Wrist Spin Bowling

[Ripping-LegBreak]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Recently i've tried to get my third finger to drag the ball but generally i've always been a bowler who flicked their wrist. I always concentrate on my palm facing the batsmen but i just don't understand why i could get it wrong if i havn't practiced the toppie. I feel the ball flicking off the thirdfinger with the wrist slightly cocked inwards and i concentrate on completing a circular motion, maybe my hand might be going over the ball instead of around it because i feel i'm flicking my wrist forward as opposed to flicking it to the side, so it starts of with a legbreak position and it just finishes rotating forward accidently.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave some of the faster, taller, bouncier legspinners do prefer a tailwind, that is why Grimmett and O' Rielly combined so well. O' Reilly preferred the wind behind him and Grimmett , of course preferred the opposite.

I cant believe that the only people in the world who seem to know the truth about Grimmetts mystery ball are us. Philpott must Know for instance, I know someone with links to Manly Cricket Club, so maybe I can get to ask him, I have not seen 'Art of Wrist Spin' at the library for ages , but I was sure he went into detail on it, maybe it was in an older edition.

Certainly Grimmetts biographer and people that have reviewed the book " Scarlett" have not gerried to the fact. David Firths review implies he does not know either. There is one passage they rely on where they are clearly confusing his experiments with an iverson style finger "flick" and his work with the finger "click" once you clear that up it becomes obvious.

I cant believe the whole thing, it is not the bloody Da Vinci Code, just read his 1948 book! Bradman carrys so much weight, that just because Bradman did not get the humour in the first book, and was jealous of Grimmett being allowed to write the book on the 1930 boat trip to England, whereas Bradman wrote a book without permission and got into trouble, people just go along with whatever the great batsman says. Grimmett also rubbishes Bradmans' grip and rates several batsmen above Bradman in ability if not record in the 1948 book, but lots in that era rated Trumper a better batsman, I prefer to watch Laxman to Tendulkar, I think Laxman is a better batsman, that is my opinion, no-one can say I am right or wrong despite their records, it all depends how you personally define good batsmanship. So everyone continues to discredit the books. B ut the 1948 book cant be a hoax or complete falshood.

I contacted Mallett one last time , I promised I would not bother him again, but I said mate, you have it all wrong, the ball that dismissed Chipperfield and Barnes in Sydney in 1940 were almost certainly overspinning flippers and not backspinners. I will see what happens.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I have not heard back from Ashley Mallett yet, I will give him till this afternoon. Then I will email my theory in detail, and if I dont hear back I will go to the Society of Cricket Historians, or another writer or journalist.

Chapter 12 of Malletts books is required reading for the legspinner,even though he was an offie he was coached by Grimmett and knows what things he emphasised in his method. For instance Grimmett used change of pace constantly and continuously, no two balls were the same pace, except on purpose.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I had seen that video jug in the past. It seems to be endorsed by the MCC. Might explain why England recently have not produced a leg spinner of repute. If it really is from the MCC it is really shameful. No wonder he does not turn it at all on the video.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo, I just emailed you plate 14. I thought I had but a bit mustn't have got through .I am going to reformat it to a smaller file so i well send it all then. Grimmett wanted a topspinner that did not bounce too much, he always had the umpires in his pocket, they were as mesmerised as any one else with his bowling, but untill he came along legspinners rarely got lbw.

He sees this ball as fitting into one of his main maxims; that a legspinner should gain or appear to gain pace, (because he states it is scientically impossible to do so) off the wicket most of the time, except as a rare variation and he means by that about none for two hundred and something.

The modern flipper to him doesn't, it cant with backspin, and he used that flipper rarely more as a change of pace ball along with another"slider" he describes on page 50. You would have to be observant to work out his flipper from his description, but it is obvious to modern eyes.

Thank you got the plate never saw this bowled before. I was under the impression that he mainly bowled the flipper like jenner, even from those stories of clicking his other hand while bowling the leggie, or the story that the don taunted him by telling him that he only knew how to bowl the flipper.

Did you try to bowl it yourself and if yes it it difficult to bowl, and is it slower in the air than the leg break? Also does it have an element of offspin?

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm sure that many of the comments on youtube are made by the likes of 17 year old kids at college with nothing better to do rather than try and illicit reponses from people. You only have to look at the garbage that's on there relating to both the Murali and Warne videos. I think people have commented on one of the clips of my son Joe about how rubbish he is, but I don't even bother looking anymore and if I upload them in future I think I'll probably use the feature on there that denies access to virtually everyone other than people you want to see them. I think there's something like that on there.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Recently i've tried to get my third finger to drag the ball but generally i've always been a bowler who flicked their wrist. I always concentrate on my palm facing the batsmen but i just don't understand why i could get it wrong if i havn't practiced the toppie. I feel the ball flicking off the thirdfinger with the wrist slightly cocked inwards and i concentrate on completing a circular motion, maybe my hand might be going over the ball instead of around it because i feel i'm flicking my wrist forward as opposed to flicking it to the side, so it starts of with a legbreak position and it just finishes rotating forward accidently.

It could easily be something as simple as this. I have to concentrate massively in order for everything to go smoothly, if I don't concentrate and focus on what I'm doing it just doesn't happen.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I contacted Mallett one last time , I promised I would not bother him again, but I said mate, you have it all wrong, the ball that dismissed Chipperfield and Barnes in Sydney in 1940 were almost certainly overspinning flippers and not backspinners. I will see what happens.

Whoa! I wonder what he'll make of that?

With regards the wind that sounds as though it'll work out fine then, I'll bowl into the wind and the Wizard will take the Bill O'reilly approach. Did you see the comment earlier about the Top Spinner - what do you reckon?

Terry Jenner "This is a lovely ball when the batsman is looking to drive because you get extra bounce and you can get caught and bowled".

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Recently i've tried to get my third finger to drag the ball but generally i've always been a bowler who flicked their wrist. I always concentrate on my palm facing the batsmen but i just don't understand why i could get it wrong if i havn't practiced the toppie. I feel the ball flicking off the thirdfinger with the wrist slightly cocked inwards and i concentrate on completing a circular motion, maybe my hand might be going over the ball instead of around it because i feel i'm flicking my wrist forward as opposed to flicking it to the side, so it starts of with a legbreak position and it just finishes rotating forward accidently.

I empathise with you. I saw mishra the other day.He is a very good indian leg spinner currently playing in the IPL. He had a small flick of the wrist, but the most important seemed to be the knob like turning of the ball by the fingers in an anticlockwise manner. He mainly bowls small legbreaks, with the seam pointing to first slip. Having said that he has a beautiful wrong one, that is effortless.Hope that helps a bit.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Dave some of the faster, taller, bouncier legspinners do prefer a tailwind, that is why Grimmett and O' Rielly combined so well. O' Reilly preferred the wind behind him and Grimmett , of course preferred the opposite.

I cant believe that the only people in the world who seem to know the truth about Grimmetts mystery ball are us. Philpott must Know for instance, I know someone with links to Manly Cricket Club, so maybe I can get to ask him, I have not seen 'Art of Wrist Spin' at the library for ages , but I was sure he went into detail on it, maybe it was in an older edition.

Certainly Grimmetts biographer and people that have reviewed the book " Scarlett" have not gerried to the fact. David Firths review implies he does not know either. There is one passage they rely on where they are clearly confusing his experiments with an iverson style finger "flick" and his work with the finger "click" once you clear that up it becomes obvious.

I cant believe the whole thing, it is not the bloody Da Vinci Code, just read his 1948 book! Bradman carrys so much weight, that just because Bradman did not get the humour in the first book, and was jealous of Grimmett being allowed to write the book on the 1930 boat trip to England, whereas Bradman wrote a book without permission and got into trouble, people just go along with whatever the great batsman says. Grimmett also rubbishes Bradmans' grip and rates several batsmen above Bradman in ability if not record in the 1948 book, but lots in that era rated Trumper a better batsman, I prefer to watch Laxman to Tendulkar, I think Laxman is a better batsman, that is my opinion, no-one can say I am right or wrong despite their records, it all depends how you personally define good batsmanship. So everyone continues to discredit the books. B ut the 1948 book cant be a hoax or complete falshood.

I contacted Mallett one last time , I promised I would not bother him again, but I said mate, you have it all wrong, the ball that dismissed Chipperfield and Barnes in Sydney in 1940 were almost certainly overspinning flippers and not backspinners. I will see what happens.

It is a shame that such gems such as this 1948 book are never reprinted. Woolmer in his manual quotes grimmett only. As far as I know he does not mention jenner. He also states that the ultimate reference though is philpotts book. I also cannot understand how people can write a biography of a person just because he coached him. I do not get the impression that the gentleman has a great understanding of leg spin. He should stick to a manual of offspin, for which he is very good.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I have not heard back from Ashley Mallett yet, I will give him till this afternoon. Then I will email my theory in detail, and if I dont hear back I will go to the Society of Cricket Historians, or another writer or journalist.

Chapter 12 of Malletts books is required reading for the legspinner,even though he was an offie he was coached by Grimmett and knows what things he emphasised in his method. For instance Grimmett used change of pace constantly and continuously, no two balls were the same pace, except on purpose.

The book still does not seem to be available on amazon or play.com sadly.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

By the way the great geoffrey boycott, considers the greatest legspinner to be an english man....Sydney Barnes. Some say he was more of a medium pacer though, much like O'Reilly.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

But your right this is all getting very complex. But I think it's dead interesting and I can't believe that there's not more information on all these subtleties to wrist spinning. The potential for variations is seemingly vast the only issue is how much life have you got to experiment with them all! I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the subject as there isn't such a thing other than Philpotts. Today at work I was talking to one of the Publishing course lecturers and she was showing me the students 'Final Major Project' work. They have to write and make a book and they get a book company to make them a short runs of books. So a 50 page book you can have about 10 copies made for 25 quid. I asked her if you were to do this, would the book then be a good vehicle with which to approach publishing companies with a view to printing the book on a commercial scale and she said yes. She used to be a big name in the group Random House and she said that she'd help me write it and get it together. So that's something to think about?

That would be a great idea. Maybe get a foreword from philpott or warne. It is true it is surprising that so little is available on the net on leg spin and its variation. We had never heard of this new topspinner that Macca was explaining. It is surprising that you do not even find the distinction between the small and big leg break, something that seems so basic to a quality spinner. Even benaud and jenner never commented on this. I wonder whether the wings to fly goes into these details. And Macca in the course you went to, did they ever delve into thes basics?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca, are you aware of any 'manuals' on leg spin by O'Reilly. He was very good at writing, so I would not really be surprised.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Recently i've tried to get my third finger to drag the ball but generally i've always been a bowler who flicked their wrist. I always concentrate on my palm facing the batsmen but i just don't understand why i could get it wrong if i havn't practiced the toppie. I feel the ball flicking off the thirdfinger with the wrist slightly cocked inwards and i concentrate on completing a circular motion, maybe my hand might be going over the ball instead of around it because i feel i'm flicking my wrist forward as opposed to flicking it to the side, so it starts of with a legbreak position and it just finishes rotating forward accidently.

Some bowlers seem to have the topspinner as their natural delivery which is ok, some though it becomes their stock ball( keery o keefe for instance) which is a worry.

When my son seems locked on topspinner we do a lot of work , especially the day before and the morning of the match bowling over a short distance and checking the seam to make sure we are legspinning, doing lots of underarm and roundarm legspin, short distances. Also what works for him, and this is slightly counter to wrongun syndrome theory, is bowling a fair few wronguns in a row the day before even though he might not bowl one if he gets less than 4 overs bowling in the innings, and that seems to help get away from topspinning as well, I dont know why but it seems to help suppleness of the wrist.

I notice if we do this before the game he usually has his sidespin back, it might only work for him but it definately does.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Topsin or Overspin

First of all, lets hold it so its (invisible) axle is at right angles to us, and set it spinning so its top moves away from us and its bottom towards us (Looking from the right hand side, this is clockwise). Now lets throw it, still spinning, away from us towards a suitably attired friend (bat, pads, box, gloves...).

So, what happens when it bounces? The vertical component of its velocity reverses direction, still, just like any other bouncing ball. Its underside is moving towards us, so it will acquire velocity in a direction opposite to that, namely away from us, towards our friend. This will add to the existing horizontal component of its velocity towards him.

The result of this is that the tyre will speed up when it bounces. It will get to him faster than a ordinary, non-spinning tyre, because the component of its velocity towards him has increased, and it won't have had time to bounce as high as a result.

This is topsin. The characteristic behaviour of a topspun object when it bounces, as I hope I've just shown, is that it speeds up and seems to keep low, to 'shoot'.

The bit that I find contentious is the last line 'And seems to keep low - to shoot'

Now please correct me if I'm wrong but the Top Spinner surely rises rather than keeps low? I get very worried when I read this stuff on sites such as cricinfo because it turns my world upside down!

Here's the source Cricinfo - The physics of legspin bowling

Well that does not describe the legspinners topspinner, but of course it does descibe the overspinning flipper in that it does not bounce any where near as much as the conventional topspinner, but the author does not mean that so he is wrong I suppose.

I still had not got the release right untill I read Daves description and now I release it more facing me and the result seems to defy convention in that it seems to really gather pace on pitching after such a slow loop and unbelievable drop.

No wonder Grimmett was bitter at missing the 38 ashes tour, he had just perfected the ball in that same year that would have been devastating on English wickets, especially if you had not faced it before.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Wings to Fly may eventually become a reality this Sunday as I've got my first game with Grays & Chadwell - this is the game where we're fielding 4 Leg Spinners and one off spinner!

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

By the way the great geoffrey boycott, considers the greatest legspinner to be an english man....Sydney Barnes. Some say he was more of a medium pacer though, much like O'Reilly.

Yes statistically Sydney Barnes may be the greatest bowler in history with Grimmett a close second. Although just as Bradman did not consider O'Reilly to be a legspinner so Barnes was more a legcutter. Bradman called Grimmett the greatest of the slow legspinners. After Bradman and Warne were both voted in the 5 Wisden Cricketers of the 20 century Bradman left out Warne in his alltime Austalian Team but found a spot for Grimmett.

Bradman nominates O ' Rielly the greateast bowler he saw, but I think that is tit for tat for Grimmetts nomination of Trumper as the best batsman he saw. Grimmett had more success bowling to the Don than O' Rielly, and O' Reilly said the greatest bowler he ever saw was Grimmett.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

And Macca in the course you went to, did they ever delve into thes basics?

I havent done the spin part yet last year it was David Freedman that gave instruction but I missed it, I dont know who it will be this year

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo how much info is there in the Woolmer book? I heard there wasn't a great deal. I also read in an old leg spin thread on here that the Wings to Fly video features Jenner. I wonder how much he's going to add to the stuff that's freely available on the net?

I've just had a look at the BBC version of the Jenner video where he bowls indoors and noticed something he says and does relating to the Flipper. His delivery is a loopier version of the ball well above the batsmans eye level and he goes on to say that you pitch it shorter than any of the other balls. This is something I've been working on, but I reckon you could only get away with it once or twice with any batsman.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I havent done the spin part yet last year it was David Freedman that gave instruction but I missed it, I dont know who it will be this year

But when you had a session with jenner/philpott inthe past, i do not remember which one did they go into detail on this? And how about trying to get your son's coach interested in this forum?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Here's that bloke again Mike Whittaker on cricinfo. Not only is he a Flipper denier but he comes up with this theory relating to the Top-Spinner.....

Topsin or Overspin

First of all, lets hold it so its (invisible) axle is at right angles to us, and set it spinning so its top moves away from us and its bottom towards us (Looking from the right hand side, this is clockwise). Now lets throw it, still spinning, away from us towards a suitably attired friend (bat, pads, box, gloves...).

So, what happens when it bounces? The vertical component of its velocity reverses direction, still, just like any other bouncing ball. Its underside is moving towards us, so it will acquire velocity in a direction opposite to that, namely away from us, towards our friend. This will add to the existing horizontal component of its velocity towards him.

The result of this is that the tyre will speed up when it bounces. It will get to him faster than a ordinary, non-spinning tyre, because the component of its velocity towards him has increased, and it won't have had time to bounce as high as a result.

This is topsin. The characteristic behaviour of a topspun object when it bounces, as I hope I've just shown, is that it speeds up and seems to keep low, to 'shoot'.

The bit that I find contentious is the last line 'And seems to keep low - to shoot'

Now please correct me if I'm wrong but the Top Spinner surely rises rather than keeps low? I get very worried when I read this stuff on sites such as cricinfo because it turns my world upside down!

Here's the source Cricinfo - The physics of legspin bowling

Yes he gets it completely wrong. Thank god that even people who are interested in leg spin get it wrong.That means that batsmen should not have a clue. I must confess that when I see a leggie on tv, even I find it difficult to notice what variation is being bowled ,bar the legspinner at normal speeds. Reading from the hand takes experience. Thats why the Indians played warne better.They are more used to playing leggies since they are young. So they are closer to doing/playing it 10,000 times. It is automatic for them like driving a car.You can see this when india first played mendis. They had no clue, as they had never faced anything of the sort before. So dave, cover drive 10,000 times and you should be more elegant than Vaughan(though you may get the same runs as him). Just being nasty.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Wings to Fly may eventually become a reality this Sunday as I've got my first game with Grays & Chadwell - this is the game where we're fielding 4 Leg Spinners and one off spinner!

Good luck. Will it be the sunday seconds?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Macca, are you aware of any 'manuals' on leg spin by O'Reilly. He was very good at writing, so I would not really be surprised.

I dont think he wrote one manual, but there is lots to learn from his articles. His method is put down on paper by Benaud who says he based his simple instuctions on O'Reiilys advise to him. Even one of the last pieces he wrote on Warne is fascinating, O'Rielly is full of field placing suggestions in his articles plus lots of other sage observations from a wise old legspinner.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

By the way, Warne got three wickets in 4 overs today in the IPL. Sadly did not see the match.


Also the aussies have not selected any wrist spinner, so no Casson or McGain sadly. Only Katich will get the odd over it seems or maybe white but I doubt he will make the test side unless there are loads of injuries. He will play the shorter version. Any way his stock delivery is the non turning leg break.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo how much info is there in the Woolmer book? I heard there wasn't a great deal. I also read in an old leg spin thread on here that the Wings to Fly video features Jenner. I wonder how much he's going to add to the stuff that's freely available on the net?

There is not a shed load. But to be fair on him he quotes the 2 greatest books, those by grimmett and philpott, so he did his research well. I think jenner keeps added information for the clinics he undertakes. If he publishes a manual what will he have left to say in his clinics. On you tube there is an old clip of warne coaching/teaching the legbreak, so he must have done a video early in his carreer. I get the impression that there must be a conspiracy wherby leg spinners have an oath of not exposing too much knowledge, a sort of freemasonary. Everything is unwritten and transcended by word of mouth only. What do you think?

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yep apart from - Top-spinner, back of the hand faces you and your thumb points forward at the batsman.

But your right this is all getting very complex. But I think it's dead interesting and I can't believe that there's not more information on all these subtleties to wrist spinning. The potential for variations is seemingly vast the only issue is how much life have you got to experiment with them all! I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the subject as there isn't such a thing other than Philpotts. Today at work I was talking to one of the Publishing course lecturers and she was showing me the students 'Final Major Project' work. They have to write and make a book and they get a book company to make them a short runs of books. So a 50 page book you can have about 10 copies made for 25 quid. I asked her if you were to do this, would the book then be a good vehicle with which to approach publishing companies with a view to printing the book on a commercial scale and she said yes. She used to be a big name in the group Random House and she said that she'd help me write it and get it together. So that's something to think about?

My wife is a published and translated author and she said the thread could make a book and she hasn't even seen it. But I said we haven't got a name to sell a book but you never know we might end up with a foreward from Ashley Mallett.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just had a look at the BBC version of the Jenner video where he bowls indoors and noticed something he says and does relating to the Flipper. His delivery is a loopier version of the ball well above the batsmans eye level and he goes on to say that you pitch it shorter than any of the other balls. This is something I've been working on, but I reckon you could only get away with it once or twice with any batsman.

Many times I suspected that he got that wrong. In tennis when I used to hit with backspin I prayed it would not go beyond the baseline. It definitely travels further than side or topspin, and obviously bounces less. Many of the flippers by warne I thought were quite full and not short, though I may be mistaken.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good luck. Will it be the sunday seconds?

Yeah I think so, but the team sounds like it's loaded with 1st team batsmen as well. As far as I know the oppo is going to be announced tonight and whether it's at home or away, it'll be interesting with all those spinners, by the sounds of it we're opening with Leg Spinners and then the change will be Leg Spinners! Maybe if there's a lefty in there they'll have Wayne our Off-spinner in earlier?

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I dont think he wrote one manual, but there is lots to learn from his articles. His method is put down on paper by Benaud who says he based his simple instuctions on O'Reiilys advise to him. Even one of the last pieces he wrote on Warne is fascinating, O'Rielly is full of field placing suggestions in his articles plus lots of other sage observations from a wise old legspinner.

Yes, I read a couple of his articles. He seemed a very intelligent and humorous person. His article when Grimmett died, that is present on cricinfo shows what a great esteem he had for Grum. But lets face it we still identify more with unathletic looking grimmett, and whatever the don says, we feel that grimmett was better.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I think so, but the team sounds like it's loaded with 1st team batsmen as well. As far as I know the oppo is going to be announced tonight and whether it's at home or away, it'll be interesting with all those spinners, by the sounds of it we're opening with Leg Spinners and then the change will be Leg Spinners! Maybe if there's a lefty in there they'll have Wayne our Off-spinner in earlier?

Sounds like your attack will have loads of variation. Many legspinners but all so different. Tell your w/keeper to get ready for the stumpings from the word go as their plan will be to put you off your line early.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There is not a shed load. But to be fair on him he quotes the 2 greatest books, those by grimmett and philpott, so he did his research well. I think jenner keeps added information for the clinics he undertakes. If he publishes a manual what will he have left to say in his clinics. On you tube there is an old clip of warne coaching/teaching the legbreak, so he must have done a video early in his carreer. I get the impression that there must be a conspiracy wherby leg spinners have an oath of not exposing too much knowledge, a sort of freemasonary. Everything is unwritten and transcended by word of mouth only. What do you think?

It was more like a tradesman guild, and secrets were kept and handed down. Grimmetts trade as a signwriter operated the same way. Trade secrets were important and possible in the old days, but not anymore.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

My wife is a published and translated author and she said the thread could make a book and she hasn't even seen it. But I said we haven't got a name to sell a book but you never know we might end up with a foreward from Ashley Mallett.

Yeah that'd be interesting and no doubt useful as a vehicle to get it noticed. One of the criticisms you could aim at Philpotts book is that it's limited in it's images and the way that they have the potential to help explain some of the theories and techniques. I was thinking tonight walking home from work that it wouldn't be that difficult to produce images that show in stages the ball being released from the hand with most of these varitaions that we speak about showing the direction of the spin and the seams position.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Do you get the impression that when jenner throws the ball from hand to hand across the body he does not seem to put too many revs on the ball. Even wrne in the IPL last week while waiting to bowl seemed to throw the ball from hand to hand rather than really tweak/rip it. In the pictures on the philpott book tou can see the seam as being very fuzzy, as though he is really ripping it. That is the impression I get from the jenner videos on bbc amd masterclass. He seems to spin it more for the flipper(though not as much as dave on you tube)

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I think so, but the team sounds like it's loaded with 1st team batsmen as well. As far as I know the oppo is going to be announced tonight and whether it's at home or away, it'll be interesting with all those spinners, by the sounds of it we're opening with Leg Spinners and then the change will be Leg Spinners! Maybe if there's a lefty in there they'll have Wayne our Off-spinner in earlier?

Make sure you grab bowling into the breeze if you can.

 

[macca]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Many times I suspected that he got that wrong. In tennis when I used to hit with backspin I prayed it would not go beyond the baseline. It definitely travels further than side or topspin, and obviously bounces less. Many of the flippers by warne I thought were quite full and not short, though I may be mistaken.

Jenner never bowled a flipper in his playing days ,and I heard he was shown how by Rod Marsh at the cricket academy in Adelaide in the early 90,s.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I will do, I don't think there'll be a fight for that end as I'll probably bowl with my mate 'The Wizard' and I'm fairly certain as I recall he likes the wind behind him, I'm not sure that he realises the benefits of bowling into the wind and I don't think he has a Top-Spinner or the level of control over his Leg Break to vary it to introduce the Top Spin and make it dip. So I should be okay.

 

[sadspinner]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It was more like a tradesman guild, and secrets were kept and handed down. Grimmetts trade as a signwriter operated the same way. Trade secrets were important and possible in the old days, but not anymore.

That is true but as dave says, with internet and all, we still can only see the small leg break being shown and not a word on how to bowl the big one. And not even a sniff on the mystery ball you unearthed.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'm doing some work on the Leg Break section of my Wrist Spin blog. I've had some success with the Proper Leg Break tonight and I'm anticipating being able to write about it with some knowledge in the near future and thought I need to write an introductory section for beginners. Have a look. I'm wondering if it's too much like Philpotts?

If you're new to bowling the Leg Break and you're not having a great deal of luck with it here's a few suggestions that may help you get on your way with it.
One of the main things that you need to come to terms with is the fact that all wrist spin bowlers bowl their leg breaks in different ways meaning that their grips are similar but at the same time varied. The basic grip is the 2 fingers up crossing the seam with the finger tips on the seam and more importantly the 3rd (Ring finger) placed on the seam. How much involvement your thumb has in the grip is something that you'll discover in time, but initially it's involvement in most peoples cases is minimal. How hard you grip the ball again is a personal thing, but you're probably best to grip it so that it feels secure in the hand but fairly relaxed. Some people grip it really hard and others like myself grip it very loosely. Again all these variations will change as you learn how to bowl and spin the ball.
Now you've got to learn to spin the ball. Holding you hands out in front of yourself with the ball in your right hand with your grip with the palm facing up throw the ball from the right hand to the left by turning the wrist over the top of the ball and spinning the ball as you do so using the 3rd finger. See youtube clip ******* Now do this all the time whenever you can, use tennis balls, cricket balls, apples, oranges, cubes - anything just as long as you're using your wrist and this action to impart spin on the object. Do this night and day every day and everywhere you can so that the action becomes embedded as a remembered reflex.
Once you're getting the hang of it and can do it with a degree of control let the ball drop to the floor and observe what happens. As you stand and face forwards the dropped ball with it's over-spin should now bounce off to your left quite acutely depending on how much spin you're putting on it. This is a the basis of a Leg Break ball.

 

[someblokecalleddave]

Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah there does seem to be a reluctance to impart information. But it might just be a reluctance to put pen to paper. I think too that when people do speak out about this as a subject if you've not got the same gravitas/experience as an international player people readily conclude that you are talking out of your ****. I have to go back to the point that I made yesterday that I've never met another spinner who will say to you that he has several variations or has even considered looking at the potential of other variations. Books that cover the subject of cricket in a generic manner only touch on the subject and as we're all well aware the only book out there is Philpotts.

Then consider Philpotts book and it's accessibilty, I think over this thread people have said 'Oh I know that book, but I couldn't be bothered to read it'. It is of a time and it's appeal to kids who are obviously the key to the survival of wrist spin is limited I reckon?

I noted on my blog tonight that Jenner had updated his blog Terry Jenner - "The Spin Doctor" and on there he writes about the current state that wrist spin is in and alludes to the potential of another period like the 1980's. It does seem as though this particular speciality in cricket is so obscure and so shrouded in mystery that it may be to the detriment of the art?