Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

phil2oo8 said:
i know im probaly sinning here but i disagree with a few of ian's methods...
...remember this is an opinion and i'm tired so parts don't make sense

No Phil, it makes total sense and having an opinion can never be a sin ;)

I specialise in prehabilitation but, unfortunately, spend most of my time with rehabilitation. In both instances, I use biomechanics but what I would do for one is not necessarily what I would do for the other. Not only are each of these instances different but so are each individual :D . However, even though I concentrate on either preventing or repairing injury [and I assure you, I am not at all interested in improving pace at this point], pace is improved as a by-product.

It is like a machine with a misaligned moving part; take a watchface. Imagine the minute hand is slightly out of alignment; it is slightly bent and the end is raised higher than it is designed to be. The second hand cannot get past; if the workings are solid enough, it may force its way past but it will have lost seconds and the same thing will happen the next time it comes across the minute hand. Now, I would take the glass off and straighten the minute hand, making sure it passes the hour hand unimpeded and the second hand can now pass unimpeded. It is now not likely to break under the constant stress but how has this effected the way it works and its pace?

Manuals are not to be read blindly and Ian's methods are there to help a player improve. I cannot believe he disregards safety. Players do not pick up his book with no knowledge of cricket. They have usually attended a Club or school team and been coached the fundamentals. They will have spent many hours on their technique but now want that little extra to help them over a plataux or improve beyond their own coaches ability. At this point, their technique should be such that following Ian's suggestions will not cause injury.

Another factor to remember is that what would cause injury in one person will have no effect to another!
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

phil2oo8 said:
i know im probaly sinning here but i disagree with a few of ian's methods... My coach has his book and loves some parts but he say's and i agree that some parts of his coaching is wrong, not in a technical way but in other ways, my view and OPINION is " ECB coaching aim's at minimising risk of injury to fast bowlers by working on getting a correct action that works before developing pace" whereas ian's view is to just generate pace in bowlers and i believe he disregards specific parts of getting correct actions and if a young bowler or a bowler with a not perfect action did what he say's they will increase strain and pressure on incorrect actions................................... remember this is an opinion and i'm tired so parts don't make sense

Phil, and others. I thought I'd actually join the forum as it encourages great debate, which should always happen in cricket.

First things first - injury prevention. Absolutely vital! As ECB National & Regional Skill Sets Coach for fast bowling I am 100% behind ensuring bowlers have safe actions. So should ANY coach, Level 4 and downwards.

Back injuries are usually caused by impact or counter rotation of the trunk at key moments (to keep it simple) so if you line up straight and go straight, with a smooth transfer of energy between back and front foot, you should be fine. This is exactly what I coach Phil.

Secondly, don't misquote me about pace first, action second. If you (or your coach) really understood how the action worked, you'd realise that if your action is more efficient, better lined up, and all parts moved sequentially - you'd bowl at your maximum efficiency and speed. This is what I try to coach. The RESULT of having that type of action is pace. So far from being pace first, it's all about being as efficient as possible in movement.

The things about line, length etc take care of themselves if you line up correctly and let the ball go at the right time. Swing comes from a good wrist position. Seam movement comes from holding the ball correctly and an upright release.

I have read people's comments with much interest. And my overview is that as soon as biomechanics is mentioned it's somehow a mysterious magical thing not to be trusted. I also don't think that people who are 'biomechanists' understand how to teach fast bowling. The word biomechanics is banded around a lot in cricket. That's why I used 'ABSAT' to differentiate from the rest (Advanced Biomechanics Speed & Accuracy Training). My methods WORK, as they are applied directly to fast bowlers. Pat Legge who came on one of my ABSAT Courses, probably understands what I do as well as anyone. So please re-read his comments.

For a view of what professionals think, please visit www.maverickscricket.com/stars.htm and get their opinion.

And finally for Swinger. I understand your views. I meet hundreds of people who have this view who were taught by their fathers and who were in turn, taught by their fathers. But at some stage, it's worth questioning things. I did. Just because it says something in the MCC Coaching manual, does that make it right? Equally, just because I say it, does that make it right? The ECB often change their protocols, ideas, methods, coaching information, education, etc etc. What they said 5 years ago on certain things has been discredited today. Cricket is a moving vehicle - we discover BETTER ways of doing things. All sports training has dramatically moved on in recent years. You cannot hold just one set of ideas and think they will hold true at all times.

I encourage you all to discover things for yourself. That's why I wrote the book on the subject. But read it yourself before you decide. And remember. The mind is like a parachute - it only works when it's open.

I discovered much for myself in the past 20 years through playing, meeting some amazing people and through trial & error work. My highest profile bowler, Dale Steyn, currently sits at Number Two in the world. So something is clearly working as he's also been relatively injury free too.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Good to see you on sC, Ian :) May I ask if it was the hip rotation and full follow through that you worked on with Dale Steyn, because it seems very evident when he is bowling at his quickest (140kph+) but when he drops down to the 130kph range at the end of a tough day, he does not do it as much.

Furthermore, my brother noted the example of Shane Watson to me; he has a good action, gets the fingers behind the seam with a high arm and bowls at good pace (when he is fit), but he is pretty poor on the international level of bowlers.

I know that you have a paid service for action help, but I have three quite general questions:
- How important is momentum in the run up. I move at quite a slow pace since I don't have the stamina nor the acceleration to run in fast off a short or long run. I will work on it with interval sprints, but how much pace will a sprint bring from a leisurely jog or would it be best to keep a controlled run up to keep the body moving in the right position, as RP Singh does.
- Is hang time important? I can cover fine (albeit slightly short) distances in the jump, but only with more of a skip like jump - It is merely a large step with a slight jerk after my back foot lands, shown best [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Ev1eah0XM]here[/ame]. PS: I know the follow through is poor here, it is likely because I don't have a ball.
- Bracing the front leg. Is it worth the effort to try it and put pressure on my already weak knees. (If it will add something like 5mph + bounce, then it is clearly worth it to me)
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Let me help you out there as Ian is hopefully fixing Simon Jones...

I know that you have a paid service for action help, but I have three quite general questions:

- How important is momentum in the run up. I move at quite a slow pace since I don't have the stamina nor the acceleration to run in fast off a short or long run. I will work on it with interval sprints, but how much pace will a sprint bring from a leisurely jog or would it be best to keep a controlled run up to keep the body moving in the right position, as RP Singh does. :Dspeed into the wicket causes momentum, the more momentum behind the ball, the more pace.

- Is hang time important? I can cover fine (albeit slightly short) distances in the jump, but only with more of a skip like jump - It is merely a large step with a slight jerk after my back foot lands, shown best here. PS: I know the follow through is poor here, it is likely because I don't have a ball. :)Again, it's momentum, if you leap in the air, your speed will reduce through lack of contact with the ground.

- Bracing the front leg. Is it worth the effort to try it and put pressure on my already weak knees. (If it will add something like 5mph + bounce, then it is clearly worth it to me) :)The front leg is the support, but if you can imagine creating a boomerang shape from front foot contact to bowling hand release, you will cause an catapult style release, creating more pace.

All these hints are contained in Ian's book and a picture paints a thousand words.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

leggeb4 said:
Let me help you out there as Ian is hopefully fixing Simon Jones...

I know that you have a paid service for action help, but I have three quite general questions:

- How important is momentum in the run up. I move at quite a slow pace since I don't have the stamina nor the acceleration to run in fast off a short or long run. I will work on it with interval sprints, but how much pace will a sprint bring from a leisurely jog or would it be best to keep a controlled run up to keep the body moving in the right position, as RP Singh does. :Dspeed into the wicket causes momentum, the more momentum behind the ball, the more pace.

- Is hang time important? I can cover fine (albeit slightly short) distances in the jump, but only with more of a skip like jump - It is merely a large step with a slight jerk after my back foot lands, shown best here. PS: I know the follow through is poor here, it is likely because I don't have a ball. :)Again, it's momentum, if you leap in the air, your speed will reduce through lack of contact with the ground.

- Bracing the front leg. Is it worth the effort to try it and put pressure on my already weak knees. (If it will add something like 5mph + bounce, then it is clearly worth it to me) :)The front leg is the support, but if you can imagine creating a boomerang shape from front foot contact to bowling hand release, you will cause an catapult style release, creating more pace.

All these hints are contained in Ian's book and a picture paints a thousand words.

I've read Ian's book. My questions are slightly more in depth than the material in his book.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Manee...with regard to hang time, this really only happens with bowler's who have to turn into a sideways position on back foot impact (Shoaib, Imran Khan, Waqar etc). More front on bowlers tend to run through the crease as they bowl and don't require much of a jump at the crease - hence hang time isn't important for them.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

I have a random question Mr Pont: regarding bowling speed:

in dennis lillees book- art of fast bowling he says the run up contributes 19% of the bowling speed in your book i think you said 10%- now whether its 19% or 10% i dont know- but id like to know if the following is true:

taking 10% as the example

if i bowl 80mph for example with a run up should i be able to bowl 72mph from a standing position?

or for 19% 64 mph

is the basic premise correct?
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Though I don't have anything other than anecdotal evidence to back it I would suggest that the figure is somewhere between the two. I know of a few people who can bowl almost the same pace regardless of run up.

Obviously, Ian will be able to give you a more in depth answer but I would certainly say that the basic premise is correct (although other factors will come into play).
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

swinger said:
I have a random question Mr Pont: regarding bowling speed:

in dennis lillees book- art of fast bowling he says the run up contributes 19% of the bowling speed in your book i think you said 10%- now whether its 19% or 10% i dont know- but id like to know if the following is true:

taking 10% as the example

if i bowl 80mph for example with a run up should i be able to bowl 72mph from a standing position?

or for 19% 64 mph

is the basic premise correct?

Hi Swinger....

I recall watching the late, great Malcolm Marshall warm up for Hampshire by standing in the crease at back foot impact position, then bowling from there. The 'keeper, Bobby Parks, was a full pitch length behind the wickets as was taking the ball at chest height.

All this shows is that some bowlers have the ability to generate speed with their action, and others need a run up. I am unsure if you can actually put a precise figure on it to be honest since so many factors like length of levers (legs and arms), speed throught the crease, force generated, point of fulcrum, efficiency of movement, straight lines etc etc etc ALL add up to create the velocity.

Someone far smarter than me suggested 10% - if Lillee said 19% someone equally smart told him that. The point is that run ups are important as much for speed as for balance, co-ordination and rhythm. So your premise could be correct but might also not be - dependent upon how you bowl and the style of action you have. Some bowlers tear in as if their heads are on fire yet bowl at modest speeds. Others, like Simon Jones, seem to amble up and yet deliver north of 90 mph.

::)
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

G'day mate, I have two pretty short questions.

1. There's this guy in my team, he also has the same coach as me, and he runs up on a big angle, well I mean he runs in diagonally to the crease, and I just really don't think it helps him, and he isn't a naturally fast bowler anyway, but I think that his lack of pace is a result of his run up? Would you recommend any bowler to bowl with a run up like that (not that I am going to), but I think it does help him shape the ball slightly.

2. Well I've forgotten the question I originally had planned, damn, but I might as well ask you another one.

People on my team don't really shine the ball as much as I would like them to, and while I get it to swing loads in the opening overs of the game, when I come on for my second and third spells and the ball hasn't got an inch of shine on it, well I get p*ssed off for one, and I also stuggle to take wickets, I bowl well, but what really gets me wickets is my ability to swing the ball heaps far even if it has very little shine on it, but when there's no shine I can't do anything. Any advice on wicket taking deliveries for when the ball isn't swinging?

Thanks mate.

Ai, I just remembered my question.

Our home ground (well god let's hope it's not next season) is really bad for bowling, the run ups are almost fully sand, and you get trapped in it as you run in. While I have done pretty well through it, I must admit it is very annoying. Our coach says just run full pelt through it which seams to work well for me, I've seen many bowlers struggle, one bowler going for 38 off 2 overs ore something. Do you have any advice?

Thanks once again.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Jonesy said:
G'day mate, I have two pretty short questions.

1. There's this guy in my team, he also has the same coach as me, and he runs up on a big angle, well I mean he runs in diagonally to the crease, and I just really don't think it helps him, and he isn't a naturally fast bowler anyway, but I think that his lack of pace is a result of his run up? Would you recommend any bowler to bowl with a run up like that (not that I am going to), but I think it does help him shape the ball slightly.

2. Well I've forgotten the question I originally had planned, damn, but I might as well ask you another one.

People on my team don't really shine the ball as much as I would like them to, and while I get it to swing loads in the opening overs of the game, when I come on for my second and third spells and the ball hasn't got an inch of shine on it, well I get p*ssed off for one, and I also stuggle to take wickets, I bowl well, but what really gets me wickets is my ability to swing the ball heaps far even if it has very little shine on it, but when there's no shine I can't do anything. Any advice on wicket taking deliveries for when the ball isn't swinging?

Thanks mate.

Ai, I just remembered my question.

Our home ground (well god let's hope it's not next season) is really bad for bowling, the run ups are almost fully sand, and you get trapped in it as you run in. While I have done pretty well through it, I must admit it is very annoying. Our coach says just run full pelt through it which seams to work well for me, I've seen many bowlers struggle, one bowler going for 38 off 2 overs ore something. Do you have any advice?

Thanks once again.

1. If you run in at a big angle it will cause all sorts of issues with line up of your feet, hips, shoulders and just about everything else at the crease as you deliver the ball. The most important part of bowling is at release of the ball. This should be as straight as possible to the target (to maximise speed and accuracy). The shape on the ball is caused by wrist position and not angle of feet or anything else (unless you are Malinga and slinging it very low). 99% of coaches make the mistake, and therefore the bowlers, of thinking that running at an angle helps to 'shape' the ball. All that happens is the top of the body will have to 'fall away' to stop bowling it down the leg side.

2. You only get one cricket ball (usually) in a club game so it's a schoolboy error not to look after it. ALL players in the team have the responsibility to shine a ball - so ask those who don't and who are batsmen which ball they would least like to face - a hard, swinging ball, or one that's knackered and doing nothing? They will understand then why it's important to shine a ball, and it only takes 30 seconds to get it somewhere decent enough to swing. In Oz you need to look after the Kookaburra ball which can lose it's shine quite fast too.

3. If you have an outfield that's draining and hard to run in on, think about shortening your run up for home matches? Why pound in and sap all your energy when a run is merely to get you to the crease to bowl? It's between the white lines of the crease that counts, not how far or fast you run in. I would practice a shorter, more effective run in and control the power through the crease. You may find this better...
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Yeh but the thing is, the bowler who got hit for 0/38 bowled off a shorter run than usual...


I think we have a few better shiners this year, so all good.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Jonesy said:
Yeh but the thing is, the bowler who got hit for 0/38 bowled off a shorter run than usual...


I think we have a few better shiners this year, so all good.

You have to practice a shorter run in nets and probably on the middle too to make it realistic, not just try it in the middle of a game.

Also, poor control is not usually the fault of a shortened run up. As mentioned, bowlers can do walking drills or standing drills and still bowl a line and length.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

May I suggest that without the forward momentum of a long run up, he may fall away in his action which causes the inaccuracy.
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

Yeh I think it was off putting because he had to go so slow in the sand, and had 2 steps to get his proper speed going....
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

manee said:
I would be interested to know how Ian came to his conclusions about fast bowling. Is it purely scientific theory; theory cross referenced with pictures and videos of past greats or as a direct result of an independent study.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this post
 
Re: Interview with Fast Bowling Guru Ian Pont

house said:
manee said:
I would be interested to know how Ian came to his conclusions about fast bowling. Is it purely scientific theory; theory cross referenced with pictures and videos of past greats or as a direct result of an independent study.

I'd be interested to know the answer to this post
] let's see if i can answer this for you. I met the world's leading innovative bio mechanics expert, dr ken west, in 1995. He started to question why we taught fast bowling movements the way we do when there's a better way of doing it. We worked side by side for 6 weeks where it confirmed everything i learned in america while having pro baseball trials in 1987. But it was HOW to adapt the movements specifically to fast bowling that gave us ABSAT coaching. The secret is about what changes to make and how to make them. So this is where the skill drills become important. I am still adding new drills every month based on what's working best. I try to get the best results as fast as possible. The ECB has yet to take all this on but that's fine. They are still basing their coaching on the old coaching manual. I wouldn't expect any GOVERNING BODY to admit there might be something better as it would undermine the past few decades and their coach education. Which is why i run my own coach education. Governing bodies tend to be a few years behind so it's not a suprise. I would always urge people to keep an open mind and I'm always happy to be proven wrong. But ABSAT seems to be robust and an exciting new coaching system.
 
Back
Top