Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I just had a quick look at Jenner and Beau Casson in their on-line vids and they both appear to release the ball whilst pivoting on one leg?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;356513 said:
So for the big legbreak your hand just comes up from behind the right hip rather than to side of it? I may give this a go.

Also to clarify my bowling action it isn't a big drawing back of the bowling arm, it is only slightly to the side of the right hip, if you draw it back alot you can end up bowling short theortically.

How much to the left do you draw back your bowling arm? Maybe if i want to bowl flatter i can draw it back more to the left for it to gain more momentum and more speed?
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I am not very good at explaining the mechanics, but my right hand just gets fractionally to the left of the right hip if that makes sense. For the big leg break just to the side of my hip than in a round arm fashion try to imitate what i do under arm ie i try to flick the ball towards me while projecting it forward. For the smaller leg break I think my arm is a bit more vertical though. The googly I find best with the Iverson grip, but am not very good at it and only practice it say every 60-70 balls. Sounds complicated but mainly I do it for fun, and for the sake of experimentation. When I had filmed myself, I was disappointed at being so unorthodox, but after seeing the video clips with grimmett, I took some heart. Now re-seeing Warne and MacGill I notice they are between round arm and vertical. Goes to show that everyone has his style and tinkering too much with what is natural may be harmful.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim, never overdo it. I find that if I have a good session the next one is usually much poorer. It is as though the body/neuromotor system needs a period of time to assimilate and recalibrate. Also taxing muscles/tendons/ligaments/capsules/joints/muscles etc that you rarely use may put you at risk of injury, so as someone said short frequent bursts with rest in between leaves your body hungry for more, while reducing the risk of injury. I know it from bitter experience as I have chronic jnee pain for 1 year which I cannot shake off.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I'll have to look at some Warne, although sitting here in front of me is Peter Philpotts 'The Art of wrist spin bowling' and the front page has warne with the ball just about to leave his hand and his toes look as though they're just about to leave the ground. http://www.booktopia.com.au/covers/9781861260635.jpg it's not that clear in this image as it so small. but I'll look elsewhere and see what I come up with.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

There's a few images here that are inconclusive, but the last one is the same as the front page of the Peter Philpott book. You can clearly see that the ball is about to come out of the hand and you can see that his foot is in motion to leave the ground at about the same instance and rotate round the pivot leg, which if you look at the other images he does quite dramatically.

Shane Warne turns his arm over during the Hong Kong Cricket Sixes | Photo | Global | Cricinfo.com
Shane Warne bowls on day three of his final MCG Test | Photo | Ashes | Cricinfo.com
Terry Jenner watches Shane Warne bowl in the nets | Photo | Ashes | Cricinfo.com

So looking at this evidence and the point you're making is that I release the ball too late? Therefore I might improve if the release was earlier? I've filmed myself bowling this Sunday just gone I might have a look at that and see if it's any different.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356502 said:
Yeah hang in there mate and look after your shoulder, ease into this if you are going to practice intensively. Give yourself a couple of days off and go back to it and if you're bowling every day try not to do too many mammoth sessions maybe do 45 minutes at a time and two or three times a day once you've got the muscles. If your shoulder is sore I'd rest it if I was you. If you damage your rotator cuff muscles it'll take an operation to fix it if it's bad - you should check it out on the internet and see the potential for permanent damage.
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my shoulder doesnt feel too bad, i could bowl another 400 balls with just my shoulder aching (not that im going to). i feel more strain in my back, sort of down the back of my right side from armpit to the bottom of my ribs. its not a pain, ive definitely not even come close to muscle damage. its just a typical ache where ive used a new muscle. im pretty out of shape physically which i do need to work on. points heeded on taking it easy though. it doesnt so much hinder my deliveries through pain, as it does through just physically not being able to move in the same way. my body just wont let me. and its not helpful at all to bowl an hour of poor deliveries so i just wont bother in future. best to spend 3 days excited about the next session than give in after a day and then come home feeling less than ecstatic about what just happened lol

sadspinner;356518 said:
I know it from bitter experience as I have chronic jnee pain for 1 year which I cannot shake off.
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ive got pretty bad knees as well. i played basketball for a while and its brutal on the knees. im pretty sure thats somewhere that ive done permanent damage, il probably pay for it in 20 years time. i figure by then they should have bionics pretty much mastered by then, i can just have some robotic replacements :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;355663 said:
There's a few images here that are inconclusive, but the last one is the same as the front page of the Peter Philpott book. You can clearly see that the ball is about to come out of the hand and you can see that his foot is in motion to leave the ground at about the same instance and rotate round the pivot leg, which if you look at the other images he does quite dramatically.

Shane Warne turns his arm over during the Hong Kong Cricket Sixes | Photo | Global | Cricinfo.com
Shane Warne bowls on day three of his final MCG Test | Photo | Ashes | Cricinfo.com
Terry Jenner watches Shane Warne bowl in the nets | Photo | Ashes | Cricinfo.com

So looking at this evidence and the point you're making is that I release the ball too late? Therefore I might improve if the release was earlier? I've filmed myself bowling this Sunday just gone I might have a look at that and see if it's any different.
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lol yes thats what i ment when his foot is just about to come up as he's releasing
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Jim2109;356520 said:
my shoulder doesnt feel too bad, i could bowl another 400 balls with just my shoulder aching (not that im going to). i feel more strain in my back, sort of down the back of my right side from armpit to the bottom of my ribs. its not a pain, ive definitely not even come close to muscle damage. its just a typical ache where ive used a new muscle. im pretty out of shape physically which i do need to work on. points heeded on taking it easy though. it doesnt so much hinder my deliveries through pain, as it does through just physically not being able to move in the same way. my body just wont let me. and its not helpful at all to bowl an hour of poor deliveries so i just wont bother in future. best to spend 3 days excited about the next session than give in after a day and then come home feeling less than ecstatic about what just happened lol



ive got pretty bad knees as well. i played basketball for a while and its brutal on the knees. im pretty sure thats somewhere that ive done permanent damage, il probably pay for it in 20 years time. i figure by then they should have bionics pretty much mastered by then, i can just have some robotic replacements :D
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Mate - I wouldn't count on Bionics as being the solution not in the current forseeable economic climate.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've just looked at the video shot on Sunday and it's pretty much the same as Warnes, the ball comes out of the hand just as the toes leave the ground. I was going to upload the video but I got the angle and the cropping slightly wrong and the hand is out the top of the frame, but you can see from the shadow when the ball leaves the hand. I'll try and shoot another sequence soon and try and get the angles and cropping right. The thing is when I bowl on camera I find that I'm too self concious and don't bowl as well, but I'll do anyway and just see how I get on.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;356524 said:
Mate - I wouldn't count on Bionics as being the solution not in the current forseeable economic climate.
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not a lot else i can do about it now! the knee damage is done. i can however look after my shoulder and back
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've now just looked at the youtube clip and that is completely different and you're right the release is massively late in comparison to what I was doing on Sunday. But that may be down to the reason I did the earlier clip in the street surrounded by cars and stuff and bowled it probably really slow without any conviction?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Leg spin is all about relaxation and rhythm, 90% is in the head.

I'd recommend lying down, listening to music with a good beat, if things go wrong in the nets. When things go bad you tense and they get worse until the dam ball sticks in your fingers and squirts out to mid wicket.

In a game, do the same as I do in golf, before every ball big breath and relax/drop shoulders on exhale.

These routines also work for swing bowling, although I only ever was decent at legspin.

ps. Always have a man on the square leg boundary ;)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good advice there from Frodo with regards fielding positions. I'm not at a point yet where I'm confident enough to set my field and I my captain does it for me but two or three times he's put a bloke there and it's resulted in a wicket. Funnily enough a couple of times it seems to have been down to a full toss slightly to leg-side in my first over and the balls been heaved out to either there Sq Leg Boundary or back of square leg in the more conventional position.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;355668 said:
Leggie Law do you get drift when you bowl and can you decide when you want to use drift or not use it?
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it depends on the conditions aswell, sometimes no matter how hard i rip it, there just wont be much drift whilst other times it goes around batsmens legs, i just try to pitch the ball on off/middle stump and if it drifts to leg stump it should square up the batsmen spinning back towards slips or bowl him round his legs.
if your bowlings quite loopy and slow then drift will be harder to get rather than ripping the ball out at high speed.

what i do is bowl a few leg breaks at the start of my spell if its drifting big then i try to pitch it off stump or just wide and it normal drifts to a dangerous line if its not drifting just vary other things (angle of approach etc..)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Just drop it short on leg or middle and leg, then watch it sail over deep square legs head :cool:

The guy that inspired me was Abdul Qadir. Wonderful loop and well disguised googly.
Warney was incredible though. I think hisstrength was picturing every ball before he bowled it, and he expected every one to take a wicket.

Field positions are really dictated by the batsman. If he covers everything outside leg with his pads you end up with a strong offside field.

One nice trick to look out for is a batsman taking a bad guard, say middle and off, or leaning towards the onside. A full ball fast down legside will get the odd bowled round legs. Even a ball or two round the wicket can rattle unless they change guard.

Ahh.those were the days.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

on the subject of drift...

i was up at the nets yesterday afternoon, it had been raining all day and the pitch was very wet. it was still raining occasionally whilst we were up there practicing. wind was blowing initially but it died down.

so i was bowling leg breaks, there was zero grip on the surface and the ball wasnt turning at all and skidding straight on. you could spin the ball on the spot, and normally it would grip the ground and shoot away. instead it was hitting the ground and bouncing straight up, still spinning lol

anyway, to the point. my leg breaks were spinning IN to a right hander!! my brother was saying that the ball was spinning all over the place, i replied "no its not, its just going straight", and he said it was coming back in at him by quite a lot, which is obviously the opposite of what im aiming for lol.

so i examined my action, it was all fine, i wasnt bowling googlies by accident. i couldnt figure it out. so i just tried to bowl consistently the same ball, and we worked out that it was moving in flight such that as it hit the pitch it was angled and was then skidding straight at this new angle (hence going in towards the bastman as opposed to away like i wanted it to). so i started varying the spin, and the more i generated, the more it came back in. the only explanation being that the ball was generating lots of drift!

ive got no idea on the specifics of it, i understand the physics behind it but not the application of it in actual bowling. but it seems that if there is lots of moisture in the air all you require to generate drift is lots of sideways revs on the ball. it would make sense that more overspin would then also generate dip. so a ball with side and overspin would drift and dip. which kind of makes sense really. id imagine that it comes down a lot to weather conditions in much the same way as swing bowling. if the ball isnt doing anything and the conditions arent right then i dont know that you could artificially generate drift. shane warne was obviously so good at it because of the amount of spin he could put on the ball!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Don't you bowl any more Frodo? Sounds like good advice though, I might post that up on my Leg Spin blog. This is all good stuff for me as this is the part I'm learning now - how to recognise weaknesses and adapt your bowling to the batsman. What do you do with Left handed batsmen that are strong off the legs?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I read the Philpott book again today - the section on drift and it sounds as though because I bowl generally slow and loopy as Leggie Law says it's not going to be travelling fast enough to get drift. At the minute I've got an injured elbow so I'm not practicing as frequently and as hard that I normally would - but if the arm feels okay some time this week I'll try and get out at some point and bowl a bit faster and see if I can spot any drift.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hope your seasons are going well. I am having a slightly strange problem with my bowling and am hoping you guys can help.

My natural action is to bound in and really launch of the back leg and bowl quickish leg breaks and when it works, it works well with exploding leg breaks. However, what always happens is that after an over or two, I start getting no balled due to my back foot cutting the side crease on my second to last step. Its baffling to me as I had no idea I was doing it and could not see why I would.

To get round the problem I slowed down my run up, lessened the launch off the back leg and got more side on - and it fixed the problem. I am now bowling much slower leg breaks and although, I am taking wickets its not as satisfying for me as I know I am holding back - batsmen are actually playing my full deliveries of the back foot which they would never have done previously. On the otherside though I am getting alot more wickets through flight and stumpings then with my natural run up.
I am planning to return to my old bounding approach this Saturday and would like some suggestions to fix this strange backfoot problem. I did have a tendency off not getting properly side on when bowling this way - could this be the reason why my back foot went too wide? Have any of you had this problem?
Thanks
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i made some great progress today! the surface in the nets had dried back out from the sun, and finally im getting my leg breaks to turn on concrete, some of them are turning BIG! my line and length is still poor, but improving all the time. ive done a load of work on my follow through, and my body is rotating a lot more powerfully now and im generating much more rip on the ball. leg breaks are turning anything from 6" upto about 4 feet. my big leg break (90 degree seam, even backwards of 90 degrees) is gripping! which it never was before. if i could control the pitch of the ball better then it wouldnt be out of the question for me to bowl someone behind their legs i think!! as it is i cant land the ball within 2 feet of my target on a consistent basis, let alone on a penny as id need to for a "ball of the century" delivery lol.

im massively pleased at the progress. ive also found, by accident when i released a ball badly out of the hand, that i can generate just as much turn with a gentle finger/wrist action (e.g. less revs on the ball from the hand) and a more precise action and follow through, than i can when i absolutely rip the ball out of the hand but get the body action wrong. this is making practice much easier as i can focus less on generating spin with my hand, adopt a nice relaxed grip (Shane Warne always says this is key anyway, as a relaxed grip means a more flowing action), and then focus more on my overall action. but at the same time the ball is still spinning lots off the pitch so i am able to play around with line and length whilst still seeing what the spin does.

another week or 2 of practice and progress like this and il have to try and get myself video'd so i can get some more suggestions and pointers i think :D
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Good work, I think that recognising that getting the fingers and wrist working correctly without having to put a massive amount of energy into ripping the ball is a maor break through. If you get the whole thing together correctly and the whole action is smooth it's kind of like a whip, there's the whole smooth thing taking a little bit of energy that goes through the body but then with correct technique like a whip it rips out of the fingers and wrist at the very end? If you can get that affect it's just practice with your line and length and it'll all come together nicely. You'll know when you're getting it right because you'll feel and hear it snapping off your fingers as the balls released.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;355933 said:
Good work, I think that recognising that getting the fingers and wrist working correctly without having to put a massive amount of energy into ripping the ball is a maor break through. If you get the whole thing together correctly and the whole action is smooth it's kind of like a whip, there's the whole smooth thing taking a little bit of energy that goes through the body but then with correct technique like a whip it rips out of the fingers and wrist at the very end? If you can get that affect it's just practice with your line and length and it'll all come together nicely. You'll know when you're getting it right because you'll feel and hear it snapping off your fingers as the balls released.
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not hearing or feeling the snapping yet. but i could hear the ball rotating through the air. i figured that was a pretty good sign!! kind of like a whoosh-whoosh-whoosh sound. and without wanting to come across as arrogant im finding i can present the seam almost perfectly every ball. aside from the ones that come out totally wrong and double bounce or go 6 feet wide, pretty much every other delivery the seam is exactly where i want it to be, and dead upright. no wobble or scramble.

i need to get the line and length next. thats the focus of all my attention now i think. also i need to increase the pace on the ball. i know i shouldnt be paying attention to what a batsman can do against my deliveries at this point, but when a very weak batsman with no shot variation is able to slog your absolute best deliveries, there is still a lot of work to do! i managed to completely beat my brother with a few today though, he had no idea where the ball had gone. his main criticism is that there is so little pace on the ball that he can just watch it bounce most balls and still have enough time to choose a slog shot. a good batsman would tear it apart. on the other hand he is playing in the nets with zero pressure and all he can do is hit big. so i guess that style of batting would rarely ever arise in a match situation, and if it does its to my advantage once i can choose my line and length!!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

See I can't do that at all - get the ball to audibly fizz. I often wonder whether the amount of spin I put on the ball is minimal (Although it does turn well)? It maybe an age thing I just can flick the ball enough to get it to fizz like that.

Jim - I would try and bowl on your own a lot more without a batsman. You've got to realise that they don't act like batsmen in the nets because they can always get another go and another etc. Whereas if they're in the game for real and know that every time you throw a ball at em there's the chance that you're going to be sending em back to the sheds and they are usually crapping their pants when they realise you're a Wrist Spinner. Although they're going to be giving it the biggun "Oh yeah I'll come down the track and I'll hit it on the bounce to spinners - I love playing spinners" etc. They all say that it's a part of the psychology of the game. Maybe make it more real with your brother make it so that if you bowl him he has to give you a quid or a fiver so that he then has to play with more intensity - you'll soon see a difference if he suddenly has to lose something that's equivalent to his wicket. Grimmett would always bowl on his own, he would never let a batsman have the chance to learn his game and work him out.

With regards the 'Good batsman will tear you apart' that's nonesense that's just him being a batsman. By the sounds of it if you get your line and length sussed you're going to be a good bowler if you're spinning it as much as you say. Mate I bowl slow - real slow, but at the minute I'm the statistically the best bowler in my team - and it's just because of the line and length and the fact that I bowl the ball and turn it both ways and have a top-spinner and a back-spinner, but most of the wickets are from my bog standard but accurate Leg Break so tell your batsman brother to shut up and get back to the sheds!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Thanks Dave I will take a look later on cant watch youtube at work.
By the "bound" think of Shane Warne's leap from the back foot onto his front foot. I based my action on his - not very original I know ;-)
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Hey boys.

I went to the nets the other day, and was bowling this weird ball. As I bowled, my wrist would deliver the ball from the reverse of putting your hand out to gesture 'stop', so the back of my hand faced the batsman.

I would have all four fingers along the seam, with the seam being sideways. As I delivered the ball, I would flick my wrist towards the batsman from the position described above, and would run all of my fingers heavily down the ball. This created heaps of spin going straight, but towards the batsman.

I have a feeling that it may have been a slider or zooter, but it could just be a weird ball.

If you get my description, maybe you guys could try it out and see what you think?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah it's a good model to copy, my 'Bound' into the rotation is a bit odd - you'll see in the clip, but it works for me. Loads of people say if your technique is unorthodox think Grimmett, Paul Adams for instance it doesn't mean that you have to change it. But I can't visualise what it is that you're doing, although my mate was pulled up by an umpire a few weeks ago because his leg that swings up and around the pivoting leg was going so wide that it was going outside the 'Return crease' File:Cricketpitchmswd.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Do you mean that as your arm comes over you rotate your wrist clockwise so it comes out of the fingers with a flick but just as you do the flick you would see the back of the hand? So it looks a bit like a Doosra?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Looking at the diagram you attached it appears that my right foot is somehow going wide of the bowling crease. Apparantly its fine if your front foot does it (North the Aussie part time spinner was doing this during the 1st Ashes test match) but its a no ball if your back foot goes cuts the side line. I think when I have been noballed my left shoulder may have been facing towards slip as opposed to side on or chest on. Thinking about it my back foot is probably going to the right somehow and then I am launching onto my left foot.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

breeno;356017 said:
Hey boys.

I went to the nets the other day, and was bowling this weird ball. As I bowled, my wrist would deliver the ball from the reverse of putting your hand out to gesture 'stop', so the back of my hand faced the batsman.

I would have all four fingers along the seam, with the seam being sideways. As I delivered the ball, I would flick my wrist towards the batsman from the position described above, and would run all of my fingers heavily down the ball. This created heaps of spin going straight, but towards the batsman.

I have a feeling that it may have been a slider or zooter, but it could just be a weird ball.

If you get my description, maybe you guys could try it out and see what you think?
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sounds like a variation of a offies top spinner if u turned ur wrist abit more you would have the doosra. it should hit the pitch and straighten a handy variation for a off spinner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I haven't got a clue what you mean, I'll have to knock up a diagram upload it to my blog and you'll have to tell me where your feet are. I'll do it later as I'm out for another practice now.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Na boys it's the other way. When I bowl it, my wrist goes anti clockwise so my palm faces the batsman, my little finger is closer to my head, with my thumb being on the other side.

So, try and think of the opposite to what you were thinking.:p
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Frodo27;356579 said:
Leg spin is all about relaxation and rhythm, 90% is in the head.

I'd recommend lying down, listening to music with a good beat, if things go wrong in the nets. When things go bad you tense and they get worse until the dam ball sticks in your fingers and squirts out to mid wicket.

In a game, do the same as I do in golf, before every ball big breath and relax/drop shoulders on exhale.

These routines also work for swing bowling, although I only ever was decent at legspin.

ps. Always have a man on the square leg boundary ;)
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the relaxation think is 100% the problem i was having. i was even walking to collect the balls i had just bowled talking to myself telling myself to relax and loosen up, trying to relax all my muscles. it wasnt working though, and when it did i still had this weird wrist flick. almost like my wrist was TOO relaxed. i think its more likely that my fingers and my arm werent relaxed enough. i was dragging deliveries down which was the biggest indicator to me that i wasnt relaxed, and i wasnt generating as many revs as i was previously.

as well as figuring out some strengthening exercises for the relevant muscles, and also good warm up exercises, i think i need to learn some relaxation methods as well. il be sat on the boundary rope looking like buddha meditating between deliveries when im not bowling haha

as for field placings, square leg boudary is one ive always thought of as a natural position for my bowling. ive actually already been thinking about field placings, for some strange reason. id always want 2 slips, a gulley and a leg slip for close fielders. leg slip wouldnt be required if i was consistent, but lots of my deliveries end up going that way and it would give me peace of mind, plus a batsman might try hitting one into the leg side and edge it. id want nobody at all in the mid-off region just because the drive is about the best chance we as leg spinners have of taking wickets! it cant be encouraged enough IMO!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It's almost like I'm bowling a wrongun, yet my grip on the ball is different, and I drag my fingers down.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

On an another thread they are paying out on stuie macgill and moe mathews on the sbs tv commentary team for the ashes.

But for the spin bowlers out there they have been giving one long masterclass on spinbowling all through the test match. Greg Mathews is using a ball to demonstrate the different deliveries and is dispensing great lessons in the art of spinbowling.

Macgill is displaying his intellectual approach to bowling and when the pair of them analysed the spinners in the match they really did it better than anyone else could i reckon.

I always turn the sound off when watching the cricket but i will turn it up when macgill and mathews come on to talk

but really none of the others are worth listening to except maybe Mike Atherton who brings up lots of interesting stuff and of course he was a back of the hand merchant so we would expect that.
 
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