Training vs Break

[TonyM]

Training vs Break

In response to something Dave posted elsewhere I though it was worthy of a thread of its own

I'm looking forward to a 'Jim-esque' match report after that first game! Practice is the key, even though the seasons finished here, we move on to concrete and ashphalt while we can, we might get away with another 6-8 weeks of bowling outside before it gets too cold. I normally have a regime where on Saturday and Sunday morning before lunch we head off to an old tennis court near us. One of us bowls, one bats and the other is the wicket keeper. We have 4 overs each of batting and 4 overs each of bowling and rotate the keeping as well. I stick a couple of cones where mid on and mid off are and encourage the boys to drive past or over the bowler and they score more runs if they hit the fence behind through this zone. This morning was the first time we'd done it this year and it was the first serious practice we'd had for a month or so and my older son was surprised at how out of form he'd got initially but he soon picked it up again and he enjoyed the work out. Joe the little-un couldn't get the ball to turn so he got a bit fed up and wasn't as enthusiastic, but he a bit of a bowl later with me back and forth to the stumps outside the house, so he's still on board.

They'll benefit from the practice as we go inside in Jan for pre-season nets, all the other kids would have stopped at the start of Sept and we would have worked through the winter. I even go as far as to book out indoor sports halls in Nov Dec time so we keep up the bowling.

My lad had trials last week (didnt get in and still not really sure how he came to be at the trials) but I have told him to pack his cricket bag away and get on with something else until after Christmas. I have a couple of issues that I would like him to work on when he comes back but think it will be easier with a good break beforehand

So two schools of thought for lads of a similar age (my lad is 11) is it better to keep going so as to never really be 'out of nick' or to have a break and come back fresh? OK much will depend on the individuals involved and what they would otherwise be doing (I am hoping we play a bit of squash plus he is fairly active with school sports etc but accept he could equally just be playing on his DS) but I have told all the lads at the club to do the same in the hope that when I see them after Christmas they will be keen to get back into their cricket

 

[MV!]

Re: Training vs Break

The fact that you're asking this question suggests that you kind of already know the answer. Giving your boy some time off wins 10 times out of 10.

Mike Boyle wrote up a really short, and really, really good post about this (ignore the fact that it's hockey and 9 year old related - same principle applies to your little bloke): Summer Training for Nine Year Olds? Michael Boyle’s Strengthcoach.com Blog

 

[TonyM]

Re: Training vs Break

The fact that you're asking this question suggests that you kind of already know the answer. Giving your boy some time off wins 10 times out of 10.

Mike Boyle wrote up a really short, and really, really good post about this (ignore the fact that it's hockey and 9 year old related - same principle applies to your little bloke): Summer Training for Nine Year Olds? Michael Boyle’s Strengthcoach.com Blog

Thanks for the link, although I cant think of anything worse than fishing! Although I do like the second part of point 4

As for 'knowing the answer', I am not so sure and would welcome Dave or someone else to argue the case for continuing. My county has winter coaching which starts this month and continues through past Christmas with a number of clubs running sessions both before and after Christmas so its not as cut and dried as you (and me) would like to think.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Training vs Break

OK... I'm not Dave, but happy to play Devil's Advocate

My team always took a break between end of season and winter nets in January. That was fine... however, we always struggled against the teams that continued to play indoor tournaments throughout.

Winter nets, on their own, are not really a good warm up to the season

At the end of the seasons, the top teams in both league and cup, were always the ones that continued to play. My team were always the top of the others.

Having said this... it really depends on the player. Some are 'cricket mad' and wish to continue... not interested in anything else. Give them the opportunity and they will be there with bat in hand. However, my own sons, who are good cricketers, live for their rugby. It can be a bit frustrating if you pay for venues and plan sessions only to find half turn up because the others are busy playing football, hockey, rugby etc.

[another] However, rep players play all year round, to stand a chance, you need to get into the cycle .

BTW Tony, if you are planning on attending David's PitchVision session at Chelmsford, would love to meet up.

 

[TonyM]

Re: Training vs Break

Well thanks for clearing that up Liz, so conventional wisdom is that it is good to have an off season break but dont then expect to beat teams that dont have one

As you may remember I am not a fan of nets generally and think there is usually a better option that is more focussed to produce the desired outcome although I may become a convert once I have done the nets CDW in the next couple of weeks (open minded but not holding my breath). I will probably post a separate thread about what consistutes constructive off season for kids nearer Christmas to pick peoples brains

Wasnt planning on going to the Pitchvision event as it seems to be for players and I no longer fall into that category, but seems silly that we are so close but cant find some excuse to meet up, will keep my eyes peeled

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Training vs Break

Nets are great if you know what you are using them for. They are great to hone technique, both batting and bowling, but they are not really ideal for 'cricket practise'; you need to feel the risks you take everytime you make a move. Doing this the first time [for a while] during the first match of the season is a poor strategy.

Indoor cricket matches are great... the risks are greater and your reactions need to be quicker. Understandably then, that the first match of the season consisting of a team from each camp can only go one way .

I would love to hear your take on the nets CDW and hope you will share your thoughts and experiences when you have completed them.

As for the PitchVision event, I see why you think this is, primarily, for players. I tend to look at things from different angles... I am not a coach, so this system is not really what I need. As a performance analyst, other software would be more suitable for me. However, I may return to coaching one day! If/when I do, I want to make sure I have not fossilised in this area. I have a feeling that the PitchVision system is the future; it changes the standard net scenario into a more real time match situation. As a bonus, you get to learn so much more about how your players perform and are more enabled to help progression. The system is not very expensive and I hope there may be funding available to help Clubs in this area.

As I said, nets are not ideal, unfortunately, due to availability of facilities, players and/or coaches, nets are all we have at times. We just need to know how to maximise their potential. I believe this system may go some way to doing this but I need to see it for myself.

 

[MV!]

Re: Training vs Break

Well thanks for clearing that up Liz, so conventional wisdom is that it is good to have an off season break but dont then expect to beat teams that dont have one

Well, yes... and no. Your kids might lose this year... and maybe next year... and then they'll probably win the year after once the other team has been depleted of all but the uber cricket mad kids that are now burnt out and no longer care to improve.

We're talking 11 year olds here. This is a great and very interesting conversation point for 14 + year olds who are beginning to get a grasp of who they are, what they want in life and starting to really know what role cricket plays in their life. But for 11 year olds an off season is an off season. No ifs and buts. Cricket season is done and so is organised cricket. If a kid wants to play another organised sport, that is just plain awesome. But any cricket they play during that off season should be casual and fun (indoor is fine... so long as it is only taken semi seriously at the very most). At 11, an offseason is a time for fun and for socializing and doing other things, not for hitting the nets and working on fixing your gather, working on the capacity of your front leg to decelerate and concentrating on wrist position. And seriously, in all honesty, with the new stimulus that they are exposed to and the different skill sets required, I wouldn't be surprised if their cricket improved more from an off season of playing rugby or AFL or soccer/ football, than an off season of even more cricket. (A thread about a constructive off season/ beginning of preseason would actually be great and could generate some great discussion, I think.)

Sports for young kids are supposed to be fun. They're supposed to be enjoyed. I've had some very satisfying off season skills sessions in my life - but I find them satisfying because I have an adult value set and I know what role cricket plays in my life. Regardless of how satisfying those skills sessions were, barring maybe some fielding sessions which more resembled playing other sports, I can't remember them ever being FUN!. I know that i've essentially written the same things about 5 times now, but seriously, let the kids have whatever sort of fun they want during the off season (so long as that fun isn't being experienced on a couch or at a desk!)

 

[TonyM]

Re: Training vs Break

OK MV, have it your way an off season of FUN it is

Liz, are you just planning to turn up at the Pitchvision event or have you booked on as a 'non-player' and with a view to just watching their products in action?

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: Training vs Break

I have just booked to attend. I doubt anybody will worry if I do not participate in the orthodox way. It means more time with the coaches and technology for the others . It's only £5 to attend.

However, I do expect to get as much out of it. I hope to gain by seeing how the Academy Coaches coach 'nets'. I am really interested in how this system can improve the mindset as well as technique. More importantly, I want to see how the players interface with the whole system, including the coaching. After all, it's all about how we can improve the whole cricket experience for them.

I know some coaches think/treat it as a gimmick/gadget, and I am sure some players will... a bit like the first time on the Wii Fit but once the novelty wears off, I believe it could be big. I know many small clubs will not be able to afford the system, but it may be worth sharing resources... as you have probably gathered, my mind has stuck on auto and is firing in tangents . It would be great if the Club Captain and a coach could attend from each club; giving an all round feedback, but hey ho!

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Training vs Break

Thanks for the link, although I cant think of anything worse than fishing! Although I do like the second part of point 4

As for 'knowing the answer', I am not so sure and would welcome Dave or someone else to argue the case for continuing. My county has winter coaching which starts this month and continues through past Christmas with a number of clubs running sessions both before and after Christmas so its not as cut and dried as you (and me) would like to think.

Tony et al, I don't think there's an easy answer and this quote in the blog link that MV attached has some resonance............

'Acknowledge that the key problem in youth sports is applying adult values to children’s activities'.

My lads are a very similar in age to Tony's - Ben has just turned 12 a few days ago and Joe was 9 in July. Having read Philpotts a spinners yarn, there's chapter at the start that describes Philpotts day to day cricket activities and if you read both his and Grimmetts books on Wrist spinning the general feel of the books is that if you're going to be good at this lark, you've got to put in the hours and effort to reap the benefits. But, I acknowledge I'm doing that thing where I'm projecting my own values and ideas on my sons and there is a chance it's going to back-fire at some point and I've said elsewhere that I'm aware that I'm treading a fine line between encouraging them and putting them off the sport prematurely and permanently.

Tony alludes to the 'Other activities' aspect as well, in that unlike Philpott and Grimmett when my kids get home from school they're not confronted by the prospects of ............

1. Fine weather for much of the year.
2. A lot of other kids being interested in playing cricket
3. Cricket being 1 of not many options available to you

Instead they're subjected to

1. Television designed to engage them lying on the sofa with 24 different channels.
2. Play stations
3. Computers
4. Mobile Phones
5. Kids wanting to play 1 of 15 or more other activities including football, bikes, skateboards, general playing, etc.
6. Their Mum insisting that somewhere in there is a requirement to do their homework.
7. karate
8. After school football.

In an ideal world as soon as I walk up the street coming home from work I'd like to see the stumps in the middle of the street and 4 or 5 boys playing cricket and the question 'Dad - you going to bowl, and we'll smack you all over the place'? But it doesn't happen, not that I'm bothered.

What does happen is that later on, I'll suggest that we have a knock about and some days they do some days (most days) they don't and I have to accept that.

Generally my kids are active and doing stuff, they have periods of time where they are allowed all the stuff that most kids do, but they also recognise that they are fitter, more agile, stronger, braver, and more rounded than other kids apart from the kids that are obsessed with football - who have other similar physical attributes to them by virtue of playing football. I kind of get my kids doing a whole range of things - loads of old skool stuff so that they're more rounded and potentially better people. I teach 16-18 year olds in FE education and I'm just amazed at how limited they're life experiences are at that age and it's not how I want my kids to be when they're 16-18 years old.

So, after all that - cricket in the off - season? It does pan out to be once a week through October and then as the winter comes in proper it almost diappears. Once a fortnight at best I reckon? My boys are competitive and they do really like getting one over on the competition as I always have, especially through physical and mental prowess, they do see the benefit in training and practice to then facilitate that ability to win, but that burning desire to win isn't such that they'd pick up a ball and practice in the manner that I do. They have an innate belief at this point that what they already do is enough, so the requirement to do more isn't that pressing and their motivation isn't highly intrinsic and they probably leave the decisions as to how much they work on thier cricket to me.

A lot of people also believe as I do that younger boys need to be given guidance and told what to do to some extent and have their lives structured. Boys without any structure to their lives have a tendency to go a bit wayward, so there's an argument there to support keeping them active and guiding them.

As I said at the start it is quite complex. It's not just about cricket it's about being a Dad as well and it's all first time experiences with me with no tempplate for a good model from my own family or friends.

 

[TonyM]

Re: Training vs Break

Agree with pretty much everything there Dave.

The additional dimension I have in 'treading a fine line between encouraging them and putting them off the sport prematurely and permanently' is that it isnt only my lad (will be 12 in Feb so same school year as Ben) its that I have a whole junior section to be responsible for and given that the club went through a pretty traumatic time before my I joined it was a difficult one to call, although MV's fun off season just sounds better and better the more times I read the thread

 

[macca]

Re: Training vs Break

I reckon, from what i have noticed, most kids benefit from having the off-season off. Especially the ones that bowl pace. The ones that train during the off-season do look better cricketers at the start of the season in the early games but as the season progresses that no longer usually applies. What wins the early games in kids cricket is fielding and running between the wickets.

It depends on the kid though, I have to force my young bloke to have a break. He just loves to bowl his legspin. He plays indoor comp as well. When he found out about the outdoor winter comp he wanted to play in that as well. The kids in the rep squads train a bit in winter as well.

I know a lot of guys dont bowl over winter but when the season gets near they over do it. Bowling long spells in the nets and just practising bad habits. Far better to do shorter and more frequent spells with a coach to look on and eyeing each ball, away from the nets out in a middle pitch.

You can coach a young batsman and a young bowler out in the middle with half a dozen balls by just walking around and fielding the balls as they face each other, all the while instructing and watching them. Much better than nets. You can do it all year around where i live and in fact winter is better for us to train in as it is not so hot.

 

[MV!]

Re: Training vs Break

Tony et al, I don't think there's an easy answer and this quote in the blog link that MV attached has some resonance............

'Acknowledge that the key problem in youth sports is applying adult values to children’s activities'.

Dave, this is pretty much the line that made me really think about my position on this topic. As big brothers, fathers, coaches, and senior cricketers, I really do believe it is important that we regularly come back to this thought when we have interactions with any young sports people (whether during an off season, pre-season, in season or during a game).

I really do think that it's super important to have kids experiencing different stimulus during the off season. As non-cricket related as possible, really. In reality, this isn't going to happen that often, and as such, I think that the different intensity of playing indoor cricket and slightly different skills sets required makes it a totally fine off season activity.

I also want to point out that I was addressing Tony as a coach being responsible for numerous kids. My beliefs change a whole lot when it comes to any sort of activity that fosters good relationships between kids and their parents. I'm not a Dad, but when i'm having a hit with my little brothers I'm certainly not thinking about training volume or the appropriateness of whatever sports we're playing for cricket.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Training vs Break

Just adding to this, to give some sense of perspective, I probably wouldn't expect any other form of cricket to happen all week around this time of year and they don't watch it in the same way that I do, so the hour - hour and half that we might get across a weekend is a very small part of the week. So much so, my wife who hates cricket with an unusual level of vehemence always supports my suggestion at the weekend, as at this particular time they're both trying to stay indoors and vegatate.