Iverson-Gleeson technique & off spin off middle finger technique

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Daryn Hanright

Daryn Hanright

New Member
Hi

I'm the guy behind PalmHeads Iverson-Gleeson Bent Middle Finger Grip (& other thoughts...) page.

I've just added some interesting insite from Bill O'Reilly on Gleesons method.

Also I added some piccies of Bob Appleyards bowling grip. Appleyard was interesting as he spun his off-break off the middle finger.

If you guys haven't read the following books yet, you should. Best cricket literature I have read
1. The Story of Jack Iverson - Mystery Spinner by Gideon Haigh
2. No Coward Soul - The remarkable story of Bob Appleyard by Stephen Chalke and Derek Hodgson

Good to be a member. Have meant to sign up for ages, just had not gotten around to it!

cheers
Daryn
 
Great to see you. I have read the tragic story behind iverson, a brilliant read. Come join us on the wrist spin thread, your site is very informative and well researched. I am sure dave will also pop in and say hello, unless he has totally been taken up by art and has given up on cricket
 
Daryn Hanright said:
Hi

I'm the guy behind PalmHeads Iverson-Gleeson Bent Middle Finger Grip (& other thoughts...) page.

I've just added some interesting insite from Bill O'Reilly on Gleesons method.

Also I added some piccies of Bob Appleyards bowling grip. Appleyard was interesting as he spun his off-break off the middle finger.

If you guys haven't read the following books yet, you should. Best cricket literature I have read
1. The Story of Jack Iverson - Mystery Spinner by Gideon Haigh
2. No Coward Soul - The remarkable story of Bob Appleyard by Stephen Chalke and Derek Hodgson

Good to be a member. Have meant to sign up for ages, just had not gotten around to it!

cheers
Daryn
Click to expand...

Good to hear from you Daryn, we have had some email exchange a while back, i was the grimmett nut that mentioned grimmetts own "iverson" ball he developed around the first world war, 20 years before jack iverson. He dropped it because his hand was too small and he couldn't get overspin.

I really like your research and have got a few questions i wanted to ask you so great to have you here mate.
 
No I'm still here Saddo in between coats of drying acrylic paint and writing my 'Journal'!

Yeah good to see you on here Daryn, we've often written about the work you do and there's probably links to your youtube page and your palmheads website as well amongst the threads here. Like Macca I've emailed you in the past with questions so if you look in time to time no doubt we'll be bending your ear about all things spin. I'll have a look at the link you've posted and make a note of those books.
 
Hey guys - yes I just looked in my email folder, looks like I completely missed/forgot to reply to one of your emails Dave.

Even though am in late 30's now, I still enjoy going to a cricket net & trying out the Iverson-Gleeson stuff in particular. Even though I'm no great shakes as a bowler, I can still see how they might be effective. The key thing for me with this technique is, I'm sure Gleeson would not have even played first class cricket as a straight conventional offie. But because he had the conventional offie, a wee leg-cutter, & the Iverson toppie/leggie/offie (at slow-medium pace) he became a "mystery" bowler & reached test cricket. Quite remarkable for a dude who was originally a wicketkeeper from Tamworth!

Am not 100% convinced by the middle finger offie. I can see how it could be spun real hard, but I cannot quite workout fully what position the fingers should be in to bowl it effectively. Appleyard & Yardley in particular got real purchase from using it, so it obviously can be done. Both bowled at near medium pace, so reckon its more like an off-cut motion, but because its using the very strong middle finger, its imparting big revolutions on the ball.
 
Daryl, I wouldn't worry about the age thing, I'm 50 and still just about going and a complete beginner at this stuff. I gave the Iverson Gleeson thing a go a couple seasons ago as I hurt my hand in some way - a deep gash or something - can't quite remember, but I recall because of it I could't bowl in my usual leg-spinners 3rd finger flick (Roll in my case) and remembered or saw one of your articles and thought I'd give it a go and was really surprised. Not bowling in that way at all - I picked it up quickly and was able as you've said to bowl it a lot faster than my usual stuff and it turned okay off the wicket, so I can only assume that I was getting it to spin? So my experience with it was pretty good.
 
You've done a lot more work on your website, it'll be interesting to see if the Offies pick up on the fact that you're potentially on here and start to make a contribution to the conversations. I've looked around the web as we all have on here, looking at different forums and it does look as though this is the only forum/thread that doesn't descend into nonesense with people slating each other and doing the opposite e.g. helping and suggesting ideas, so it'll be good to have you in on the act with a new viewpoint and perspective.
 
Love Bill O'Reilly's take on Gleeson (& spin in general). He was never a great believer in flight etc. He preferred pace off the wicket. His description of Gleeson, who was not a big turner of the ball (I think its hard to get big spin with the Iverson-Gleeson method), is great reading from a former great.

"Most people are intrigued with the fact that he does not turn the ball much. One never
sees the ball change direction excitingly, as it does sometimes when a slow legbreaker
is operating.

Quite so. But he has something much better than that. He can disguise the direction the
ball will take off the pitch.

If a batsman is uncertain where the ball is going it is not neccesary to turn it a lot.
Just the slightest bit makes the turn look important if the batsman has played down
the wrong line.

Thus the centre of the bat becomes the edge."

Basically saying that as long as you beat the bat, & you can disguise which was the ball is going to turn, your gonna get wickets.
 
Was just at the nets again experimenting with the Iverson-Gleeson method. Found a nice way to easily get the angle of the wrist into the right position for the leggie/toppie/offie.

The basic premise is, if the thumb is pointing to the leg-side its a leg-break. Thumb pointing towards the batsmen a toppie, & thumb pointing more to the off-side its an offie.

A way of getting into those positions easily is at the point of release after the middle finger flick, as your arm goes over, imagine these scenerios...

1. The back of the hand pointing behind you = a side spinning leg-break
2. The back of the hand pointing towards mid-off = over spinning leg-break
3. The back of the hand pointing towards cover/cover point (ie hand parallel to the wicket thumb pointing straight down) = top spinner
4. The back of the hand pointing towards third man = off spinner

The other delivery definitely for me is the back-spinning leg-break, which has the back of the hand pointing to mid-on at release (thumb pointing at mid-off). This ball is terrific as it has a hint of leg-break, but keeps low & appears to skid a little.
 
You're threatening to turn me into a part time finger spinner with all this interesting stuff - I might revisit this technique and try this out in the spring.
 
someblokecalleddave said:
You're threatening to turn me into a part time finger spinner with all this interesting stuff - I might revisit this technique and try this out in the spring.
Click to expand...

Yeah me too. I might start mucking around with the old iverson again and see if i can get one to go the distance. Good to show kids just from a history of spin perspective and also what is possible. You never know, someone might even pick it up.
 
Yeah go for it I reckon. It does look like you need to be bowling quicker than normal, & have strong fingers. I recently purchased a handmaster plus hand/finger exercise kit to strengthen my fingers. Don't expect huge turn on turf wickets. Iverson had abnormally large hands & strong fingers, & got huge turn with his offie, but could barely turn the leggie. Whereas Gleeson turned both ways, but not huge turn.

Just went down to the local net again, this time with a hard rubber cricket ball with a seam. The net is a synthetic. So the spin/bounce was exagerated, which actually helps with technique because its easier to know if what your doing is actually producing different types of spin. Sure enough, simply by following the techniques above, I could bowl leggies, toppies & offies on demand.
 
In order for your avatar to have been shot from behind, surely he'd have to have a shoulder/arm flexibllity range like Murali? Or is it the old shoulder dip in the extreme - a bit like Grimmetts wrong - wrong un?
 
Yeah it would be over too much for the Iverson offie (if shot from behind). The thumb just needs to be pointing to fine leg. Thats pointing more to square leg. Its definitely the Iverson leg-spinner.
 
Another thing I would add with this grip. I personally don't think its something you'd try & teach a youngster to bowl fully. It might do some damage to ligaments etc. Gleeson himself saw the Iverson grip as a youngster & copied it using tennis balls etc (which is fine). But Gleeson didn't start bowling it seriously until well into his twenties (looks like during a 'emus' tour of north america in 1961, by which time he was 23. 'emus' was a team of cricketers from aussie country areas that went on world tours playing in exotic places). And of course Iverson himself didn't start bowling it in games until he was in his mid 30's.

The other curious thing is, Gleeson recommended that you cannot bowl the Iversons at any club/state/country practice, as the people you would be bowling to, you'd eventually be bowling to in games!? Not sure how that would go down these days with coaches etc!!! He reckoned you work on the orthodox stuff at official practices, then bowl the Iversons in your own time by yourself.

If your an established offie with mature, stronger fingers, it definitely has to be an option.
 
Daryn Hanright said:
Another thing I would add with this grip. I personally don't think its something you'd try & teach a youngster to bowl fully. It might do some damage to ligaments etc. Gleeson himself saw the Iverson grip as a youngster & copied it using tennis balls etc (which is fine). But Gleeson didn't start bowling it seriously until well into his twenties (looks like during a 'emus' tour of north america in 1961, by which time he was 23. 'emus' was a team of cricketers from aussie country areas that went on world tours playing in exotic places). And of course Iverson himself didn't start bowling it in games until he was in his mid 30's.

The other curious thing is, Gleeson recommended that you cannot bowl the Iversons at any club/state/country practice, as the people you would be bowling to, you'd eventually be bowling to in games!? Not sure how that would go down these days with coaches etc!!! He reckoned you work on the orthodox stuff at official practices, then bowl the Iversons in your own time by yourself.

If your an established offie with mature, stronger fingers, it definitely has to be an option.
Click to expand...

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that Benaud didn't allow Gleeson to bowl to Victorians in the nets and made them field at mid on or off when he bowled playing for Australia so they didnt know what was happening for shield matches. May even have been your site.
 
Daryn Hanright said:
Close chippyben, it was Lindsay Hassett (Vic) not allowing Iverson (Vic) to bowl to Morris, Miller & co (NSW)
Click to expand...

Ah, so apart from all the names and the states switched around I was spot on
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