Wrist Spin Bowling

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Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I think it'll be easier if I just upload a clip of me bowling - because looking at your image I reckon I'd almost be falling over if I was coming out of my delivery with my feet in those positions especially the last foot position, but I may be wrong?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

If you're doing the flipper click with this with the wrist turned in I reckon that's a pretty good effort. I'm sure my action isn't going to look half as smooth as yours does and nowhere near as accurate. I reckon you should keep this up and have this as one of your balls.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349137 said:
It's a difficult thing to film any bowling delivery without the right kind of gear. I reckon I'm probably in a better position than most to do this stuff and I'm quite liking the angle/perspective on todays video clip because the camera is on a big tripod above and behind me and you're able to see the whole of my action including the grip and release almost.

The reason the delivery is slows is that it was done slowly in order that the ball didn't disappear down the road. This was just a test to see if the angle was good and whethet I needed to change the focal length and zoom in slightly to bring the stumps into view/closer so you can see where the ball pitches and whether it spins
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Good angle. I have an 8 year old sony camera but seem to have lost the drivers. Tried to get them on line but without success. I also have no idea whether it is compatible with vista. Any ideas Gundalf as you seem to be the computer geek here?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

What exactly do you mean by the traffic cop sign. They usaully have lots of them. A diagram would do very fine thank you.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

what I mean is if the body is facing that direction the left arm needs to be where the right arm is and vice versa (or the body facing the other direction with arms kept in the same place).

yeah dave the angle looks great it probablly the best you can get, just whetehr you can get the ball in the same pic as well unless you want just the action.

saddo i'd suggest checking the sony website for drivers or if there aren't any maybe you can find some generic drivers, which is probablly unlikely though worth a try, other than that i'm not sure what you could do.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I just used traffic cop to describe the forced and exaggerated position I get my young bloke to assume with his hand in practise against the wall to make sure he is legspinning the ball, the other deliveries we also do this also, I suppose the backspinner could be a sort of karate chop, but dave has already claimed that description for the reverse flipper.

When he is not exaggerating and bowling proper, I would describe his hand position just after release as a bit like how a lady is supposed to hold a cup of tea or someone giving an AOK sign, with the 4th finger sort of sticking out. I think that is what Philpott means when he said he and Johnny Martin ( leftarm wristspinner) when they bowled together could tell each other were both bowling well when their 4th fingers looked like that.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Saddo it's a bit like your avatar - the aspect of the hand as the ball is released would be the same as your avatar but all the fingers would have straightened out just as the ball has left the hand and the hand would then come down and through past the side of the body.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

i've managed to have a practice this evening and had a go at bowling the topspinning flipper the grimmett way. It was awkward to bowl at first but at first they were all turning like off spinners with some top spin which seems to be a useful variation in its own right. Bowling with a high arm it seems nigh on impossible to bowl but once I switched to a more grimmettesque round arm action and 15 mins later with a bit of practice I found it is possible. It really does spit onto the batsman if you can get it right and stay low mostly. Accuracy wasn't great but it definitely has the potential to be a really useful ball for leggies.
On a weird note though a couple really dug in like a crazy topspinner and bounced really high though i'm not sure why as most kept lowish.
I'll try and upload the footage once i've edited out the wides.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;349141 said:
what I mean is if the body is facing that direction the left arm needs to be where the right arm is and vice versa (or the body facing the other direction with arms kept in the same place)
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So the batsman would have the view of a karate chop from my right hand if i get it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I've got tennis elbow it seems and I'm going to have to rest up and it seems more than likely it's been caused by the leg breaks rather than the flippers. I tried bowling the leg breaks tonight and it's obvious the new wrist action is the cause of the problem. I've just been looking up different medical websites and their description fits the symptoms and the general advice is to rest it. So I'm resting.

I like Macca's description of the ladies holding the cups of tea - that's a classic! My interpretation of Macca's traffic cop is the hand held up straight pointed at the batsman in a 'Stop' kind of manner.

I'm just in the process of uploading a clip of my feet position coming into and leaving my rotation so that EOW can have a look. It'll be a while though.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

"yeah i think so"- this is probablly wrong so i'm editing it,

correct bit:
the batsman should only see a sort of karate chop after you have released the ball as you drive your arm through with your finger sticking out like the tea cup analogy it should be your leading arm in a sort of karate chop or stop sign position as it comes over.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

I never even thought of taking Grimmetts round arm into account like gundalf said . That has to be considered. Jenner said he could only bowl those two balls he described in his email with a low arm action.

Grimmett maintained his roundarm was a bit of an illusion and when he released the ball his arm is up there in a pretty normal position.

From what the spindoctor said in his email he has not even thought about trying the reverse flipper and does not even think it possible. I would have a hard time convincing anyone if they knew Mallett and Jenner thought what I was telling them was crap. I mean who am I?. The only people in the world who get it are the few people on this thread it seems. To me the whole thing is unbelievable. They may think I am crazy or badly mistaken but really they are calling Grimmett a liar or a hoax in his 1948 book, which neither seems to have read.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;349118 said:
I never even thought of taking Grimmetts round arm into account like gundalf said . That has to be considered. Jenner said he could only bowl those two balls he described in his email with a low arm action.

Grimmett maintained his roundarm was a bit of an illusion and when he released the ball his arm is up there in a pretty normal position.

From what the spindoctor said in his email he has not even thought about trying the reverse flipper and does not even think it possible. I would have a hard time convincing anyone if they knew Mallett and Jenner thought what I was telling them was crap. I mean who am I?. The only people in the world who get it are the few people on this thread it seems. To me the whole thing is unbelievable. They may think I am crazy or badly mistaken but really they are calling Grimmett a liar or a hoax in his 1948 book, which neither seems to have read.
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See now there's a challenge for us and this quantifies what I've said in the past or alluded to that most wrist spinners don't go beyond bowling Leg Breaks, Toppies and wrong Uns. Maybe this is something to do with the coaching they all get and they're encouraged to focus on a limited range of deliveries? It also reinforces your belief that Grimmett was a cricket genius or had OCD!
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349119 said:
Here it is have a look - what am I doing wrong - what should be where?

YouTube - rotation analysis 001
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Looks very smooth. I think, as long as your bowling shoulder faces the batsman you are ok. From what i see, you have that unorthodox way of crossing your legs on getting into a side on position, and your non bowling arm is not tucked close into your ribs. But who am I to comment.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349139 said:
If you're doing the flipper click with this with the wrist turned in I reckon that's a pretty good effort. I'm sure my action isn't going to look half as smooth as yours does and nowhere near as accurate. I reckon you should keep this up and have this as one of your balls.
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It maybe one I keep with as it does seem to have something different about it. I wasn't that accurate as I had to edit out some really awful ball was landing about 1 in 4 or 5 so i'd guess it would need a bit of practice.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;349118 said:
I never even thought of taking Grimmetts round arm into account like gundalf said . That has to be considered. Jenner said he could only bowl those two balls he described in his email with a low arm action

From what the spindoctor said in his email he has not even thought about trying the reverse flipper and does not even think it possible. I would have a hard time convincing anyone if they knew Mallett and Jenner thought what I was telling them was crap. I mean who am I?. The only people in the world who get it are the few people on this thread it seems. To me the whole thing is unbelievable. They may think I am crazy or badly mistaken but really they are calling Grimmett a liar or a hoax in his 1948 book, which neither seems to have read.
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Yes, I find it strange that a strange lot like legspinners, who practice more than other bowlers I presume, do not experiment with different deliveries and strategies. Maybe what they think is they prefer sticking to basics and being sure that they can reproduce these perfectly when in match conditions, than attempt deliveries they are not confident with. Once again I think it is a shame that certain books/classics remain out of print.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

oops saddo i've got it the wrong way round it should be your left arm as the karate chop (or stop signal if you show your palm to the batsman) as thats your leading arm for the leg break.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349117 said:
I've got tennis elbow it seems and I'm going to have to rest up and it seems more than likely it's been caused by the leg breaks rather than the flippers. I tried bowling the leg breaks tonight and it's obvious the new wrist action is the cause of the problem. I've just been looking up different medical websites and their description fits the symptoms and the general advice is to rest it.
Click to expand...

Could it be you are gripping the ball too tightly and thus putting too much tension on your forearm extensors. Torsional movements eg repetitively opening/closing tight taps/doornobs or similar actions can cause your epicondylitis.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349119 said:
Here it is have a look - what am I doing wrong - what should be where?

YouTube - rotation analysis 001
Click to expand...

Looks okay from front-foot position point of view; your front foot quite clearly lands to the right of your back foot.

sadspinner said:
and your non bowling arm is not tucked close into your ribs. But who am I to comment.
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Nice catch sadspinner, now I am no bio-mechanics expert, but I reckon that could be what is causing Dave's slight over-rotation. I just run through my action, albeit slowly, both with the arm tucked in and with the arm hanging out like Dave's, and every time I hung my arm out like Dave I over-rotated slightly. Whereas, when my arm was tucked in I had no over-rotation at all.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

macca;349112 said:
I just used traffic cop to describe the forced and exaggerated position I get my young bloke to assume with his hand in practise against the wall to make sure he is legspinning the ball, the other deliveries we also do this also, I suppose the backspinner could be a sort of karate chop, but dave has already claimed that description for the reverse flipper.

When he is not exaggerating and bowling proper, I would describe his hand position just after release as a bit like how a lady is supposed to hold a cup of tea or someone giving an AOK sign, with the 4th finger sort of sticking out. I think that is what Philpott means when he said he and Johnny Martin ( leftarm wristspinner) when they bowled together could tell each other were both bowling well when their 4th fingers looked like that.
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When you said before, that you bowl into the wall
1 How far away from a wall would you stay
2 Do you bowl against the wall ie you do not let it bounce onto the floor before the wall I presume.
3 Do you include any run up or is it a standstill release?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

The Edge Of Willow;349159 said:
Looks okay from front-foot position point of view; your front foot quite clearly lands to the right of your back foot.



Nice catch sadspinner, now I am no bio-mechanics expert, but I reckon that could be what is causing Dave's slight over-rotation. I just run through my action, albeit slowly, both with the arm tucked in and with the arm hanging out like Dave's, and every time I hung my arm out like Dave I over-rotated slightly. Whereas, when my arm was tucked in I had no over-rotation at all.
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I'll have to look at some vids of Jenner, Warne, Casson et and see what they do with their other arm during their delivery.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Been a while since I've bowled. But I might try and bowl a couple in the backyard in the next couple of days. I'll see if I can record it so you can see my action.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Do not seem to have missed much action here. Was thinking about purchasing a book about tich freeman, one by ian peebeles and one by eric hollies. What do you think macca, are they any good/interesting?
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Davey boy hope you are getting slowly better. The injuries take some time to heal, you must have patience. In the meantime I am sure you are cosumed by the need to go out and turn your arm. I, myself as you know despite the pain hobble out, as staying in stifles me.

I tried the method you were discussing with EOW, the other day about the left foot being to the right of the right foot. It is true, the pivot and kicking round of the right foot is much better. Good point. Still have to confirm with you tube whether this is obvious in their videos. God this action is so complex.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah, I was surprised when I looked back at the video footage as it felt really awkward but it doesn't look to bad though the off break type ball looks slightly similar to the googly, though its released from slightly under the wrist its hard to tell the difference on the vid.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

Where are you finding these books? I think we've started a run on the 'Getting Wickets' books because all the places on-line that did have 'em have sold 'em all recently and it looks like I'm going to have trouble getting hold of a copy now!

With regards my arm, I've told my team that I'm unavailable for the this weekend, but I seem to be getting offers from all over the place to bowl in the nets and have a knock about with people and I can't! I went over the field this evening and had bat with the boys and kept wicket, but threw everything underarm or with my left arm. So that's 2 days now without a bowl which is gutting as a crew of 16 year olds have started to join us on the field and two of them can bowl and bat and I can't bowl against them!

So without any prospect of a bowl I can't try EOW's follow through either and I can't find any good footage of others follow through although the Beau Casson clip shows his footwork and so must the BBC/Jenner clip? I'm going to have a look.


Just looked at Jenner 2.06; 2.50; 3.00 minutes into the video he's clearly seen from the bats end of the stumps bring his feet round a perfect 180 in line with the direction of flight
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

gundalf7;349132 said:
yeah, I was surprised when I looked back at the video footage as it felt really awkward but it doesn't look to bad though the off break type ball looks slightly similar to the googly, though its released under the wrist its hard to tell the difference on the vid.
Click to expand...

When I tried it it came out as a googly/offbreak with some topspin that was slightly faster off the pitch than the conventional toppie. But i have the impression that I tend to straighten the arm ie i think I chuck it.
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

someblokecalleddave;349623 said:
Where are you finding these books? I think we've started a run on the 'Getting Wickets' books because all the places on-line that did have 'em have sold 'em all recently and it looks like I'm going to have trouble getting hold of a copy now!
.
Click to expand...

I thought macca had read that and another book by grimmett and was not too impressed, but i may be wrong.I was just looking around the net to tell myou the truth. Found a site but forgot to bookmark it. There was a flicker book on grimmett bowling a googly. He seemed to be throwing a discus rather than bowling on the photo i saw. I wiil have to look for the site again . If I find it, I will try to pass you the link, but i think he only had grimmett on cricket. He had the books by peebles and hollies(the one that bowled bradman with a googly in his last test match), and i think one on o'reilly, and another on 20 spinners by people that saw them play.pinners like grimmett, o'reilly, verity etc
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah i had the same feeling that maybe it was border on chucking, thinking about it there is some similarity to murali's off break if you think about it except spun by the thumb rather than the index finger
 
Re: Wrist Spin Bowling

yeah i'm not sure if it should be 180 degree rotation or not as some leggies seems to do more.

I had to turn down a uni game today to due to having to work and partially have injured my shoulder, my rotator cuff I think so bowling probablly isn't a good idea anyway.
 
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