General questions on youth cricket

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someblokecalleddave

someblokecalleddave

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General questions on youth cricket

Didn't know where to ask this and this title seemed vague enough and no-one seems to be commenting here anyway. So.... The question.

Relates to UK club cricket; At what age/point in kids cricket do they start to sort the bowlers from the batsman. One of my lads is on the verge of moving up to the U13's and I was just wondering if in that age group they continue to give everyone a bowl even though some of them 2 years or more in, are still chucking the ball and or couldn't hit a barn door from a 5 metres?

Another question while we're here, do they carry on with the 'Terrier cricket' format or do they move to the "Once you're out that's it" approach?
 
Re: A Few Questions

someblokecalleddave;407394 said:
Didn't know where to ask this and this title seemed vague enough and no-one seems to be commenting here anyway. So.... The question.

Relates to UK club cricket; At what age/point in kids cricket do they start to sort the bowlers from the batsman. One of my lads is on the verge of moving up to the U13's and I was just wondering if in that age group they continue to give everyone a bowl even though some of them 2 years or more in, are still chucking the ball and or couldn't hit a barn door from a 5 metres?

Another question while we're here, do they carry on with the 'Terrier cricket' format or do they move to the "Once you're out that's it" approach?
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Depends on the competition and the rules they play under.

Generally speaking once they hit the U13 age bracket (U12 if the years are 'doubled' up) then they'll move onto what could be termed proper cricket. Games will be 20 overs per side and once you're out, you're out. Bowlers bowl a maximum of 4 overs, although not everyone has to bowl.

There are a couple of conditions such as players retire when they've reached 30. Which I guess is there to give as many players a bat as possible. You also tend to find that most places give everyone a bowl, except for the keeper or those players who really don't fancy it.

I guess U12/U13 is where players tend to show a preference for one or the other but it's not until U15 that real specialisation occurs. Of course, the way that junior cricket is run in the UK means that most players can bowl or bat to a certain standard and many will dabble in both all the way through.

Also, you'll be surprised at the development many will show over the next year or so. A lot of the boys will be coming up towards or in the middle of a growth spurt, which is also a time where skill acquisition/development quickens (granted it's not as quick as when they are younger but it's noticeable). They finish in the summer hardly being able to bowl and then come back almost looking like cricketers!
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

As mas says, depends on the competition.

The Essex league and cup rules go on... and on. As you will know, the county is split into districts [I'm not talking rep here]. Each district has it's own competition; the cup winners going on to the county cup and if they win, on to the nationals. If you lose a cup match, you're out!

I think you will get the idea here... it can become extremely competitive :D.

Most of the matches are 20 overs, although they increase to 40 as you move up the cup, lbw comes into play and you are expected to walk... ooh! before I forget, penalty points come in too. This can be for taking too long to come in, the ball hitting a grounded helmet etc :(. Yep, this is real cricket. Retirement only in cup matches; you go on til 'out' in league matches

I'll be honest, when I managed from this age up, only those I knew could cut it would get selected. However, this was never fixed in stone. I would go to every training session and those who impressed were picked... with a squad of 43 players, you can imagine, there were some disappointed youngsters. They were only as good as their last match and if somebody else showed more promise, they would be brought in.

I never classified the guys as batsmen or bowlers... or even pace or spin. It is always possible to change; even up through adult.

However, all this depends on the tournament the team are put in. Some clubs only play friendly matches and this is a totally different barrel of ducks :D
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

As mc says its often down to the competition and their rules.

In Norfolk there are two main youth leagues but they have different rules and different age groups. One has even age groups, u12, 14 and 16 and plays 20 over 'proper' 11-a-side matches with bowlers limited to 4 overs. The other has odd age groups u11, 13 and 15 and plays 8-a-side 16 over games on a 'pairs' format (is this what you mean by 'Terrier' where there is a run penalty for being out but the batter can carry on) at least for the under 11s and under 13s, not sure of the under 15s

In answer to the original question, I coach in the under 12 league and this season I have seen teams turn up and use just 5 bowlers (who also happened to be their top 5 batters) whilst other teams have made sure everyone in the team (bar w/k) has had at least one over. Personally I wont bowl a bowler unless they can bowl legitimate balls reasonably consistently in training (we play 2 for a no ball / wide) so there is an expectation that the batsman will be called into play, which isnt always the case when everyone gets a bowl and calling six no balls / wides in an over doesnt really help anyone.

The issue of 'fairness' is one that I often find a difficult one and I have adjusted the batting order this season to ensure that non bowlers have had the opportunity to bat even if there are 'better' players lower down the order. Most parents, and even players, are happy with this arrangement as it has helped 'bring on' some players and also it has ensured there are enough lads turning up to raise a team as 'making up the numbers' in youth cricket isnt a lot of fun when there are so many other things to distract kids nowadays.
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

mas cambios;407481 said:
And that's just the parents...
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I guess I have just been lucky. I have found most parents to either be supportive or at worst neutral.

I think some of the other district coaches have had a bit of stick but I set out the rules fairly early on - district cricket is as competitive as most of the lads will face until they play adult cricket and I wanted to support that ideal as much as I could, hence only the good bowlers bowled and batsmen were ordered by merit (if you can neither bat nor bowl then you shouldnt be making a district team - if you are the 6th best bowler in the district, then well done but if you dont bat then expect to be no 11) - I only had one lad who couldnt take that approach this season and he came from a club where everyone got to do everything but in truth that meant there was no benefit in striving to be better as it didnt result in more opportunities and so he struggled to adapt to the district culture

Liz, Essex sounds a different world and a squad of 43! - thats my under 12 squad plus that of my two nearest rivals put together. I guess some of the big clubs might get that number of lads to training but how they select and also keep everyone happy is a problem I am happy to be without - lots of friendlies I guess
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

TonyM;407489 said:
I guess I have just been lucky. I have found most parents to either be supportive or at worst neutral.
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I was partly tongue in cheek to be honest with the parent comment. This year I've found that 99.99% of parents have been great. The two who did 'moan' were set straight and seemed to be fine with things afterwards. Coaches in other age groups have not been so lucky. Then again, some of it was due to the coach and his persona as much as anything else.

As you say, as long as you explain your reasoning, most parents are good. Whilst I'll never discuss selection or tactics I will give an overview of what I'm trying to achieve.

One thing I do notice is the effect that parents have on their children when they're playing. At club level, where the parental interest tends to be lower, most players seem to enjoy extra freedom to play their game. Once they step up into regional/county, then in a lot of cases the parental interest increases and the players tend to shrink into their shells a little.

Of course, the guys are playing a better standard of cricket, coupled with the pressure they put themselves under. However, I've seen players change during a game - almost shrinking as they notice mum or dad arriving.

Anyway, we've gone slightly off topic from Dave's original question - apologies! As others have said, a lot of it depends on the team. I know that some clubs around here have trials at the start of the year, which then determines who plays. Others, including the one I play for take the attitude of cricket for all and try to give everyone an opportunity.
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

TonyM;407489 said:
...Liz, Essex sounds a different world and a squad of 43!
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O Dear! Typo... that should have been 34 :eek:. Twitchy fingers I think!

TonyM;407489 said:
- thats my under 12 squad plus that of my two nearest rivals put together. I guess some of the big clubs might get that number of lads to training but how they select and also keep everyone happy is a problem I am happy to be without - lots of friendlies I guess
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There are never problems... just solutions :D.

I know the district Dave is in and it is really competitive. The plus side is, you cannot travel too far without gatecrashing a youth set up and finding the culture you like. There are the teams that are full of county players, teams that play mixed gender, large teams, small teams, disability mixed... the whole lot. Going further into London or higher up the ladder with respect to the cup matches, you will bump into regional players and at U15s the guys played against a couple of Indian Internationals!

Being on the Essex/Cambridgeshire border we were fortunate enough to be able to enter the squad into district leagues in both counties. The only difficulty would be a player not being able to play in cup matches for both counties. Cambridgeshire has several leagues, depending on ability, so our 'development' squad was entered into one of their lower leagues. The U13 squad at the Club this year is even larger and they have three teams playing in three leagues as you can enter a year into more than one Cambridgeshire district league. They are also playing in the Premier League this year.

However, this is an unusual age group. All the other age groups have two teams entered into different leagues, except the U16s who are just entered into one competition... the Essex Matchplay. For some reason, these matches are always the day before a vital GCSE exam and quite a few players are unavailable to play, especially as it is 40 overs and you can be travelling a couple of hours one way :(.
 
Re: General questions on youth cricket

Our U13's coach said that the kids in the opposition that they've faced this year, have been very vocal and have no qualms about sledging and trying to psychologically undermine the confidence of our boys. He seemed quite surprised at how eager and ready these other kids were to verbally put the boot in as such and it worked it seems, our boys in comparison came across as sheepish!
 
deadset you guys have it way too complicated in england... In australia you play terrier or "kanga" cricket until U12's then it's on to 30 over, hard ball, full rules matches... harden up guys...
 
T.A Offspinner said:
deadset you guys have it way too complicated in england... In australia you play terrier or "kanga" cricket until U12's then it's on to 30 over, hard ball, full rules matches... harden up guys...
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How is it complicated? It most cases players experience soft ball cricket up until the age of 10 and then they move onto hard ball cricket. Club cricket at age group level is mostly kept to a 20 over per side format, regional and county cricket starts from 30 overs up to 50 as the players progress.
 
mas cambios said:
Re: A Few Questions



Depends on the competition and the rules they play under.

Generally speaking once they hit the U13 age bracket (U12 if the years are 'doubled' up) then they'll move onto what could be termed proper cricket. Games will be 20 overs per side and once you're out, you're out. Bowlers bowl a maximum of 4 overs, although not everyone has to bowl.

There are a couple of conditions such as players retire when they've reached 30. Which I guess is there to give as many players a bat as possible. You also tend to find that most places give everyone a bowl, except for the keeper or those players who really don't fancy it.

I guess U12/U13 is where players tend to show a preference for one or the other but it's not until U15 that real specialisation occurs. Of course, the way that junior cricket is run in the UK means that most players can bowl or bat to a certain standard and many will dabble in both all the way through.

Also, you'll be surprised at the development many will show over the next year or so. A lot of the boys will be coming up towards or in the middle of a growth spurt, which is also a time where skill acquisition/development quickens (granted it's not as quick as when they are younger but it's noticeable). They finish in the summer hardly being able to bowl and then come back almost looking like cricketers!
Click to expand...

This is interesting, some of the things Mas said here (I miss Mas, but I think I know where he hangs out these days), my older son Ben has done exactly as Mas has said. He won 'Bowler of the year' last year and was doing pretty well, but over the winter he's grown massively and only in the last month he's grown another 1.5 centimetres! The coaches in the nets are all showing a great deal of interest in what he's doing at the moment because he's physically much bigger and has developed so much more since the last games they would have seen him bowl in (Aug). He's (We're) lucky in that across the road from our house is a grassy paddock in which we maintain a wicket, (see below) so after August Ben would have continued bowling through Sept/Oct and into November on concrete. I addition we all play cricket Ben, Joe and me, whereas most other kids would have probably settled down to 6 or 7 months of Play Station and XBOX. Once the cricket was 'Frozen off' we started to play Badmintion which is probably good for the shoulders? So when we've come back to the nets this season his bowling has got exponentially better and faster.

So I'm wondering what's the set up with the Under 13's? I'll ask tomorrow night at nets if I don't get an answer here, but the question I'm looking for answers to is - do the U13's have a full 11 man side, because the teams below were always 7 or 8 men aside?
Paddock+June+9th+2010+(6)+-+blog.jpg
 
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