Should you stay or should you go!

[Norm the whale]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

Putting the shoe on the other foot, would you appeal as a keeper or bowler if you knew that the ball hadn't touched the bat or it was missing the stumps?

I don't think anyone is talking blatant cheating, just trying to maximise 'luck'. I'm a firm believer that it evens out over time, which is how sport should be.

 

[Palley]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I`m not accusing anyone of cheating, honestly, the umpire has the last word. In a recent test involving South Africa ( I can`t remember the batsman) Square Leg Umpire called for Third Umpire intervention on a run out, the Batsman started walking and was told to wait by the Umpire. He was given OUT but that was the Umpire having the last word.
I`m a huge critic of gamesmanship and believe all sport should be played in the spirit rather than to the letter of the law. If my mortgage depended on my performances then that would be a different matter but it doesn`t.

 

[mas cambios]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

It's a tough one and Palley makes a great point about mortgages etc. After all, most of us play for recreation rather than a living.

 

[Stumped]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

yea i guess so, if your mortgage depended on it then your generally at a level where technology plays a big part via TV coverage and you only look silly!

as a wicket keeper i rely on the bowler to lead the shout for LBW, myself for catches and stumpings! i do get frustrated when i know i have had a clean stumping and the umpire was blatantly not watching!

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I let the umpire make the decision most times. But if its obvious then I walk most of the times unless Im batting really well.

 

[Jonesy]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

so would this count even if it was a thick edge to slip?

Surely the umpire would know if the ball changed coarse that much to go to slip?

 

[AB]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

Surely the umpire would know if the ball changed coarse that much to go to slip?

You would think so but I once hit a six and the umpire didn't notice.

 

[Rohitpatel]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I think if you know you`re out, you`re out simple as that. Instead of thinking that not walking evens things up for the bad decisions, maybe the bad decisions evens things up for not walking?????

But look at Gilchrist. He always walks but he still got bad decisions. I can remember one from the CB series. If you are honest maybe the umpire will trust you but with lbw mistakes can happen.

You would think so but I once hit a six and the umpire didn't notice.

Was he blind?

 

[AB]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

Was he blind?

He claimed he had 'dirt' in his eye. I hooked a ball and it hit the fence and bounced back in the playing area. I didn't know that it was a six because I had no idea where the ball was, to be honest.

 

[Jelly Beanz]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

In the league we were in last year no one gave anyone on their own team out pretty much at all. All season we had 3 lbws and no caught behinds. It's shocking really. The worst was a guy who was run out by half a pitch but intimidated the 14yo umpire from his own club into giving him not out.

The team I played in tended to give back what we got (but obviously not as blatantly as that!). I didn't support it at first but when you've had each opener out 3 times before they're given you get pretty angry.

Personally, I walk. I couldn't feel I cheated for runs. lbws I leave to the umpire though - they've got a better view.

As a bowler I only appeal for what I think is out and sometimes if it's going down leg, for example, I'll ask the umpire "just going down?" or something to try and get him to trust your judgement more and get a kind of rapport with them. Another thing I don't hold with is if you hit a batsman and he's obviously in pain and you walk away. At the end of the day it's a game for fun and you should at least go up and see how he is, imo.

 

[Bashypack]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

Completely agree with that on all counts - I like to finish a game knowing I've played it hard but fair no matter what the opposition does!

You can't walk for an LBW but sometimes you have a pretty good idea if it is close or not .... and as a bowler you ask the question and as you rightly say build up a rapport with the umpire .....(even if he is a 14yo partisan!!)

Oh well soon have all the frustrations and jubilations of a new league season .. can't wait!!

 

[Stumped]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

kinda hard when the umpires change every 5 overs lol

but i see what your saying, i always do the opposite when batting!

 

[Mike111]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I havent seen anyone else I've played with or against do it. I have been in such a situation very rarely and I didnt know what to do so I just stayed.

 

[Bashypack]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I don't even think about it - if I have hit it straight down long on's throat (which is normal mode of dismissal! :laugh or if it is a little dink to the 'keeper - I just tuck my bat under my arm and off i trot! - Maybe its a different mind set for batsmen and bowlers??

 

[Stumped]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

i think your right! i dont agree with cheating, its just the way it goes! Thats Cricket!

 

[Nightvision]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

The club I play for is pretty much just a sunday team. We know we're not pros, and while we play to win, we also acknowledge that this is just for fun. I've not been in the situation where I've had to make the decision, but if I knew I had nicked it, and there was no history of bad decisions in THIS match, then yes, I'd walk.

I think those who say "you'll get bad decisions go against you so make the most of the ones that go for you" are a little short sighted.
If you get wrongly given out against cricket club A, then get a faint edge against club B and don't walk, all you've done is engender bad feeling from club B. It's not their fault the guy who umpired for club A is blind/biased/a muppet, so why take it out on them?
We had a guy last season who edged one to the wicketkeeper so blatantly that we had already started celebrating, never mind appealing, and he stayed his ground and was duly given not out by the umpire (who just so happened to be the other side's captain given out LBW earlier in the innings). When asked later what the hell he was playing at, he said "well I got a ropey decision earlier in the season" like it was some kind of defence for what essentially is blatant cheating.

Fortunately, he was clean bowled four balls after that shocker and we won by eight wickets.


Oh, by the way, this brings up a brilliant bit of banter, now I can't remember if this was something that happened at international level, or whether it was a story relayed to me that once happened at our club, but one bowler was starting to get a bit frustrated with an umpire who was steadfastly refusing to give a batsman out. Three times in a row the batsman was hit plumb in front, and three times the finger stayed down. Next, an edge to wicketkeeper, and still no wicket. The next ball was full and straight, the batsman missed it, and it ripped middle stump right out of the ground.
Walking back to his mark, the bowler allegedly said to the umpire in question:

"That one was a bit close... I nearly had him there."

 

[Jonesy]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

That was in Fred Trueman and Frank Hardy's book.

I play to win, I don't give a sh*t about the opposition. Normally I am a generaly nice guy I like to think but once I step over the boundary I play to win and yeh. Thing is, NV, I've had so many bad decisions against me in my time and hardly any in favour for me. Batsman never walk when I'm bowling, and I'm not just gonna give away my wicket when the umpire thinks I'm not out. I think the umpire has a job and I will let him do his job. You don't see people admitting they gave away a free and standing there demanding the team take a free kick in football, or rugby, do you? You don't see people walking up to McDonalds and cooking themselves a meal there, do you?

 

[Stumped]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

seems we have split decisions amongst players! maybe we should poll it!

 

[edladd]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

I agree with nightvision on this. If you know you're out you should definitely walk. The same applies for things like stopping a ball on the boundary - if you know you touched the rope you should admit it.
Cricket has a reputation as being a game where people are expected to be fair and honest (We all know what is meant by "It's just not cricket"). I'd hate to see it going the way of sports like soccer where people see it as their duty to lie if it gives the team any advantage - by diving, not admitting to a hand-ball etc. All it's going to do is create bad spirit between teams and tarnish any victory you do get.

 

[Nightvision]

Re: Should you stay or should you go!

That was in Fred Trueman and Frank Hardy's book.

Yeah, that's the one.

I play to win, I don't give a sh*t about the opposition. Normally I am a generaly nice guy I like to think but once I step over the boundary I play to win and yeh. Thing is, NV, I've had so many bad decisions against me in my time and hardly any in favour for me. Batsman never walk when I'm bowling, and I'm not just gonna give away my wicket when the umpire thinks I'm not out.

You see, this is the problem - it's a vicious circle. Someone doesn't walk when you have them out. You remember this, and the next time you're out but not given, you decide to stay. This isn't the bowler's fault, but now he's going to do the same as you - next time he has the chance to walk, he won't, because he remembers the time you didn't walk. This potentially goes on and on, and soon those that walk are in the minority.
As for the 'playing to win' thing, maybe that's a cultural difference. My understanding of the Aussie approach to sports is that winning is pretty much everything. That's not necessarily a bad thing, and almost certainly explains the reason Aussies are far more successful in the sporting world than the English. Perhaps this mentality needs to be instilled into the English a bit more.
However, at club level, I still argue that not walking when you know you're out is cheating. If you're genuinely not sure, that's fair enough, but I'm sure there are plenty who have stood their ground knowing full well they edged it or similar. At international level, this isn't such a problem, as umpires are professionals who are trained for years to do the job. At club level, the umpire is often just a member of the batting side who is already out, and does his best. Sometimes he is going to miss an edge, and I don't think that the 'make the umpire work' excuse is valid, because we all know that umpires DO get it wrong.

You're essentially justifying your cheating because someone once cheated against you. Going by that logic, I could wander up to someone and steal their iPod because someone once stole mine - it's the same logic, but I don't think it would hold up in court.

You don't see people admitting they gave away a free and standing there demanding the team take a free kick in football, or rugby, do you? You don't see people walking up to McDonalds and cooking themselves a meal there, do you?

No, and that's why Football in particular is in the state it is in. I don't know about you, but I don't want cricket to go that way, with players standing and screaming at the ref/umpire, who is just calling it to the best of his ability. As for your point regarding McDonalds, I don't get that at all... the entire reason you pay for McDonalds is because they supply the food and cook it for you. In the league we're in, the umpires are supplied by the teams and therefore not paid, hence that point is moot.

Anyway, not looking to pick a fight, more have a discussion.