Bracks to play tests, a fair few quick bowlers would have to unavailable. Australia's obsession with having an all-rounder would mean either Watson or Andrew Symonds (provided he can get his act together) would have a place in the eleven.

My ideas of the bowling line-ups is this

Flintoff vs Watson/Symonds (all-rounders) - Give that one to Freddie).

Lee vs Harmison (genuine strike bowlers) - Lee's recent form is hard to go past, 58 wickets at 21.55 from the previous 12 months with the ball plus Harmison's still finding his feet after a period of time out of the side. Lee for mine).

Clark vs Sidebottom (The consistent line and length bowlers) - Clark is a mirror image of McGrath in terms of line, length and accuracy, every single ball is in the same area making him very hard to score off or get away. Sidebottom seems to be the same, from what I've seen and uses the seam much like Clark does. Clark has been superb ever since he started in the side, Sidebottom has been good but hasn't performed as well as what Clark has, Clark wins this one in my opinion.

Johnson/Tait vs S. Jones - Could go either way. Simon Jones hasn't played test cricket for a long time and it'll be a big test to see if he can get through a few top level games without getting injured. The other two can go one of two ways. The first is bowl genuine pace and absolutely destroy a batting order. The other is bowl absolute pies and go for 50 from ten overs. I'll call this one even.

Panesar vs McGain - Panesar is a serviceable bowler but is nothing all that special. However, he is capable of bowling very well and I've seen him run through batting orders with little fuss. McGain is a relative unknown, he has never played test cricket before so no-one knows what's going to happen but has done well at domestic level in Australia. McGain might not even be in the frame when the Ashes comes around. Australia dumped Casson after debuting him in the West Indies, there's no telling what they'll do. I'll go with Monty.

So, 2-2 overall with one tie. Pretty even in my opinion.

 

[el-capitano]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

So then it comes down to the batting then mate!

And really we're a long way from getting that finalised either- in terms of the Aussies.

By 2009 Hayden might be retired, Katich might've sealed his spot or be gone. Marsh might have been given a look. Its a bit hard to compare the two lineups when we're currently in a state of change in our lineup.

We might not be as good as 2006, but then who's to say the Poms will be as bad as 2006, or even as good as 2005? We'll have to see come closer to the series.

That being said- we're still gonna kick some pommy ass!

 

[Ashes05]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

What's Hoggard done to get dropped from the English side? I saw his county stats not long ago and they were looking quite decent.





Broad is an unknown, has a test bowling average of 43.41 and that figure was pushing 50 in the series against South Africa. My guess would be that he'd struggle to get a game in front of those blokes.

Simon Jones also raises a question. He is coming back from a major injury, would he be up to playing test cricket? He has done very well in the county season from what I've seen.

Bracken doesn't play tests, for Bracks to play tests, a fair few quick bowlers would have to unavailable. Australia's obsession with having an all-rounder would mean either Watson or Andrew Symonds (provided he can get his act together) would have a place in the eleven.

My ideas of the bowling line-ups is this

Flintoff vs Watson/Symonds (all-rounders) - Give that one to Freddie).

Lee vs Harmison (genuine strike bowlers) - Lee's recent form is hard to go past, 58 wickets at 21.55 from the previous 12 months with the ball plus Harmison's still finding his feet after a period of time out of the side. Lee for mine).

Clark vs Sidebottom (The consistent line and length bowlers) - Clark is a mirror image of McGrath in terms of line, length and accuracy, every single ball is in the same area making him very hard to score off or get away. Sidebottom seems to be the same, from what I've seen and uses the seam much like Clark does. Clark has been superb ever since he started in the side, Sidebottom has been good but hasn't performed as well as what Clark has, Clark wins this one in my opinion.

Johnson/Tait vs S. Jones - Could go either way. Simon Jones hasn't played test cricket for a long time and it'll be a big test to see if he can get through a few top level games without getting injured. The other two can go one of two ways. The first is bowl genuine pace and absolutely destroy a batting order. The other is bowl absolute pies and go for 50 from ten overs. I'll call this one even.

Panesar vs McGain - Panesar is a serviceable bowler but is nothing all that special. However, he is capable of bowling very well and I've seen him run through batting orders with little fuss. McGain is a relative unknown, he has never played test cricket before so no-one knows what's going to happen but has done well at domestic level in Australia. McGain might not even be in the frame when the Ashes comes around. Australia dumped Casson after debuting him in the West Indies, there's no telling what they'll do. I'll go with Monty.

So, 2-2 overall with one tie. Pretty even in my opinion.

Good summary, but I think Monty is better than you give him credit for. If you like reading cricket books, Monty's book 'Montys Turn' is a great read.

 

[Ashes05]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

What's Hoggard done to get dropped from the English side? I saw his county stats not long ago and they were looking quite decent.

Apparently he has lost a bit of pace, even though the swing is still there.

 

[Ljp86]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

So then it comes down to the batting then mate!

And really we're a long way from getting that finalised either- in terms of the Aussies.

By 2009 Hayden might be retired, Katich might've sealed his spot or be gone. Marsh might have been given a look. Its a bit hard to compare the two lineups when we're currently in a state of change in our lineup.

We might not be as good as 2006, but then who's to say the Poms will be as bad as 2006, or even as good as 2005? We'll have to see come closer to the series.

That being said- we're still gonna kick some pommy ass!

Keep a lid on it Cap!!

Good summary, but I think Monty is better than you give him credit for. If you like reading cricket books, Monty's book 'Montys Turn' is a great read.

Monty is a good bowler but in my opinion he has become less influential from when he first started in the team. Was taking a lot of wickets when he first entered the side but lately has seem to have dropped off a little.

The book might be worth a look.

Apparently he has lost a bit of pace, even though the swing is still there.

Harsh reason to drop someone.

 

[Trumper]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

I think that Ponting & Hussey will be a little nervous if a fully fit Harmison, Flintoff, Sidebottom & Jones are on the England XI team sheet for the first test.

I can honestly say that Australia have a significantly inferior pace attack than that given that Lee averages 40 against England all venues.

If they play Flintoff as a geniune all-rounder (which Australia simply doesn't have.. Symonds off fishing & Watson who?) then Monty slots into that side.. then you have this.. my probable side for Ashes 2009

Andrew Strauss (worked out a bit but still a dangerous opening batsman)
Alistair Cook (one of the most consistent opening batsman in the world)
Michael Vaughan (look out he hasn't got that captaincy millstone around his neck)
Kevin Pietersen (probably the finest batsman in the world in the moment.. & he's a British citizen)
Ian Bell (the future of English batting.. probably a better all round player than Michael Clarke)
Matt Prior (Ambrose unlucky but he looked great against the 4-0 smashing of South Africa)
Fred (don't need to say anymore.. he is a legend)
R. Sidebottom (the best left hand pace bowler in the world today)
S. Harmison (look out Grevious Bodily Harmison is back)
S. Jones (fit & ready to destroy the Aussie batting line up like 2005)
M. Panesar (everyone loves the turbinator)

Jimmy Anderson can switch with Monty, Collingwood with Vaughan and Stuart Broad will be waiting for someone to falter.. and he can really bat too.

Against..

Matty Hayden (like an old SS commodore.. good once but wearing out)
Phil Jaques (bit crease bound.. ball moving aka reverse Flintoff gone..)
Ricky Ponting (playing across that front pad against Jones he'll be lucky to average 39 with the bat like he did last time.. also getting a bit old)
Mike Hussey (has had a recent "adjustment" to his Bradmanesque test average- played a lot in England though)
Michael Clarke- (good player but in 2005 was susceptable to the swinging ball- Jones will be licking his chops)
Andrew Symonds (will be dangerous.. if he isn't pissed or fishing)
Brad Haddin (the good old days of the keeper averaging 30 are back)
?????- Do we even have a spinner as good as Panesar?
Brett Lee- (Average of 40 vs England.. not much of a threat. Will bowl too full on English wickets)
Mitchell Johnson (Crap.. nothing more needs saying)
Stuart Clark- ( A real threat.. but still to see whether he gets through like McGrath.. can imagine the poms will ride him and smash Johnson & Lee at the other end. )

So basically this team is weaker than the "wonder" team that got beaten in 2005 (with 2-1 being flattering to the visitors).. and England have discovered Sidebottom in the meantime and KP has developed into a true world class match winner.. and now captain.

I am thinking England 3-1 (with the Aussies winning the only one at Lords)..

 

[el-capitano]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

In defense of Lee- he is a much improved bowler these days, and i couldn't see him taking wickets averaging over 40 again against England currently!

 

[Trumper]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

In defense of Lee- he is a much improved bowler these days, and i couldn't see him taking wickets averaging over 40 again against England currently!

I don't know.. never really rated Lee much against good sides he is normally someone that bullies flat track batsman out with pace & bounce..

I mean with a test average of 29.58 you would say on paper that he is comparable to say an Andrew Caddick and probably not as good an all-round bowler as Darren Gough.

Sure he is quick but the real minds of Australian cricket will be looking at Stuart Clark to do the damage.. Brett Lee as an opening test strike bowler is fast but well.. pretty average. Both England & Australia have had WAY better than him.

 

[Ducks fly together]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

I love how these comparisons happen every year before an Ashes series.
I hate the foreplay, lets just play cricket. That being said, there is still 10 months for new guys to break into either test team, so I think the sides will line up different to your list there Trumper

 

[Trumper]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Maybe after Australia gets smashed in India there will be wholesale changes to our side, but England's test team has been pretty stable for a while now, Vaughan or no Vaughan..

If the latest results in India are anything to go by Australia seems to be on a fairly slippery slope down to mediocrity. And it will be good for cricket when they do slide.

 

[Ducks fly together]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Luv ya Trumper, your the eternal optomist.

I don't think we will get smashed by India, we will struggle, always do on their strips, but I think it will be a very even contest.

As for the england side, mate you and I have seen how the selectors over there really jump big time over any sort of form loss of players, especially with the Ashes coming up they will be mixing and matching alot trying to find their right 'balance'. Its always a great square dance to watch. Either way, looking forward to the Indian series first

 

[el-capitano]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

And now Botham speaks up!

Ian Botham believes the current England side can emulate their 2005 predecessors and regain the Ashes on home soil next year.

England great Botham, who changed the course of the 1981 Ashes with several stunning displays, believes his compatriots - thrashed 5-0 in Australia in 2006/07 - have the edge on their oldest rivals following the retirement of Aussie bowling greats Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne.

Fast bowlers Andrew Flintoff and Stephen Harmison are the only two members of England's 2-1 series-winning attack in 2005 still in the Test side at present but a typically bullish Botham told BBC Radio Five Live here Thursday: "I do believe we'll win quite comfortably over here.

"I don't believe they will win. I predicted it in '05 and I predict it again. We have the bowlers - the one thing Australia are lacking."

Paceman Brett Lee apart, former seam-bowling all-rounder Botham is not impressed by the remainder of an Australia attack which now features the likes of Mitchell Johnson and Shane Watson.

"They have Brett Lee. But after that, there's nothing; there's no spinner and no Glenn McGrath," said Botham on a day when Australia off-break bowler Jason Krejza took three wickets for 138 on Test debut away to India in Nagpur.

"There's no threat. If the (English) bowlers stay fit I think we will win the series."

England will beat Australia: Botham - Cricket - Sport - smh.com.au

 

[gbatman]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Last time we lost in England because McGrath got injured, we wouldn't play McGill or Hussey and we were carrying players out of form like Gillespie and Katich.
We had players who performed poorly in previous tours leading up to the 07 Ashes and they weren't dropped for in form players until after we lost the series.


This time we must not make the same misteak we made in India. We must pick our best side for the conditions.

Playing McGain and Krezja might be a good idea as spinners have always done well in England and against them. Last time we should have played McGill and Warne.
We need a swing bowler as the Duke ball swings more consistantly and swings more and the pitches don't seam like the Australian ones do.

We need to consider swing bowlers such as Hilfenhaus, Bollinger and Bracken.
Lee and Johnson need to work on their seam position so they can swing the ball when it's new, move it off the seam when the swing has stopped and swing the ball when it's old.
Stuart Clark should be given the oppertunity to find form as he can swing and seam the ball around.
Batsmen and bowlers who don't perform in Australia should not be taken to England. Batsmen who perform in the Sheffield Shield should earn a trip to England.

 

[D.K]

Re: The Road to the Ashes 2009

Another quality post gbatman

I feel that the number one ranked ODI bowler Bracken deservs a chance at the longer form of the game again. Can swing it with devestating effect in the shorter game and last time we were in England it was the lack of swing that cost us.

That and no-one being able to reverse swing it.