Wrist Spin Bowling

Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Contributors
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348678 said:
I'm out of here - it's been a busy night tonight on here, I've quite enjoyed the conversations. See you later.

Generally in the games I play there's two Right arm leggies and Neil. This game Sunday with 4 of us is the first time ever there's been four.
Click to expand...

More work for me tomorrow , so I am out of here. Very enlightening as usual here.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

If you look at Grimmetts arm in plate 14 he has developed what looks like to me strong muscles and ligaments in his forearms and wrists. Maybe building it up over 12 years developed this. Maybe it was pain like daves that made Pepper; Dooland etc bowl the "easier" backspinner?

There is one shot of him playing golf with Bradman and though both were short , Grimmett looked more wiry and muscular than Bradman in the wrists and forearms. Imagine when they were still friends and played tennis, Bradman beat most of the Wimbledon champions of the thirties at tennis! and would have won Wimbledon if he had stuck to tennis, and Grimmett was the master of spinning a tennis ball with a racket as well as the cricket ball! We are talking of two of the greatest ball players of all time.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;348673 said:
Yes that would be very interesting. In IPL I also saw Mishra(an indian leggie) and warne perform what i think is the backward flick/backspinning legbreak/hand to chest. It is very different to what i thought it would look like. You have to see it to understan as it is difficult to put in words. But there they really spin it. Much more than in the hand to hand.
Click to expand...
I have had a similar experience: I get more revs in the full action than from tossing hand-to-hand.

It is a while since I've seen a good leg-spinner bowl; but from my experience the big difference in the hand-to-chest is the wrist position. The wrist is turned so that the full face of the palm is facing the bowler.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

sadspinner;348877 said:
What I am surprised at though as you say, is the fact that your countries top legspinners would have never analysed, read and reread , studied and practiced what grimmett says. He got all this through hours of experimentation and observation. But if he did not perfect it over all those years, I doubt how many will manage. On the other hand Warne would tell you he 'only' had is legbreak and flipper and non spinning leg break/zooter/slider and took bucket loads.......But the bottom line is as you say is the fact that they never seem to have read these books. It is comparing this to becoming a doctor without ever having seen a patient (the most classic of textbooks).
Click to expand...

It does not surprise me really, even though when I was a kid every library had coaching manuals by the great players, it was not the Australian way to learn cricket from books, the cricket culture was so strong 40 years ago nearly every kid aquired good technique more by osmosis or direct instruction, so books were not really necessary and seemed like schoolwork to a lot of youngsters.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

It's opposite to me, when i flick it hand to hand i impart alot of revs that my finger hurts, same can't be said when i bowl it with the full action. Maybe you have to get everything in your action perfect to impart maximum spin,

I have a question about the pivot, should your pivot finish with your front foot pointing at square leg, In my action my front toe points at legslip ( or should it be straighter?) then i focus on pivoting till my front foot finish a near 90 degree turn.

Also i've been told to add more flow to my action as currently i stop in the delivery stride and slowly transfer the weight from backleg to front leg, this reduced momentum but i don't know how to go about altering the delivery stride to give me more power through the crease, any ideas?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I've got scrawny arms in comparison. I've just sat here clicking my fingers to see if that creates any sense of discomfort and it doesn't, But what does though is the pressing of the middle and third fingers with a straight arm and wrist as in my new Leg Break! So maybe this current pain hasn't been caused by the Grimmett mystery ball after all?

Macca when either you or your son (or anyone else) bowl your leg breaks especially anything that's incorporating the flick of the wrist does the flick and the whip off the 3rd finger make a click/snap sound similar to the flipper click?

I've also come across an intermediate way of getting the ball to spin which is really affective. With the Googly syndrome if I've tried to bowl the ball with the cocked wrist it's still always ended up being a wrong un. But your recent description of the 'Traffic cops hand' has been the catalyst to a big step forward for me. Somewhere along the way for whatever reason I tried bowling my leg break starting with the cocked wrist but then just as you reach the point when you release the ball unfurl the wrist to assume the 'Traffic Cop position' at the point of the release and this at the minute is working a treat producing a lovely Leg Break better than I've ever had. Even when done ridiculously slow over a few yards you can see that the ball leaves the hand spinning at right angles to the direction of flight. I can only assume that the unfurling is akin to a slow or medium flick of the wrist? Whatever it is - it's working for me so cheers for that 'Traffic Cop' analogy!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Ripping-LegBreak;348731 said:
I have a question about the pivot, should your pivot finish with your front foot pointing at square leg, In my action my front toe points at legslip ( or should it be straighter?) then i focus on pivoting till my front foot finish a near 90 degree turn.
Click to expand...
Hmm, I'm a bit unsure as to exactly what you mean. I can't see how you would possibly have your front-foot pointing towards square leg after you complete the pivot, as the foot rotates somewhat with the body.

I'm not exactly sure about where feet should be pointing just before the pivot, as I learnt the pivot by making sure my front foot landed to the right of my back-foot. But I doubt you would want the front-foot to be any straighter than leg-slip before the pivot; I can see any way of maintaining good balance while having your front-foot land to the right of your back-foot if it goes much straighter.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah dave i'll try and give the ball a go next time I have a practice, probablly in the next couple of days weather dependant.

I get a fair clicking when I bowl the leg break its louder the more you give the ball a rip generally
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

oh right, so your front foot is perfectly straight but it's to the right? That clears things up, my foot is at an angle pointing to legslip, i think this was the cause of inaccuracy in my bowling as my foot was one way and my hips and shoulders were straight.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The reading of books as I said yesterday is alien to most youngsters, more so even today than it was years ago. The internet is the way forward. Our thread here gets a lot of hits and it may encourage people to read further? But I'm not surprised that Grimmetts book is so obscure. Are you still having trouble getting a copy of Philpotts book?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The foot that comes over and round the pivoting foot should land and point in the direction that you're directing the ball ideally, that's what my coach was getting me to do as I was going too far around the pivoting foot and ending up with that foot pointing towards point/cover.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;348905 said:
yeah dave i'll try and give the ball a go next time I have a practice, probablly in the next couple of days weather dependant.

I get a fair clicking when I bowl the leg break its louder the more you give the ball a rip generally
Click to expand...

Ah - it sounds as though I'm finally getting this right, all I need now is to get the line and length sorted. Gundalf have a look at the post that's back a bit regarding the cocked wrist to the straight hand position - what do reckon to that theory/technique?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

the cocked wrist really seems to add that bit more rip if your bowling a bit more round arm as it adds that little bit more to the flick than the straight hand position as coming completely over the top is easier.

As for the hand to hand thing its hard to tell as pivoting while releasing the ball does add extra spin, so it may not look the same.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I think I've made a massive break through with this description that EOW and Macca came up with a couple of weeks ago (Traffic Cop). That and being able to get the Leg Break with the big flick down the track 22 yards. With both of these deliveries all I've got to do is tighten up the line and length and I reckon I'm there. Give it a month or so and I reckon I may have cracked it and hopefully this'll be reflected in my wicket taking and stats? But more importantly my general confidence I will at last be a Leg Spinner maybe?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Yeah I don't know what's going on there, the 2nd's a funny mix of players as well. In the 1st team there's a lot of the names I don't recognise as they're only posted as their surnames and I know most of them by their Christian names. I'll just have to see how it goes. I'd assume because of the 5 man spin attack 4 leggies and 1 offie it might be a team that doesn't play spin that well - but that's not true because the Oppo wasn't decided till Friday night and I was told I was in on Tuesday as I recall.

Remember yesterday I mentioned there were some unsavoury comments relating to my Flipper video, I've just been looking into how to disenable the comments and it looks as though it's not possible so I may have to delete them all and upload again with the comments option not ticked from the outset. Anyway looking around my youtube account I came across the details of one of the blokes that had made one of the adverse comments and it kind of makes sense now. Have a look - http://www.youtube.com/user/woodamler but the surprising thing is that it's not a 17 year old but a bloke who's almost 40!

Apologies to any 17 year olds - that comment was a bit disparaging.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348899 said:
On another earlier subject with EOW here's my footfall positions through my rotation roatation+2.jpg (image) for an explanation have a look at my blog Wrist Spin Bowling but I think you were on about something else - maybe the foot at the initial position 'A'?
Click to expand...

Nope, that's exactly what I was talking about. Your front-land lands in line with your back-foot, it should be landing to the right of it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348756 said:
The foot that comes over and round the pivoting foot should land and point in the direction that you're directing the ball ideally, that's what my coach was getting me to do as I was going too far around the pivoting foot and ending up with that foot pointing towards point/cover.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have a fast bowler coaching spin there. Your front-foot should land on the right-side of your back foot(assuming a right hander leg-spinner), there is absolutely no way that you could maintain balance doing that and have your foot pointing where your want to bowl before the pivot. It has to point to the leg-side significantly, even if you are aiming to bowl outside off-stump.

If you were pivoting too far, I daresay that before the pivot the front-foot was pointing too straight. You were probably trying to do a full pivot; but because your front-foot was pointing too straight there was less distance to cover, so you ended up pivoting too far.

Look at where the front foot of Warne points before he pivots: YouTube - A tribute to Shane Warne


Pause it at 15 seconds to see what I mean.

Ripping-LegBreak said:
oh right, so your front foot is perfectly straight but it's to the right? That clears things up, my foot is at an angle pointing to legslip, i think this was the cause of inaccuracy in my bowling as my foot was one way and my hips and shoulders were straight.
Click to expand...

Well it is straight in the sense that you do not bend your ankle before it lands; but it definitely points to the leg-side. What you describe above actually could be close to correct. Watching the above video should clear things up.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah dave eow is right, this is why you see alot of leggies approach at a slight angle so that the pivot is slightly longer, your front foot after the pivot looks alright though. You don't want the following through foot landing completely side on like I do though as you end up falling over your ankle and it could cause a pretty bad ankle injury, something i'm working on solving atm.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;348776 said:
Sounds like you have a fast bowler coaching spin there. Your front-foot should land on the right-side of your back foot(assuming a right hander leg-spinner), there is absolutely no way that you could maintain balance doing that and have your foot pointing where your want to bowl before the pivot. It has to point to the leg-side significantly, even if you are aiming to bowl outside off-stump.

If you were pivoting too far, I daresay that before the pivot the front-foot was pointing too straight. You were probably trying to do a full pivot; but because your front-foot was pointing too straight there was less distance to cover, so you ended up pivoting too far.

Look at where the front foot of Warne points before he pivots: YouTube - A tribute to Shane Warne


Pause it at 15 seconds to see what I mean.



Well it is straight in the sense that you do not bend your ankle before it lands; but it definitely points to the leg-side. What you describe above actually could be close to correct. Watching the above video should clear things up.
Click to expand...

Eow is spot on. Have a look at some action shots of the great legspinners and you will see he is right.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;348912 said:
Nope, that's exactly what I was talking about. Your front-land lands in line with your back-foot, it should be landing to the right of it.
Click to expand...

So where my foot A comes over and round the pivoting foot and ends up underneath the line in the diagram you're saying that it should stay above the line?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I recieved a reply from Terry Jenner and this is what he said

"Dear Macca, I can only say that trying to use the flicking of the fingers whilst delivering the ball overarm seems to lend itself to either side spin release which creates a googly or a backspin release which produces the flipper.
Clarrie was a genius but it would have been almost impossible to flick the fingers and create overspin, the way I understand the release of the cricket ball.
I often told the kids a Grimmett story re the "flicker" and the "flipper"
During the story I would show the flicking finger googly and the flicking finger flipper " severe backspin"
I could only demo the googly over a short pitch and had to bowl with a very low arm.
Over 22 yards I was hopeless with both.
Sorry that is the best i can offer.
Regards Terry Jenner.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;348825 said:
I recieved a reply from Terry Jenner and this is what he said

"Dear Macca, I can only say that trying to use the flicking of the fingers whilst delivering the ball overarm seems to lend itself to either side spin release which creates a googly or a backspin release which produces the flipper.
Clarrie was a genius but it would have been almost impossible to flick the fingers and create overspin, the way I understand the release of the cricket ball.
I often told the kids a Grimmett story re the "flicker" and the "flipper"
During the story I would show the flicking finger googly and the flicking finger flipper " severe backspin"
I could only demo the googly over a short pitch and had to bowl with a very low arm.
Over 22 yards I was hopeless with both.
Sorry that is the best i can offer.
Regards Terry Jenner.
Click to expand...

I just sent another email to Terry Jenner in response to his note to me , where I stated some of the evidence in Grimmetts own words. I dont know if I will hear back but the penny may drop for Jenner because he is a legspinner, but I am just amazed that nobody has read the book. I hope he is not confusing " flick" with "click" like Mallett seems to in his book.

In my reply I said how Grimmett said it was hard and that he spent 12 years, summer and winter developing it. But I also told him I did not think it would take Grimmett 12 years to bowl the modern flipper even though he started from scratch.

It was only when I read Malletts book did I realise that the true story of the flipper has been lost. I cant find any other reference that includes my theory.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348915 said:
So where my foot A comes over and round the pivoting foot and ends up underneath the line in the diagram you're saying that it should stay above the line?
Click to expand...

No, this is about where foot B lands. Sorry my last post was very ambiguous.
Foot B should land above the line.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;348825 said:
I recieved a reply from Terry Jenner and this is what he said

"Dear Macca, I can only say that trying to use the flicking of the fingers whilst delivering the ball overarm seems to lend itself to either side spin release which creates a googly or a backspin release which produces the flipper.
Clarrie was a genius but it would have been almost impossible to flick the fingers and create overspin, the way I understand the release of the cricket ball.
I often told the kids a Grimmett story re the "flicker" and the "flipper"
During the story I would show the flicking finger googly and the flicking finger flipper " severe backspin"
I could only demo the googly over a short pitch and had to bowl with a very low arm.
Over 22 yards I was hopeless with both.
Sorry that is the best i can offer.
Regards Terry Jenner.
Click to expand...

I get the same as Jenner says. I tend to get it as an offspinner or a googly as he puts it. I can understand his difficulty in understanding that you are bowling a flipper to yourself while bowling forwards. The flipper bowled to the batsman gives backspin, but moving your wrist 180 degrees to this gives topspin. But the wrist must be kept in a very precise position to get overspin only. I agree with you though Macca that even mine has an element of topspin and it does kick off the pitch despite me getting some offspin on it. In my case I find it equally difficult to bowl back towrds me while propelling forwards to get the big leg break.

What I am surprised at though as you say, is the fact that your countries top legspinners would have never analysed, read and reread , studied and practiced what grimmett says. He got all this through hours of experimentation and observation. But if he did not perfect it over all those years, I doubt how many will manage. On the other hand Warne would tell you he 'only' had is legbreak and flipper and non spinning leg break/zooter/slider and took bucket loads.......But the bottom line is as you say is the fact that they never seem to have read these books. It is comparing this to becoming a doctor without ever having seen a patient (the most classic of textbooks).
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I can testify to the fact that that it is possible to turn the hand 180 degrees and click the fingers flipper style to produce a ball that spins in a Top spinner manner. The view the bat would see would be the side of the hand in the style of a karate chop and as you click the fingers your thumb would be facing you. I'm not saying that it's easy because it's not and I've injured myself trying to do it last week and I've now got to not bowl by the feels of it for a couple of weeks (Sod you Macca with your Clarrie Grimmet secret ball)! anyway that aside it sounds as though Saddo has got it? Are you really bowling this ball Saddo because it's pulled a major tendon or muscle in the underside of my forearm and it's causing me problems with my bowling and I'm going to have to ease up for a week and see if it correctes itself. It's a difficult ball to bowl I reckon.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Just something I missed on that last image: Foot A should be at about 90 degrees to the stumps for a side on action. It's position in the image is a midway action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

So Jenners description of this ball is the "Finger flicking Googly" Top spin and breaks like an off-spin ball. The continuing issue here is one of semantics when Jenner says Flicking are we to assume he really means 'Clicking'?

How on earth did you get Jenners email address?

You'll be emailing Warne next Macca?!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348880 said:
I can testify to the fact that that it is possible to turn the hand 180 degrees and click the fingers flipper style to produce a ball that spins in a Top spinner manner. The view the bat would see would be the side of the hand in the style of a karate chop and as you click the fingers your thumb would be facing you. I'm not saying that it's easy because it's not and I've injured myself trying to do it last week and I've now got to not bowl by the feels of it for a couple of weeks (Sod you Macca with your Clarrie Grimmet secret ball)! anyway that aside it sounds as though Saddo has got it? Are you really bowling this ball Saddo because it's pulled a major tendon or muscle in the underside of my forearm and it's causing me problems with my bowling and I'm going to have to ease up for a week and see if it correctes itself. It's a difficult ball to bowl I reckon.
Click to expand...

I am sorry for the problems you have. I myself have been hobbling with knee pain for a few months on and off but stiil try to jog 17 miles a week. This might explain why my pivot is weak as it stresses my left knee. Any how I am not sure if I do it right. I seem to get fast turn like a ggogly/offbreak as I said before. The problem is I do not know whether I chuck it. I find it difficult to keep my elbow straight.

I thought you had a match today or was it rained off
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;348881 said:
So Jenners description of this ball is the "Finger flicking Googly" Top spin and breaks like an off-spin ball. The continuing issue here is one of semantics when Jenner says Flicking are we to assume he really means 'Clicking'?

How on earth did you get Jenners email address?

You'll be emailing Warne next Macca?!
Click to expand...


Yes he will soone e mail grimmett at this rate. God bless his soul.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I think it'll be easier if I just upload a clip of me bowling - because looking at your image I reckon I'd almost be falling over if I was coming out of my delivery with my feet in those positions especially the last foot position, but I may be wrong?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I never noticed that Jenner had a contact option on his blog I'll have to have a look. Yeah it rained all morning and then at 12.10 hrs as predicted by the BBC weather the sky cleared and it was blue sky and sunshine but blustery, but the other team where travelling down from Cambridgeshire (80 Miles +) so at 11.00 they rang and said call it off. I went over to the local field for an impromptu game and they'd obviously cancelled their game as well.

The arm's painful so I'm going to rest it as much as I can, but it may be Macca's Flipper or it could just be the fact that I'm bowling proper Leg Breaks now and i'm using all the levers and therefore new muscles. I'll have to see how it goes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top