Interesting option Dave. I have a lad in our under 13s who does just what that girl did, virtually all top spinners but very acurate (for youth cricket) and finished the season with 16.5-0-49-5, generally as our first change bowler and I would guess at least 20 of those runs were where he tried to bowl something different, particularly at the start of the season. I think in time his 'variation' is more likely to be a change of pace rather than a real ripping leg break as it looks too different, but will see how he goes.
Wrist Spin Bowling (part Five)
- Thread starter Richard the Third
- Start date
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah the little bit of work I've done with it so far has come up with some interesting results, been bowling to Ben, Joe and Frank Farringtons Dad who can dispatch my leggies fairly easily, but the Top-Spinners with their 'On the stumps' attribute are far more threatening it seems and with the over-spin I think there's a dip factor and more bounce. There's also the fact that with only a little angling of the wrist the ball with produce a little break to either the off or leg - again with good line and length. I know that this goes against the 'Spin it hard' school of thought, but my best figures were produced bowling far more conservatively 2 or 3 seasons ago.
Resting my arm as much as I can at the minute to see if that helps with the muscle pain this Saturday when I'm due to bowl again.
The thing about topspinners is that they're very hard to drive, because due to the dip and bounce they're only in that driving "region" (about 6 inches off the ground) for a split second, so its very easy to play over the top of them or accidentally chip them up in the air.
So if you keep them pitched up on a length and keep them bang on middle and off, then there isn't really a safe attacking shot that a batsman can play. He can't pull, he can't play them square of the wicket, and he can't really drive at them very safely either.
I think one of the hardest styles of spin bowling to bat against is the topspinner specialist who occasionally just gets the ball to just go a couple of inches either way.
Still need to spin it hard of course - but big spin doesn't necessarily imply big turn.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Sounds promising then? I'll give this a go over the final matches and work on it over the coming months. I've seen several people recently bowl simply line and length and come away having virtually secured the match for them and they get loads of overs and as you say if I can then bowl the odd small wrong un or leggie in there - it could be productive. Yeah I'm giving it as much over-spin as I can, but it just seems to be conducive with massively increased accuracy.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
It seems we're witnessing the death throes of this forum what with the spamming of the coaching thread forums, I for one will be gutted if it's closed down, but no doubt will just go elsewhere. But as someone has pointed out such a lot has gone into this forum over the last few years - but I'm not sure if that can be salvaged? It seems the admins who anecdotally seem to be young blokes, have all moved on in life and their commitment to this website has waned. So what shall we do? One solution might be a blog with some of the core contributors having admin rights - maybe 6-8 of us? Other than that we just move - but that may end up in the same way, because if you just look around all the forums they have all seemingly been killed off by Facebook and Twatter. Any ideas? Or am I jumping the gun here?
GoldenArm
Member
What spamming is this Dave? sorry I'm a bit behind here obviously! I quite like the idea of moving on somewhere else, a forum purely for spin bowling would be great but obviously that needs to be maintained and all that jazz, I'd do it myself if i had any clue where to begin. If you look at how Custom Bats forum has grown over the last 4 years that gives you a clue as to how a well run forum should look, they are now associated with All Out Cricket and have numerous forum sponsors to keep the money flowing somewhat. But of course cricket bats being a physical item which can be bought and sold adds an economic dimension to that forum which a spin bowling one would not possess, and of course a lot more people have/covet bats than bowl spin with the kind of fervour we do. This is a project I could get on board with anyway! Lets do it Dave!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Just have a look at the general coaching section. But having said that if you look at the Aussie club sections they're pretty alive with comments, but it's only us and that section where anything is happening.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
Yeah that looks interesting (CBF) 160 + members on-line right now as opposed to our 12! We'd have to convince them to create a spin section, otherwise we'd get lost in all the general cricket stuff. There's a couple of places we could migrate to if this forum disappears. I think using a blog is too basic and I haven't got a clue (like you) how to start a forum.
Spinoza
New Member
Agree with Dave, the forum is dying but there's a wealth of info I keep digging out every now & then.
So, I can think of 2 options without much overhead:
a) all the contents could be moved into someone's existing blog -it's not quite copy-paste, but could be done by folks with web/database management skills.
b) create a facebook page itself and keep it moderated- the advantage is that there are blogging options there
https://www.facebook.com/notes/blog...-posts-to-facebook-automatically/245596473016
+ adding photos & videos is easier here. although, discussion on some technical aspect is reduced to "comments" box in there-making it less readable than responses in a blog.
So, I can think of 2 options without much overhead:
a) all the contents could be moved into someone's existing blog -it's not quite copy-paste, but could be done by folks with web/database management skills.
b) create a facebook page itself and keep it moderated- the advantage is that there are blogging options there
https://www.facebook.com/notes/blog...-posts-to-facebook-automatically/245596473016
+ adding photos & videos is easier here. although, discussion on some technical aspect is reduced to "comments" box in there-making it less readable than responses in a blog.
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I think we just need to hold our breath for a little while and see what happens. But have been looking around at this http://www.proboards.com/free-forum-features and if everything is to be believed, it sounds like I/we could easily start up our own forum!
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
The more I look at this the more I'm convinced it'll be easy!
G'day all,
I've been following this thread and its precursors for a couple of seasons now, not because I bowl leg spin, but because my 13 year old son does. I've been applying the collective wisdom I've gleaned from you lot as I coach him outside the team enviroment, and it has worked a treat.
Now he has progressed to the stage where he is in the district squad for pre-season training and is finally getting some coaching from people who play cricket AND know something about spin bowling (I think ...). (I personally don't play and know very little, but you guys know a lot!
)
My questions relate to what they have told him to do with his feet on the delivery stride. At the moment, he steps across the crease with his front foot, so that his left foot is about 8 to 10" closer to the centre of the pitch than his right foot (RH bowler). He uses this stance to induce body twist during delivery. The coaches have instructed him to keep his feet parallel to the centre line of the pitch on the delivery stride, but when he does this, he claims to lose spin. (During an exercise at the last session, they had him bowl from a standing position - sans run up - and he still achieved good spin and accuracy, so I don't believe him completely when he says he can't spin it with a straightened up delivery stride.)
The reasoning is a straight delivery stride is more accurate that a diagonal one.
Firstly, are they right to tell him to straighten up his delivery stride, even though he has got his action working for him now?
Secondly, if their instructions are correct, how can he regain his "lost" spin? Should he rotate about his hips more? Or will that induce injury during the course of his career?
Right now, I have strongly suggested he does what they say, at least for the remaining two weeks of the "selection phase" of this squad training. The silver lining is that, if nothing else, it gives him a variation that can't be picked by the batsman who only watches the arm and hand.
Cheers,
Graeme
I've been following this thread and its precursors for a couple of seasons now, not because I bowl leg spin, but because my 13 year old son does. I've been applying the collective wisdom I've gleaned from you lot as I coach him outside the team enviroment, and it has worked a treat.
Now he has progressed to the stage where he is in the district squad for pre-season training and is finally getting some coaching from people who play cricket AND know something about spin bowling (I think ...). (I personally don't play and know very little, but you guys know a lot!
)My questions relate to what they have told him to do with his feet on the delivery stride. At the moment, he steps across the crease with his front foot, so that his left foot is about 8 to 10" closer to the centre of the pitch than his right foot (RH bowler). He uses this stance to induce body twist during delivery. The coaches have instructed him to keep his feet parallel to the centre line of the pitch on the delivery stride, but when he does this, he claims to lose spin. (During an exercise at the last session, they had him bowl from a standing position - sans run up - and he still achieved good spin and accuracy, so I don't believe him completely when he says he can't spin it with a straightened up delivery stride.)
The reasoning is a straight delivery stride is more accurate that a diagonal one.
Firstly, are they right to tell him to straighten up his delivery stride, even though he has got his action working for him now?
Secondly, if their instructions are correct, how can he regain his "lost" spin? Should he rotate about his hips more? Or will that induce injury during the course of his career?
Right now, I have strongly suggested he does what they say, at least for the remaining two weeks of the "selection phase" of this squad training. The silver lining is that, if nothing else, it gives him a variation that can't be picked by the batsman who only watches the arm and hand.
Cheers,
Graeme
Do what the coaches say, there's nothing wrong with an angled run up and even slightly closed action but at the end of the day the body weight should be going toward the target and that is best done with the feet aligned.
An action with one foot 8 to 10 inches closer to the centre line is extreme, your son can look forward to a long life of side strains, back and hip injuries if he carries on with his current action. What your son is feeling is not 'spinning the ball hard' but his body fighting against itself as it try's to get his hips round to deliver the ball. This is very common in young bowlers where they think feeling like you're doing something means you must be doing something, this is only true if the basics of your action are sound.
The reason for all of this alignment is not only accuracy but it also means you're not wasting energy getting the ball down the over end and it gives you an easy reference point when things go wrong (not bowling straight? Was my follow through straight? etc.). The best way of thinking about it is if your bowling action was based on you consistently getting that 8 to 10 inch difference, how hard is that going to be to manage in the long run?
An action with one foot 8 to 10 inches closer to the centre line is extreme, your son can look forward to a long life of side strains, back and hip injuries if he carries on with his current action. What your son is feeling is not 'spinning the ball hard' but his body fighting against itself as it try's to get his hips round to deliver the ball. This is very common in young bowlers where they think feeling like you're doing something means you must be doing something, this is only true if the basics of your action are sound.
The reason for all of this alignment is not only accuracy but it also means you're not wasting energy getting the ball down the over end and it gives you an easy reference point when things go wrong (not bowling straight? Was my follow through straight? etc.). The best way of thinking about it is if your bowling action was based on you consistently getting that 8 to 10 inch difference, how hard is that going to be to manage in the long run?
I don't think he should change his bowling action because if he has spent so long developing it, it is probably more complex than the individual factors, so changing one factor might not affect it in the way that you expect it to. Also, there are many good bowlers who have very different bowling actions, so it shows there is more than one way to bowl good balls. What matters is the result, the action doesn't really matter by itself.G'day all,
I've been following this thread and its precursors for a couple of seasons now, not because I bowl leg spin, but because my 13 year old son does. I've been applying the collective wisdom I've gleaned from you lot as I coach him outside the team enviroment, and it has worked a treat.
Now he has progressed to the stage where he is in the district squad for pre-season training and is finally getting some coaching from people who play cricket AND know something about spin bowling (I think ...). (I personally don't play and know very little, but you guys know a lot!
My questions relate to what they have told him to do with his feet on the delivery stride. At the moment, he steps across the crease with his front foot, so that his left foot is about 8 to 10" closer to the centre of the pitch than his right foot (RH bowler). He uses this stance to induce body twist during delivery. The coaches have instructed him to keep his feet parallel to the centre line of the pitch on the delivery stride, but when he does this, he claims to lose spin. (During an exercise at the last session, they had him bowl from a standing position - sans run up - and he still achieved good spin and accuracy, so I don't believe him completely when he says he can't spin it with a straightened up delivery stride.)
The reasoning is a straight delivery stride is more accurate that a diagonal one.
Firstly, are they right to tell him to straighten up his delivery stride, even though he has got his action working for him now?
Secondly, if their instructions are correct, how can he regain his "lost" spin? Should he rotate about his hips more? Or will that induce injury during the course of his career?
Right now, I have strongly suggested he does what they say, at least for the remaining two weeks of the "selection phase" of this squad training. The silver lining is that, if nothing else, it gives him a variation that can't be picked by the batsman who only watches the arm and hand.
Cheers,
Graeme
gundalf7
Active Member
his lost spin maybe due less pivot or could be if he's just learning making him bowl with a straight approach eh maybe more front on which will make him bowl topspinners instead of legbreaks. Alot of professional leggies do approach from slighty angled run upn, tahir does and warne did to a slight degree
someblokecalleddave
Well-Known Member
I reckon a fair few of us would migrate over to a new forum if it happens and it doesn't take a lot of traffic to get yourself in the top ten option in a google search - I mean - my blog has been on several ocassions the first choice in front of wikipedia, Warne videos and like, so I reckon we'd easily make our presence made even if it was a totally new off the peg type forum. Wrist Spinning and spinning in general is a very niche subject area with very esoteric terminology so easily found when searching on Google.