Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)

[Leggy88]

Thanks for the advice/encouragement doc!

I had a quick bowl in the nets today and had a go filming it, some from a standing start and some from my attempt to run in properly: Youtube Link

People say hearing the sound of your own voice played back to you is one of the most mortifying feelings, but it's safe to say this is worse

My own analysis is that by back leg seems to be kicking miles out while the top half falls away to the off-side. I wonder if my timing is also off kilter as I seem to be releasing very front on, whereas just looking at some videos of Warne ect now they seem to be releasing much earlier into the pivot. I also need to develop a consistent way of running in as everything feels very awkward at the moment. As ever, would appreciate any thoughts and advice!

One thing that may decrease accuracy in the short term (or it may even help, idk) but will help in the long term will also provide an immediate positive effect on the revolutions you are getting.

I noticed your wrist is not 'cocked' but rather in alignment with your forearm. When you are bounding up, up until you release, your wrist should be 'cocked'. Then when you release the ball, your wrist uncoils and rotates and combines with the third finger to spin the ball. Currently you are only using your fingers to spin the ball as I see it, if you use your wrist as well your accuracy may possibly decrease, but you will get so much more energy on the ball and that is the main thing about being a spinner. There is always time to improve accuracy later on.

If you don't know what 'cocking' the wrist is, here is a picture of warne:


See how his palm is bent inwards towards the forearm if you know what I mean?
Practice cocking the wrist, then uncoiling in hand to hand spinning practice. Once you get the timing right with the wrist uncoiling and the third finger snapping over the ball, you will never want to bowl fast again.
Hope this makes sense.

 

[Leggy88]

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging?

Wrong place to ask that question haha, but seriously if it’s the main thing you enjoy why stop it, it’s way easier to learn something if you have a genuine interest in it.

2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage?

Spinning your leg break as much as possible imo. But this I believe is a highly controversial topic on this thread.

3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action?

Legspin is definitely the hardest type of bowing to be accurate with but also generally the most rewarding. Practice will help for sure, but technique is also very important. If you want you could post a few clips of you bowling and people here are very knowledgeable with leg spin bowling action.

4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural)

No. Learn leg spin, bowl it in matches. It’s the best way to get better.

3. To an extent, your accuracy will be fixed by practice. I reckon with a flawed action a lot of practice will get you landing 4-5/6 balls on a towel area which is dangerous for the batsmen. However, If you really want to be pinpoint accurate without losing spin, yes you will have to fix up some parts of your action. But I wouldn't worry about that just yet in your journey, you need to get a consistent 'feel' for what an accurate delivery feels like in the release and your action.

 

[Leggy88]

One thing that may decrease accuracy in the short term (or it may even help, idk) but will help in the long term will also provide an immediate positive effect on the revolutions you are getting.

I noticed your wrist is not 'cocked' but rather in alignment with your forearm. When you are bounding up, up until you release, your wrist should be 'cocked'. Then when you release the ball, your wrist uncoils and rotates and combines with the third finger to spin the ball. Currently you are only using your fingers to spin the ball as I see it, if you use your wrist as well your accuracy may possibly decrease, but you will get so much more energy on the ball and that is the main thing about being a spinner. There is always time to improve accuracy later on.

If you don't know what 'cocking' the wrist is, here is a picture of warne:

View attachment 2828
See how his palm is bent inwards towards the forearm if you know what I mean?
Practice cocking the wrist, then uncoiling in hand to hand spinning practice. Once you get the timing right with the wrist uncoiling and the third finger snapping over the ball, you will never want to bowl fast again.
Hope this makes sense.

The use of the wrist is why leg spinners generally get more revs than finger spinners. So you need to use your wrist. Right now you largely are a finger spinner - add the wrist in and you will feel like a new bowler once you get to landing them right. But stick with it, this is certainly one of the most important aspects of the bowling action for generating revs.

 

[Bobble_Fell_Off]

One thing that may decrease accuracy in the short term (or it may even help, idk) but will help in the long term will also provide an immediate positive effect on the revolutions you are getting.

I noticed your wrist is not 'cocked' but rather in alignment with your forearm. When you are bounding up, up until you release, your wrist should be 'cocked'. Then when you release the ball, your wrist uncoils and rotates and combines with the third finger to spin the ball. Currently you are only using your fingers to spin the ball as I see it, if you use your wrist as well your accuracy may possibly decrease, but you will get so much more energy on the ball and that is the main thing about being a spinner. There is always time to improve accuracy later on.

If you don't know what 'cocking' the wrist is, here is a picture of warne:

View attachment 2828
See how his palm is bent inwards towards the forearm if you know what I mean?
Practice cocking the wrist, then uncoiling in hand to hand spinning practice. Once you get the timing right with the wrist uncoiling and the third finger snapping over the ball, you will never want to bowl fast again.
Hope this makes sense.

That's a really helpful spot, I'll have a go at working on that and report back

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Hi everyone. A brief update from me. All of my games have been cancelled so far due to weather or lack of players. So, nothing to report.

I have been trying to get match fitness in the nets. I think I am bowling okay, with reasonable rhythm, and reliable variants which are proper deliveries now and not all over the place.

I have pretty much cut out googlies, and bowl only leg breaks, flippers and this sort of skiddier one that goes straight on but I won't call it a "slider" because of Dave's ever watching eye hahaha.

I think the SKY commentators at least now call this a 'Nothing ball' or just 'The ball that skids on', I reckon they must have seen my rants as well!

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Bobble_Fell_Off I reckon Leggie's doing a good job here, but here's my penny's worth (or cents worth for you Aussies).

Questions:

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging? No, if that's the thing that interests you - go with it, you obviously like a challenge and if in the end it starts to come together, you'll find it rewarding knowing that you're starting to piece together what most will say is the most difficult discipline in cricket. Besides, I think this is the only thing you'll get feedback like this on the whole of the internet!
2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage? (1). Initially, spinning the ball hard, because you're not anywhere near a game yet. (2). Practice with focus and intention on specific things one at a time (3). Try and go straight towards the stumps avoiding over-rotation. Set out some cones as a guide to move through and within in your bowling action - go straight at the batsman; bringing your knee through rather than around.
3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action? Practice, more practice, then more practice and then even more practice. Read Peter Philpotts book 'The art of wrist-spin bowling'. Fixing your action see above. I'd also look at MacGills advice rather than the freak that was Warne. Trying to emulate Warne's action will lead you down a rabbit warren of issues.
4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural) I'm guessing you're an Aussie, in which case no, spend the whole of the off-season practicing your Leg-Breaks. You can do it, it's evident from the video, you just now have to spend the obligatory 8 years or whatever it takes to get half decent at it and grow some thick skin for when you do get into a team.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Bobble_Fell_Off

 

[Bobble_Fell_Off]

Bobble_Fell_Off I reckon Leggie's doing a good job here, but here's my penny's worth (or cents worth for you Aussies).

Questions:

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging? No, if that's the thing that interests you - go with it, you obviously like a challenge and if in the end it starts to come together, you'll find it rewarding knowing that you're starting to piece together what most will say is the most difficult discipline in cricket. Besides, I think this is the only thing you'll get feedback like this on the whole of the internet!
2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage? (1). Initially, spinning the ball hard, because you're not anywhere near a game yet. (2). Practice with focus and intention on specific things one at a time (3). Try and go straight towards the stumps avoiding over-rotation. Set out some cones as a guide to move through and within in your bowling action - go straight at the batsman; bringing your knee through rather than around.
3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action? Practice, more practice, then more practice and then even more practice. Read Peter Philpotts book 'The art of wrist-spin bowling'. Fixing your action see above. I'd also look at MacGills advice rather than the freak that was Warne. Trying to emulate Warne's action will lead you down a rabbit warren of issues.
4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural) I'm guessing you're an Aussie, in which case no, spend the whole of the off-season practicing your Leg-Breaks. You can do it, it's evident from the video, you just now have to spend the obligatory 8 years or whatever it takes to get half decent at it and grow some thick skin for when you do get into a team.

Thanks Dave - you guessed wrong, I'm actually from Sussex! In terms of avoiding over rotation and bringing the knee through rather than swinging round, are there any drills or even ways to visualise this while bowling that might be helpful? I've seen bowlers practice their bowling from right beside the net in order to force their action to straighten - I might give that a try.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Thanks Dave - you guessed wrong, I'm actually from Sussex! In terms of avoiding over rotation and bringing the knee through rather than swinging round, are there any drills or even ways to visualise this while bowling that might be helpful? I've seen bowlers practice their bowling from right beside the net in order to force their action to straighten - I might give that a try.

Blimey almost local to me! I've spent a lot of time in Sussex over the years, we used to holiday at my Nans in Hastings, my sister still lives there and I've got distant relatives that live in Breed, so all East Sussex. With the over rotation I think one of the standard ways is to do something similar to what you've suggested - put a traffic cone or something equally big in the position where your leg would swing out - this should force you to push your knee through and over your pivoting foot at FFC (Front foot contact). So does that mean you'll be playing this season?

 

[Fleetwood]

Welcome Bobble! You're in a very similar place to where I was about a year/18months back , and have already received some good advice - this place is a great find for an aspiring spinner. Your action is very much like mine when I started - I suspect it's changed a bit now, but I need to film it - probably not changed as much as I think. I've been putting it off because seeing yourself on film is a horrible business, but it's very educational & brilliant for feedback , so you've done already. I'm not really experienced enough to give advice, but that's not going to stop me:

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging? - Well, you're doing exactly what I am, with the difference that I'm 46 instead of in my 20s , so I must be a lot more deluded than you I've been back bowling for about 18 months (having tried very briefly 20-odd yrs ago)& have been bowling in (friendly) games since last year. It is a steep learning curve and needs a lot of work to get to the point of competence - I think you need a certain level of obsession to persevere with it , but suspect that probably already have that, or you wouldn't be here. If you love it, it's not work , and if you work at it enough, you will improve. Do you have a club, or regular access to nets?
2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage? Some great advice re alignment and wrist position from Leggy88, Doc & Dave there, and agree with all of it. Watching your video, alignment does jump out a bit - your weight is going down the offside, rather than down the pitch as you would like.
3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action?
4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural) This is the only bit where I'd slightly disagree with previous answers, but only very slightly - I don't see the harm in mixing it up a very little bit, as long as you don't lose focus on your wristspin, which you obviously have aptitude for. I bowl a bit of very medium pace as a warm-up/occasional variation in the nets, but I spend hardly any time on it and certainly wouldn't use it in a game. It might have been of marginal benefit in teaching me to speed my arm action a bit, but really it's just a for a laugh. If you're a complete beginner & want to get game ready, you'd probably be better off working on your batting and fielding if you can.

 

[Bobble_Fell_Off]

Blimey almost local to me! I've spent a lot of time in Sussex over the years, we used to holiday at my Nans in Hastings, my sister still lives there and I've got distant relatives that live in Breed, so all East Sussex. With the over rotation I think one of the standard ways is to do something similar to what you've suggested - put a traffic cone or something equally big in the position where your leg would swing out - this should force you to push your knee through and over your pivoting foot at FFC (Front foot contact). So does that mean you'll be playing this season?

Oh, wow it's a small world, I grew up near Breed and spent a lot of my teenage years dossing about in Hastings. Unfortunately the greatly missed cricket ground had long been demolished, but in its place is one of the better sports statues I've seen - some hapless batsman hitting wicket trying to hook the ball into the jeweller's upstairs window.



I played my first match this season a couple of weeks ago away at Brighton and Hove and even took a wicket from my one (very expensive) over, bowling slow seam-up. It's very low level and in friendlies everyone on the team is encouraged to bowl at least an over - hence my question about bowling non-spin while I improve my accuracy. I'm due to play this Saturday (weather permitting), what I try to bowl will depend on how I'm feeling after having a bowl in the nets tomorrow (after I steal a traffic cone ).

 

[Bobble_Fell_Off]

Welcome Bobble! You're in a very similar place to where I was about a year/18months back , and have already received some good advice - this place is a great find for an aspiring spinner. Your action is very much like mine when I started - I suspect it's changed a bit now, but I need to film it - probably not changed as much as I think. I've been putting it off because seeing yourself on film is a horrible business, but it's very educational & brilliant for feedback , so you've done already. I'm not really experienced enough to give advice, but that's not going to stop me:

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging? - Well, you're doing exactly what I am, with the difference that I'm 46 instead of in my 20s , so I must be a lot more deluded than you I've been back bowling for about 18 months (having tried very briefly 20-odd yrs ago)& have been bowling in (friendly) games since last year. It is a steep learning curve and needs a lot of work to get to the point of competence - I think you need a certain level of obsession to persevere with it , but suspect that probably already have that, or you wouldn't be here. If you love it, it's not work , and if you work at it enough, you will improve. Do you have a club, or regular access to nets?
2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage? Some great advice re alignment and wrist position from Leggy88, Doc & Dave there, and agree with all of it. Watching your video, alignment does jump out a bit - your weight is going down the offside, rather than down the pitch as you would like.
3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action?
4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural) This is the only bit where I'd slightly disagree with previous answers, but only very slightly - I don't see the harm in mixing it up a very little bit, as long as you don't lose focus on your wristspin, which you obviously have aptitude for. I bowl a bit of very medium pace as a warm-up/occasional variation in the nets, but I spend hardly any time on it and certainly wouldn't use it in a game. It might have been of marginal benefit in teaching me to speed my arm action a bit, but really it's just a for a laugh. If you're a complete beginner & want to get game ready, you'd probably be better off working on your batting and fielding if you can.

Thanks Fleetwood - it's been really lovely to receive so much encouragement and advice from everyone on here. I will keep you all updated!

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

Oh, wow it's a small world, I grew up near Breed and spent a lot of my teenage years dossing about in Hastings. Unfortunately the greatly missed cricket ground had long been demolished, but in its place is one of the better sports statues I've seen - some hapless batsman hitting wicket trying to hook the ball into the jeweller's upstairs window.

View attachment 2837View attachment 2838

I played my first match this season a couple of weeks ago away at Brighton and Hove and even took a wicket from my one (very expensive) over, bowling slow seam-up. It's very low level and in friendlies everyone on the team is encouraged to bowl at least an over - hence my question about bowling non-spin while I improve my accuracy. I'm due to play this Saturday (weather permitting), what I try to bowl will depend on how I'm feeling after having a bowl in the nets tomorrow (after I steal a traffic cone ).

You must know Udimore, Rye and Camber in that case? My parents lived in Hastings 'Warrior square' when I was a baby for a short while. Yeah I went looking for the cricket ground about 15 years ago thinking it would still be there, I was devastated to see it built over. I never visited it I seem to remember you could walk past the entrance and see the match going on and possibly you could see it from West Hill near the castle?

 

[doc8176]

Got a cricket match in 90 minutes, it’s 18 degrees at the moment. Beautiful.

 

[AC222]

I’m off to my second game of the season later today. Got 2-31 off 9 overs last week which I was happy with.

Welcome to Bobble. Never too old to start bowling leg spin. It will take some time like any skill in cricket or otherwise but given that people still play league cricket into their 70s that’s more than enough time. Also looks like you have made plenty of progress already. Well done for posting a video: I’m no coach but it looks good. Personally I aim to get my right leg over and through in a straight line, which is different to your pivot on the front foot. That being said everyone is different, so I don’t think that there are any rights and wrongs.

Maybe try some bowling at some cones / markers (maybe you are already, I couldn’t see on the video). I think it aids the muscle memory for accuracy if you are trying to focus on bowling at a specific spot.

It’s just time and practice really… and to that end personally I never bowl any medium pace so as to focus on the wrist spin. But again everyone is different and loads of elite level spinners were pace bowlers for years before they took up spin.

 

[Bobble_Fell_Off]

Bowled three overs yesterday in a friendly for the 3rds. The game was pretty much won, so I decided to be brave and try some leg spin... very first ball, I was rewarded when the opposition captain top edged it to mid-on. I don't think any of my deliveries really turned much as I was focusing more bowling straight, which I largely managed until my final over where it started to fall apart with some horrible wides, but I'll put it down to tiredness and loss of concentration and rhythm at the end of a long session in the field.

Overall, I'm quite happy with my progress over the last few weeks. The advice on here about focusing on making sure my weight is going forward has really helped. I asked a knowledgable young fast bowler in the nets about this, and he pointed out that part of my problem is that when I planted my left foot it was stepping across my body, forcing my right foot to swing round. I think I started doing this to help me be more side-on, but once I tried planting it wider I felt a lot more balanced.

One thing that may decrease accuracy in the short term (or it may even help, idk) but will help in the long term will also provide an immediate positive effect on the revolutions you are getting.

I noticed your wrist is not 'cocked' but rather in alignment with your forearm. When you are bounding up, up until you release, your wrist should be 'cocked'. Then when you release the ball, your wrist uncoils and rotates and combines with the third finger to spin the ball. Currently you are only using your fingers to spin the ball as I see it, if you use your wrist as well your accuracy may possibly decrease, but you will get so much more energy on the ball and that is the main thing about being a spinner. There is always time to improve accuracy later on.

I had a crack at this bowling in the nets and again on Saturday, the good news it wasn't a total mess accuracy wise, but I need to persevere in getting the wrist and fingers working together it's currently spinning a fair bit less.

I’m off to my second game of the season later today. Got 2-31 off 9 overs last week which I was happy with.

Welcome to Bobble. Never too old to start bowling leg spin. It will take some time like any skill in cricket or otherwise but given that people still play league cricket into their 70s that’s more than enough time. Also looks like you have made plenty of progress already. Well done for posting a video: I’m no coach but it looks good. Personally I aim to get my right leg over and through in a straight line, which is different to your pivot on the front foot. That being said everyone is different, so I don’t think that there are any rights and wrongs.

Maybe try some bowling at some cones / markers (maybe you are already, I couldn’t see on the video). I think it aids the muscle memory for accuracy if you are trying to focus on bowling at a specific spot.

It’s just time and practice really… and to that end personally I never bowl any medium pace so as to focus on the wrist spin. But again everyone is different and loads of elite level spinners were pace bowlers for years before they took up spin.

Thanks AC - I made the investment in some old plastic cones from ebay and have set myself a big target at about 4-5 meters from the stumps. I think getting my right foot over is where I need to be, as opposed to the "roundhouse kick the umpire in the groin" motion that I currently make. - I'll get there

You must know Udimore, Rye and Camber in that case? My parents lived in Hastings 'Warrior square' when I was a baby for a short while. Yeah I went looking for the cricket ground about 15 years ago thinking it would still be there, I was devastated to see it built over. I never visited it I seem to remember you could walk past the entrance and see the match going on and possibly you could see it from West Hill near the castle?

Yes I grew up around all of those spots, I'm especially familiar with Rye where most of my friends lived growing up - a very beautiful town although pretty boring place to be a teenager. I live closer to Brighton now, which offers a bit more stimulation to say the least.

 

[Darth Spin]

Hi everyone

I’ve been lurking on this thread for a while - I’m something of a beginner to wrist spin having picked cricket back up last summer. I gave up playing as a teenager because, frankly, I wasn’t very good but returned at the grand age of 28. Wrist spin has always been my favourite thing about cricket and despite my aforementioned lack of success even when just trying to bowl seam-up, I’d love to develop into a somewhat competent leggie.

Before I gave up playing I saw a YouTube video of Terry Jenner explaining how to spin a leg break, since then I've been able to spin a cricket ball well from hand-to-hand. Towards the end of last summer, I tried spinning a few deliveries in the nets, most flew out sideways but lo and behold! The two or three that actually landed turned sharply. Since then I’ve been keen to actually develop this and since last week I’ve been heading down to the nets after work to bowl at some cones on my own (good advice I read on here), mostly from a standing start as running up seems to create far too many issues.

About half of my deliveries end up flying off into the wrong direction, generally full and down leg or quite a lot of the time (especially when I’m tired or trying to run up) onto the underside of the net's roof.

I'll have a go at filming a bit of my action next time I'm at the nets.

Questions:

1. Am I being completely deluded for trying to learn leg spin and should instead give up (for now) and switch my focus on bowling something less cool but also less challenging?
2. If no, what are the key things I should be focusing on at this stage?
3. Are my current inaccuracy woes just overcome by practice, or should I be trying to analyse and "fix" aspects of my action?
4. Is it worth trying to develop some easier, seam up bowling for playing in matches, or does that risk complicating things? (I’ve never understood how finger spin works, spinning with the ring finger just feels so much more natural)

My advice would be:-

1. Practice over a shorter distance. If it gets frustrating over 22 yards, go from 16, 18, 20 or whatever. Then go back to 22 yards when you can land, say, 8 out of 10 where you want them.

2. Carry the ball around as much as you can and spin from hand to hand, to increase the muscle strength, evolve your technique and increase revs. At home when watching TV etc. Try and increase the revs.

 

[Darth Spin]

Had my first match of the season today, a 35 over friendly.

I bowled four overs near the end of their innings, 4 overs 0 maidens 14 runs 0 wickets. Happy with my economy. Not much happened really, they played me quite defensively apart from one short horrible one on the leg side which was put away for 4. They got 160-5.

With the bat, I had a lot of fun batting at 10. I was facing spin, one slow off spinner who didn't turn it much but was accurate. And a leggie who was decent but I felt I could read him okay. He dropped one short and I pulled it for 6. I was 10 not out, which is splendid by my batting standards. We were 95 all out from 25 overs.

 

[SomeblokecalledDave.]

I've just played two 40 over games Saturday and Sunday. Took a wicket in each, both slips catches off of my flippers. The game today was a tough one - a Friendly, so a whole range of levels in our team from me and two others who play in the 6th XI, through all the teams up to the 1st XI of which there were 2 players. Never played the opposition previously, but they were a good team far better than us. They batted first and set a score of 208 and we were all out for around 108, I got a 0 not out. I didn't feel that I bowled that well, my first over was ropey with a couple of wides and another couple over the 6 overs I bowled. Some of the fielding was poor - one of our players who's all mouth in the field, berated me for missing a ball I was attacking, that was backed-up and didn't cost him any runs. Then in one of my overs he let the ball past him simply by virtue of not being able to get down to it. The blokes 30 years younger than me! I just glared. But looking back at the score sheet tonight I didn't do too bad. Better figures than the captain Weatherall who's our Aussie international player and the other 1st team bowler (Lambert) so I'll take that. I also pulled off a spectacular dive stopping 4 at fine leg which always goes down well at our club, they're always amazed at how athletic I am at 63!