Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
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hattrick
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Having a look around the world I sense it is a matter of time before a second division is formed for some associates (like Ireland for Test Cricket etc). The Irish have definitely improved the most from the Associatyes and have performed admirably in ICC events.
Having a look around the world I sense it is a matter of time before a second division is formed for some associates (like Ireland for Test Cricket etc). The Irish have definitely improved the most from the Associatyes and have performed admirably in ICC events.
Caesar
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
This essentially already exists in the form of the ICC Intercontinental Cup, which is the annual first-class competition for Associate nations. In the current edition (2009/10), the top 6 Associate nations (Scotland, Kenya, Ireland, the Netherlands, Canada, Afghanistan) plus Zimbabwe A play a single round-robin over the course of the year. Outside of this competition, Scotland and Ireland are the only two Associates who are able to play each other and have the fixture recognised as first-class.
Starting this year there's a second division (Intercontinental Shield) for the smaller Associates as well (Bermuda, Uganda, Namibia, UAE).
This essentially already exists in the form of the ICC Intercontinental Cup, which is the annual first-class competition for Associate nations. In the current edition (2009/10), the top 6 Associate nations (Scotland, Kenya, Ireland, the Netherlands, Canada, Afghanistan) plus Zimbabwe A play a single round-robin over the course of the year. Outside of this competition, Scotland and Ireland are the only two Associates who are able to play each other and have the fixture recognised as first-class.
Starting this year there's a second division (Intercontinental Shield) for the smaller Associates as well (Bermuda, Uganda, Namibia, UAE).
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Needs to be made official, with a solid structure. Visable promotion and relegation would also help. The game needs to grow - to do this the ICC needs to give every team the chance of reaching the top table.
Needs to be made official, with a solid structure. Visable promotion and relegation would also help. The game needs to grow - to do this the ICC needs to give every team the chance of reaching the top table.
hattrick
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
I agree with that and also a funding structure that will reward performance, ie. Bangladesh got a fair amount for the ICC but are not really showing any real progress.
I am still of the opinion that the top echelon needs to play together and the rest fighting their way into that league.
I agree with that and also a funding structure that will reward performance, ie. Bangladesh got a fair amount for the ICC but are not really showing any real progress.
I am still of the opinion that the top echelon needs to play together and the rest fighting their way into that league.
Caesar
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Is promotion/relegation for Test cricket practical at this point in time though? We've seen a lot of upsets by Associates against full members in limited overs tournaments, but first class cricket is a different game.
This is the first year that Zimbabwe A is competing in the tournament, but at the moment they're looking like they're at least as good as the best teams in the competition. It remains to see how this season plays out, but I wouldn't be surprised if they finish the Intercontinental Cup undefeated and possibly win the trophy.
Given that the Zimbabwe first team is currently the worst Test-playing nation by a long way, the gulf between the Test countries and the Associates still looks pretty enormous. I'm in favour of expanding Test cricket but it just doesn't look practical in the near future.
Is promotion/relegation for Test cricket practical at this point in time though? We've seen a lot of upsets by Associates against full members in limited overs tournaments, but first class cricket is a different game.
This is the first year that Zimbabwe A is competing in the tournament, but at the moment they're looking like they're at least as good as the best teams in the competition. It remains to see how this season plays out, but I wouldn't be surprised if they finish the Intercontinental Cup undefeated and possibly win the trophy.
Given that the Zimbabwe first team is currently the worst Test-playing nation by a long way, the gulf between the Test countries and the Associates still looks pretty enormous. I'm in favour of expanding Test cricket but it just doesn't look practical in the near future.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
I'll concede that promotion/relegation isn't practical at the moment but it should be the overall aim. Test cricket needs a shot in the arm otherwise it is going to fall by the wayside.
There is no country in the world incapable of producing test level cricketers - the challenge is finding them and then nurturing them to that standard. However, kids are not going to choose cricket if they know that despite their talent they are unlikely to play at the elite level and as such receive the rewards that go with it. Sure, they can attempt to qualify for a test nation but that is a long and arduous journey, one which comes with criticism from many and as a consequence desirable only to a few.
There is also the argument that unless you play with the best, you won't become the best. Does it really do Zimbabwe, Kenya or even Ireland that much good to be playing each other all the time? The games are good and they will develop to some degree but how much? These games are not going to be played at the same intensity as a test or even feature the same level of quality. This is part of the reason they appear woefully out of depth when playing the elite nations (save for the odd upset).
Take Steve Tikolo as an example. I think it's safe to say that during his prime he was considered to be one of, if not the best batsman not to be playing test/international cricket. Personally, I reckon that given the right development and exposure to top level cricket he could have played test cricket for most countries. However, he was born in a country that had no first class structure, poor development programs and one that played very few international games and as such he never got that exposure.
The ICC needs to structure the game accordingly with the top table being open to new members.
I'll concede that promotion/relegation isn't practical at the moment but it should be the overall aim. Test cricket needs a shot in the arm otherwise it is going to fall by the wayside.
There is no country in the world incapable of producing test level cricketers - the challenge is finding them and then nurturing them to that standard. However, kids are not going to choose cricket if they know that despite their talent they are unlikely to play at the elite level and as such receive the rewards that go with it. Sure, they can attempt to qualify for a test nation but that is a long and arduous journey, one which comes with criticism from many and as a consequence desirable only to a few.
There is also the argument that unless you play with the best, you won't become the best. Does it really do Zimbabwe, Kenya or even Ireland that much good to be playing each other all the time? The games are good and they will develop to some degree but how much? These games are not going to be played at the same intensity as a test or even feature the same level of quality. This is part of the reason they appear woefully out of depth when playing the elite nations (save for the odd upset).
Take Steve Tikolo as an example. I think it's safe to say that during his prime he was considered to be one of, if not the best batsman not to be playing test/international cricket. Personally, I reckon that given the right development and exposure to top level cricket he could have played test cricket for most countries. However, he was born in a country that had no first class structure, poor development programs and one that played very few international games and as such he never got that exposure.
The ICC needs to structure the game accordingly with the top table being open to new members.
hattrick
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Mas I disagree with you - the smaller nations will need time before the can play the bigger nations. I agree with that they cannot survive by playing the same level of opposition but what progress have nations like Bangladesh,Zimbabwe while get hammered by the other nations.
The point I am trying to make is that phasing in will need to be structures as playing them against Australia, South Africa etc will not really help the development process.
Steve Tikolo is an interesting case with only one in a generation type of player. I hate to say it but he played 2/3 seasons as Borders overseas professional and you will agree with me but there are a limited number of those playing for Associate nations..
Mas I disagree with you - the smaller nations will need time before the can play the bigger nations. I agree with that they cannot survive by playing the same level of opposition but what progress have nations like Bangladesh,Zimbabwe while get hammered by the other nations.
The point I am trying to make is that phasing in will need to be structures as playing them against Australia, South Africa etc will not really help the development process.
Steve Tikolo is an interesting case with only one in a generation type of player. I hate to say it but he played 2/3 seasons as Borders overseas professional and you will agree with me but there are a limited number of those playing for Associate nations..
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
I agree that there are a limited number out there but that is the point. You just won't attract the quality if they can't reach the pinnacle of the game.
I'm not saying throw them into the test scene right now but something has to be done to integrate them. When England have a home series why not have Ireland or Scotland play the visitors over 3/4 days as part of their warm up? It would benefit all concerned, far more than playing a county 2nd XI (give or take a few 1st team regulars).
It is slightly more problematic for other nations but some ingenuity could be shown.
I agree that there are a limited number out there but that is the point. You just won't attract the quality if they can't reach the pinnacle of the game.
I'm not saying throw them into the test scene right now but something has to be done to integrate them. When England have a home series why not have Ireland or Scotland play the visitors over 3/4 days as part of their warm up? It would benefit all concerned, far more than playing a county 2nd XI (give or take a few 1st team regulars).
It is slightly more problematic for other nations but some ingenuity could be shown.
Caesar
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
It would also be nice to see some more attention being given to the Associates by 'A' teams. Rather than have A vs A development matches, include Associates in their schedules. And I'm not talking Zimbabwe A - I mean teams like Australia, South Africa, India, England; where their A teams are as strong as the weaker Test nations.
Definitely agree with this proposal. The ICC has provisions in place that allow Associate nations to play against Test or FC teams and have the fixture classified as FC. I'd like to see it happen more.mas cambios;377608 said:
It would also be nice to see some more attention being given to the Associates by 'A' teams. Rather than have A vs A development matches, include Associates in their schedules. And I'm not talking Zimbabwe A - I mean teams like Australia, South Africa, India, England; where their A teams are as strong as the weaker Test nations.
hattrick
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
@Caesar The truth is that the A Tours would be good for the development of the bigger nations and I am for it as well. The South African A side does play the touring sides when they are here, but I think that they could help the development of the game by playing against the Associate nations.
@Caesar The truth is that the A Tours would be good for the development of the bigger nations and I am for it as well. The South African A side does play the touring sides when they are here, but I think that they could help the development of the game by playing against the Associate nations.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
The ICC needs to identify those countries that could possibly sustain a first class game and go from there.
Places like Ireland and Scotland could struggle but a joint 'Celtic' league could work. Netherlands could also be included. Two teams from each country (three max) and you have something which is workable.
Likewise, Canada, USA and Bermuda is feasible. You could also have Kenya, Uganda and Zimbabwe and in Asia, UAE, Hong Kong and one other.
Yes, there would be some logistical problems but clever planning could overcome these. Of course, the shorter form of the game is easiest to accommodate but the longer format cannot be allowed to become for the sacred few or it'll die out altogether.
The ICC needs to identify those countries that could possibly sustain a first class game and go from there.
Places like Ireland and Scotland could struggle but a joint 'Celtic' league could work. Netherlands could also be included. Two teams from each country (three max) and you have something which is workable.
Likewise, Canada, USA and Bermuda is feasible. You could also have Kenya, Uganda and Zimbabwe and in Asia, UAE, Hong Kong and one other.
Yes, there would be some logistical problems but clever planning could overcome these. Of course, the shorter form of the game is easiest to accommodate but the longer format cannot be allowed to become for the sacred few or it'll die out altogether.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
In a way what we have been talking about would fit into the view that Warne has - Warne, Buchanan seek revamp after West Indies defeat | Cricket News | Australia v West Indies 2009/10 | Cricinfo.com.
I reckon two tiers of six teams would be a great start. Less games but more to play for.
In a way what we have been talking about would fit into the view that Warne has - Warne, Buchanan seek revamp after West Indies defeat | Cricket News | Australia v West Indies 2009/10 | Cricinfo.com.
I reckon two tiers of six teams would be a great start. Less games but more to play for.
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Yeah, largely based on their home form I believe. Then again, India could go top if they win the last test and I really don't think they've been that great.
Yeah, largely based on their home form I believe. Then again, India could go top if they win the last test and I really don't think they've been that great.
hattrick
Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Rankings should play apart but it needs a massive overhaul and need to calculate the level of the opposition better.
I would add to the idea that a final be played at a neutral venue with neutral umpires..
Two-tier system crucial to saving Test cricket | Herald Sun ..
Rankings should play apart but it needs a massive overhaul and need to calculate the level of the opposition better.
I would add to the idea that a final be played at a neutral venue with neutral umpires..
Two-tier system crucial to saving Test cricket | Herald Sun ..
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
Name of the first Indian test cricket batsman who hit a century in test match against any country?
Regards
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Name of the first Indian test cricket batsman who hit a century in test match against any country?
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cricket bet
mas cambios
Active Member
Re: Test Cricket for Ireland (Face Book)
It seems that Scotland are trying to take a step in the right direction with the introduction with a first class structure (although it won't be first class at the moment).
Plans are to have three teams playing each other on a regular basis. I'd like to see four but that may not be feasible.
It seems that Scotland are trying to take a step in the right direction with the introduction with a first class structure (although it won't be first class at the moment).
Plans are to have three teams playing each other on a regular basis. I'd like to see four but that may not be feasible.