World ODI team of the decade
- Thread starter gbatman
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Re: World ODI team of the decade
I hope I'm not seen in a bad light for saying this, but I think there are too many sub continent players in that team. I really don't think they are cut out for playing in every ground in the world, especially when the Australian team has dominated the whole time, sometimes by a long way, and yet haven't the highest turn out there.
Plus why hasn't Lee been mentioned? Murali and then Lee top the ratings as the best two bowlers for the decade in the world under almost every single ratings system I have looked across. Lee has an average of 20 with a very low strike rate and an economy of 3.8 (correct me if I'm wrong). Has even a better record than McGrath and Bracken, and better than anyone but Murali from the subcontinent area by far. Surely Murali and Lee have to be in there.
gandalf;385617 said:
I hope I'm not seen in a bad light for saying this, but I think there are too many sub continent players in that team. I really don't think they are cut out for playing in every ground in the world, especially when the Australian team has dominated the whole time, sometimes by a long way, and yet haven't the highest turn out there.
Plus why hasn't Lee been mentioned? Murali and then Lee top the ratings as the best two bowlers for the decade in the world under almost every single ratings system I have looked across. Lee has an average of 20 with a very low strike rate and an economy of 3.8 (correct me if I'm wrong). Has even a better record than McGrath and Bracken, and better than anyone but Murali from the subcontinent area by far. Surely Murali and Lee have to be in there.
lewissaffin
New Member
Re: World ODI team of the decade
1. Jayasuriya
2. Sehwag
3. Ponting
4. Pietersen
5. Jayawardene
6. Singh
7. Flintoff
8. Dhoni
9. Vettori
10. Lee
11. McGrath
1. Jayasuriya
2. Sehwag
3. Ponting
4. Pietersen
5. Jayawardene
6. Singh
7. Flintoff
8. Dhoni
9. Vettori
10. Lee
11. McGrath
Re: World ODI team of the decade
Sure, you could probably justifiably put the Australian ODI team as the "best" world XI - but that kinda defeats the purpose of this exercise. So after the Australians, I can fairly comfortably say that the best ODI players come from the sub-continent.Boris;385671 said:
In that case, maybe you can replace McGrath wit Lee. Without knowing his stats off the top of my head, I just assumed that Lee had a more expensive economy rate. I deliberately left out Murali because quite frankly I don't rate him on non-sub continent pitches - after having seen him fail to impress on about 4 consecutive Australian tours. Aside from that, Vettori is one of the most brilliant one day bowlers I've ever seen, and Abdul Razzaq gets in as arguably the all-rounder of the decade.
Re: World ODI team of the decade
You don't rate Murali on other pitches other than subcontinent, whereas I don't rate any sub continental players outside of their home territory, unless they really step up and show what they are made of in many away series. I agree that Vettori is ahead of Murali, but I don't agree that Hayden and Gilchrist aren't the best openers, that Sehwag who has really only made a name of himself of late (from my point of view anyway) and then if you disclude any of his figures from playing at home and he isn't that great. Hayden may have been the same, but he dominated in India, had an average of 38 in South Africa, and wasn't all to bad in England. I don't include New Zealand because he had a habit of averaging super human figures over there. Gilchrist speaks for himself, a better keeper and batsman.
gandalf;385742 said:
You don't rate Murali on other pitches other than subcontinent, whereas I don't rate any sub continental players outside of their home territory, unless they really step up and show what they are made of in many away series. I agree that Vettori is ahead of Murali, but I don't agree that Hayden and Gilchrist aren't the best openers, that Sehwag who has really only made a name of himself of late (from my point of view anyway) and then if you disclude any of his figures from playing at home and he isn't that great. Hayden may have been the same, but he dominated in India, had an average of 38 in South Africa, and wasn't all to bad in England. I don't include New Zealand because he had a habit of averaging super human figures over there. Gilchrist speaks for himself, a better keeper and batsman.
Re: World ODI team of the decade
Strange that you think Hayden is the best one day opener considering he only played 20 something matches. As for the subcontinent players, I think the stats would surprise you. Take my 2 subcontinent openers for example and you will find that their record in Oceana (Australia and NZ) amongst the best in the world:
Tendulkar: 40 matches, average: 36.13, SR: 81.87, 2 hundreds, 9 fifties and 3 ducks
Jayasuriya: 48 matches, average 27.13, SR 90.69, 4 hundreds, 5 fifties and 7 ducks
Gilchrist averages 36 with a strike rate over 95 - yes probably better, but its pretty harsh to say these sub-continent players don't perform away from home
Boris;385764 said:
Strange that you think Hayden is the best one day opener considering he only played 20 something matches. As for the subcontinent players, I think the stats would surprise you. Take my 2 subcontinent openers for example and you will find that their record in Oceana (Australia and NZ) amongst the best in the world:
Tendulkar: 40 matches, average: 36.13, SR: 81.87, 2 hundreds, 9 fifties and 3 ducks
Jayasuriya: 48 matches, average 27.13, SR 90.69, 4 hundreds, 5 fifties and 7 ducks
Gilchrist averages 36 with a strike rate over 95 - yes probably better, but its pretty harsh to say these sub-continent players don't perform away from home
Re: World ODI team of the decade
I have never rated any sub continent player unless they come to Australia and take it to the Australians, or go to South Africa and take it to them. The only player I have seen do that is Tendulkar and a couple of bowlers. They are the only ones to really impress the whole world.
I'm a little biased because I have a particular disliking for India, but really I can see most of their players being out played in one on ones with other players.
Hayden and Gilchrist changed the face of the game completely. They are the ones that introduced that breakaway opening partnership and showed the whole world what it was all about under all conditions. It's one of those partnerships you can't break up IMO. I'm not just saying this because I'm Australian either, there was no other pair in world cricket that could get you 100 runs off the first 10 overs, and not just in one off things, but at a more consistent rate. If one of them got out then Ponting would just finish off the job they started.
gandalf;385773 said:
I have never rated any sub continent player unless they come to Australia and take it to the Australians, or go to South Africa and take it to them. The only player I have seen do that is Tendulkar and a couple of bowlers. They are the only ones to really impress the whole world.
I'm a little biased because I have a particular disliking for India, but really I can see most of their players being out played in one on ones with other players.
Hayden and Gilchrist changed the face of the game completely. They are the ones that introduced that breakaway opening partnership and showed the whole world what it was all about under all conditions. It's one of those partnerships you can't break up IMO. I'm not just saying this because I'm Australian either, there was no other pair in world cricket that could get you 100 runs off the first 10 overs, and not just in one off things, but at a more consistent rate. If one of them got out then Ponting would just finish off the job they started.
Re: World ODI team of the decade
Well who did? Who were two openers that took on the role after bad form and non expectancy to have to open (respectively) and then were the first to start scoring 100 off the first 10 overs consistently, hitting boundaries from ball one, and were part of lifting one of the greatest teams ever to unheard of greatness? Then stayed in that position for close to 10 years and lifted run rates from 4 to 6 for the whole innings. Before them 220 was considered a good score, with them 260 was constantly possible for the team, no setting off slowly and then going for the bash at the end. A revolutionary partnership not only for Australia, but for the world to look up to.
Thumbs up;386156 said:
Well who did? Who were two openers that took on the role after bad form and non expectancy to have to open (respectively) and then were the first to start scoring 100 off the first 10 overs consistently, hitting boundaries from ball one, and were part of lifting one of the greatest teams ever to unheard of greatness? Then stayed in that position for close to 10 years and lifted run rates from 4 to 6 for the whole innings. Before them 220 was considered a good score, with them 260 was constantly possible for the team, no setting off slowly and then going for the bash at the end. A revolutionary partnership not only for Australia, but for the world to look up to.
Thumbs up
Member
Re: World ODI team of the decade
There have been many attacking pairs who chased the bowling early in the innings, Greenidge and Haynes, Gilchrist and Mark Waugh but the modern style of one day cricket was significantly affected by Romesh Kaluwitharana and Sanath Jayasuriya.
Do not dismiss these two as being not good enough because of you lack of liking for sub-continental players. They came, they saw, they conquered.
Boris;386183 said:
There have been many attacking pairs who chased the bowling early in the innings, Greenidge and Haynes, Gilchrist and Mark Waugh but the modern style of one day cricket was significantly affected by Romesh Kaluwitharana and Sanath Jayasuriya.
Do not dismiss these two as being not good enough because of you lack of liking for sub-continental players. They came, they saw, they conquered.
Caesar
Member
Re: World ODI team of the decade
EDIT: Damn, beaten. What TU said. The Sri Lankan opening pair of the mid-90s redefined one-day cricket, it's not even a contest. Everyone who came afterwards was merely following their lead.
Saneth Jayasuriya and Romesh Kaluwitharana say hi.Boris;385796 said:
EDIT: Damn, beaten. What TU said. The Sri Lankan opening pair of the mid-90s redefined one-day cricket, it's not even a contest. Everyone who came afterwards was merely following their lead.
Caesar
Member
Re: World ODI team of the decade
I don't think anyone would disagree that those two openers weren't a very dominant opening pair, it's just being pointed out that what they did wasn't innovative. They were just very good at it.
Boris, you got called on saying something that was factually incorrect, that's all. Hayden and Gilchrist didn't introduce the breakaway opening partnership. Sri Lanka did, and they were so successful at it that everyone started copying them.Boris;386308 said:
I don't think anyone would disagree that those two openers weren't a very dominant opening pair, it's just being pointed out that what they did wasn't innovative. They were just very good at it.
Re: World ODI team of the decade
Really, your talking about an era when that method had already become well and trully established. The era of 220 scores had ended probably 10 years before Gilchrist and Hayden came on the scene. I guess what you are trying to say is that Gilchrist and Hayden were the first successful executioners of that method - which I tried to investigate but statsguru on cricinfo is giving me grief. My suspicion is that the likes of Ganguly/Tendulkar and Jayasuriya/Attapatu had comparable records - but as I'm sure you would point out they play most of their games on the sub-continent.
Boris;386183 said:
Really, your talking about an era when that method had already become well and trully established. The era of 220 scores had ended probably 10 years before Gilchrist and Hayden came on the scene. I guess what you are trying to say is that Gilchrist and Hayden were the first successful executioners of that method - which I tried to investigate but statsguru on cricinfo is giving me grief. My suspicion is that the likes of Ganguly/Tendulkar and Jayasuriya/Attapatu had comparable records - but as I'm sure you would point out they play most of their games on the sub-continent.
Re: World ODI team of the decade
You are comparing statistical records when this is a moral (or should it be called demoralising) point. These two introduced the best form of defence is attack to all forms of their cricketing, I would call those two and Ricky Ponting just beneath them the best opening/number 3 group of batsmen to grace the ODI world, and probably will be like that for quite a while, so therefore in a team of the decade I wouldn't dare to break them up. They are reknowned world-wide as the pair that changed ODI cricket, I will even try and find a couple of quotes, one I remember from Graeme Smith:"There has never been such an opening pair before and they completely outplayed us tonight those two, that pair is the future for ODI batting."
You are comparing statistical records when this is a moral (or should it be called demoralising) point. These two introduced the best form of defence is attack to all forms of their cricketing, I would call those two and Ricky Ponting just beneath them the best opening/number 3 group of batsmen to grace the ODI world, and probably will be like that for quite a while, so therefore in a team of the decade I wouldn't dare to break them up. They are reknowned world-wide as the pair that changed ODI cricket, I will even try and find a couple of quotes, one I remember from Graeme Smith:"There has never been such an opening pair before and they completely outplayed us tonight those two, that pair is the future for ODI batting."
courtjester
Member
Re: World ODI team of the decade
1. S.Tendulkar
2. A.Gilchrist
3. R.Ponting
4. M.S.Dhoni
5. A.Symonds
6. M.Hussey
7. A.Flintoff
8. B.Lee
9. S.Bond
10. G.McGrath
11. M.Muralitharan
1. S.Tendulkar
2. A.Gilchrist
3. R.Ponting
4. M.S.Dhoni
5. A.Symonds
6. M.Hussey
7. A.Flintoff
8. B.Lee
9. S.Bond
10. G.McGrath
11. M.Muralitharan