Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

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Sparksy88

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Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

Hi Guys

Was very interesting listening to Warney commentate on a few of the recent Pakistan test matches over here in UK, especially when Kaneria was bowling.
One piece that interested me was about the pace he would bowl during a test match. He mentioned that on the first or second day when the tracks are not turning as much he would bowl slower in order to get the ball to turn. As the test went on the the wicket would increasingly turn this allowed him to bowl it quicker as the ball would grip more.
Also reading somthing from Terry J, mentioning that the right pace to bowl is the pace which you gain maximum spin. He said Warne found that about 50mph was his ideal pace for spin, and anything over that he would loose spin gradually.
Im trying to find someone who has a speed gun as i would like to know how fast i bowl, even though i got through stages experimenting of bowling it slower and quicker. From what i can see Steve Smith and Kaneria tend to average about 54, where as Warne and Mcgill averaged arounf 50mph.
I had a game on a county ground at the weekend and the deck was so flat and i could hardly get the ball to turn which is pretty frustrating if you are giving it a rip. Looking back i should have maybe tried to bowl a few slow to try get some grip
 
Re: Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

you have to take the speed readings on TV with a pinch of salt. i dont subscribe to a lot of what i see lately. Warne was undoubtedly a 50mph bowler, so i think 50mph is the target speed. im not convinced that Smith and Kaneria bowl as quickly as the speed readings suggest.

its definitely true that the slower you bowl the more the ball will grip. you can also achieve similar outcomes with seam angles by using the alterations in flight, and the angle that the seam grips the pitch.

where abouts in the country are you? ive got a speed gun of sorts, its more like a radar box with a big LCD readout on it. its not 100% accurate for leg spin, it under-reads by 3-7mph because of the angles involved. you cant position it directly in front of the ball because it would hit it lol, so it has to be off to the side. but it gives a decent indication.

as for county tracks - ive bowled on one, earlier this year, and if i could bowl on one every week id be delighted. youve got to work harder because the ball wont just dig in. so that means the seam has to be presented perfectly, and youve got to rip the ball very very hard. but when you land it on the seam youll get more consistent turn, and more importantly, you get bounce!! bounce is a huge factor, and most club tracks are too soft to exploit it fully. in nets i cause batsmen massive issues with bounce. in matches it rarely happens unless we get a really nice hard wicket somewhere. watch the pros on TV as well, spin bowlers with variable bounce are very hard to play. i was getting very good (but sometimes sporadic) turn on that wicket. Scott Borthwick played on the adjacent pitch 2 weeks later for Durham against Hampshire and didnt turn the ball any more than i did :D

so give me a county wicket every time against club batsmen!! obviously if there were county batsmen id get killed, but thats because im 15mph down on pace.
 
Re: Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

My dream situation would be a pitch that offered bounce and as Jim has mentioned the likelyhood of a club ground offering consistent bounce is minimal. But I think he's also missing another factor. You can buy Kipster and Davies balls for around 3 quid, and then you can buy Kookaburras and Dukes balls for 60 quid + which indicates the balls at each end of the scale have different properties. I saw Boycott on the tele drop a ball from shoulder height at Lords or somewhere and it bounced back up beyond his waist. Get any of the balls you use and try that on rock hard concrete and see what happens. The more you pay for your balls, the more they're going to bounce it seems? At nets some of the balls we get there are far superior to others and one of the key factors is their bounce properties. Clubs with limited resources are never going to pay a lot of money for match balls, so they're never going to be like the upper end quality balls?
 
Re: Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

Nice going Jim ;). You are certainly right about the bounce on first class wickets, you certainly get rewarded for any overspin, i found that my wrongun (which is mostly overspin with only slight turn atm due to a stiff shoulder) was getting good bounce.
Iv also heard Warne mention that it took him a while to learn that on some pitches (flat/skiddy i think) the leg break with abit more overspin turns more that a big leag break (pure sidespin). You right about the seam position aswell, some times you need a pure seam position to get it to 'bite'.
Have u seen Adil Rachid bowl on tv? In every replay iv seen he bowls with a scrambed seam (Like Warns slider?) and even though he is a 50mp bowler he rarely get the ball to really bite. He can turn the ball though. But again i cant comment because i dont know what his bowling plan is. Beer at sussex seems to bowl top spinners when iv seen him on time. But i like Smith beacuse he get some great revs on the ball and good seam position though he hasnt been a massive turner yet but i think he will develope (with Warns help, he works with him regularly) into a good bowler, though he is allrounder status which probably has got him into the side at such a young age.
 
Re: Leg spin- Pace and pitch type

Dave your right about balls. Playing club cricket on a saturday the ball we use has a nice seam and the ball stays firm and offerers decent bouce. Playing for my village club in the sunday village league the balls seem cheaper with the seam less pronounced with the ball going softer earlier. I also has this glossy/rubbery feel to the leather which cant help for turn.
 
Bounce:confused:... So anything with top spin bounces up higher than on soft club wickets? But what about backspin? Does backspin stay extra low and skid on? I would hate to bowl on a pitch where everything bounces over the stumps! True, it makes it difficult for the batsman. But you lose 2 ways of getting them out, bowled and LBW. So please tell me that backspin almost rolls after bouncing on a county track?:eek:
 
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