How Come World Rugby Is Growing Faster Than World Cricket?

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futureblackcap

futureblackcap

Well-Known Member
I want to hear your thoughts on this, the 2011 rugby world cup in New Zealand is expected to be watched by more than four billion people in 200 plus countries and 85 000 people are said to be traveling to NZ to watch it live.

What I'm getting at is apart from the top 8 teams in world cricket, the level of competitiveness drops dramatically and all this so called money being pushed into development is being wasted.

Think about Canada, all their players were born in another country apart from what two Sri Lankans who's parents had migrated there? World rugby's competitiveness has grown heaps faster as the money is invested smartly into the lesser nations on the goal of making them as competitive as the top six countries in the world.

The Canadian rugby team may not be expected to lift the Web Ellis Cup but they have a lot of home grown talent and they aren't made up of retired imports.

Thoughts?
 
The same point about competitiveness holds in rugby, probably even more so. It's hard to see any of the minnows sprining a suprrise and winning against an established nation at the world cup. Georgia came close in the last one vs Ireland but that aside the games go to form. To that extent I disgree that Rugby is more competitve then Cricket. Can't see and Ireland style upset in the Rugby WC really and only Argentina have really developed as a force in the last 20 years.

At the end of the day though it boils down to the fact that the IRB want the minnows there as they see the value in both gate receipts, TV rights and the ethos of a World Cup being open to more then just the established elite. Something the ICC fail to grasp despite their partial U-turn last week.
 
The general culture!

As a sports scientist I specialise in cricket but work in professional rugby union. I could not begin to explain my first sentence but essentially, it is a whole different ball game. :D
 
I know very little about Rugby, but isn't it - turn up watch the game (In evening or weekend) and 2 hours later you're off home? Whereas cricket it's all day and far more complex to understand if you're new to it or longer if it's a test match. Hence the reason T20 has done so well recently because of it's shortness and the fact that it's played in the evenings and weekends and is over and done with quickly. Cricket in its longer formats in todays world where everything is now and immediate isn't seen as being accessible.

Added to that in schools it's played less, add to that kids don't play outside here in the UK they're inside playing XBOX et al which suits their parents, there's a multitude of reasons around this which are social and political. Kids can't catch a ball, can't and wont run and are basically sedentary here in the UK. New figures suggest that obesity in under 16's is on par with the USA. In Bob Woolmers recent book he goes as far as saying that kids are so sedentary that he can see that in our life-times the length of a cricket pitch will be shortened along with the boundaries.
 
Well Dave, I didn't know where to start... but then I reminded myself of your first six words and put the wrath back in the box.

All you say is true about cricket, however, the intricacies and complexities in rugby make cricket seem like snap. :D Although I work mainly within Union, I am with a League team this week and often work three days solid during 7s. So, you see, rugby also has its variations.

Rugby is played from late August through to Easter here in the UK; May and June is usually taken up with fitness training and July is pre-season, skill specific. Unlike cricketers, rugby players' training time exceed their playing time. They train and play [outside] no matter what the weather; come rain, come shine, come frost, come snow and blizzard!

Rugby players tend to take their sport more seriously; they keep fit to play rather than cricketers who, with a few exceptions, play to keep fit.

Rugby is far more inclusive than cricket; although a few clubs at grassroots level get it right, as you move up the grades it becomes extremely exclusive; practically and mentally.

As for the Test matches in cricket, they are actually more accessible than the other forms; I can easily get hold of far cheaper tickets than for T20. It basically suffers because most people cannot be bothered to attend the longer matches. Whilst on the subject of cost, you can get tickets for a professional rugby match far cheaper than for a county cricket match!

Basically, there is a huge cultural difference and you really cannot compare the two.
 
Mmm....Interesting thoughts, cricket's rules are more difficult to understand than any other sport in the world I would think. That's probably the biggest reason, having said that. 105 nations are part of the ICC, so no excuses from the associate nations.
 
I think you can compare rugby and cricket and I will tell you why, in every country in the world. There is competition for the country's national sport. Whether it is rugby, cricket, rugby league, netball, hockey, soccer and basket-ball like here in in New Zealand. There is competition, everyone likes seeing talented individuals take up their sport. When I was first hooked onto cricket, I didn't know any rules. Rules don't matter when you first watch a sport. What matters is something in that sport has to be attractive to you. Over the years, you will learn the rules like I did. I didn't start learning about cricket through books, I learnt about it watching television and gradually I moved onto books and now I use all the media forms. Sport is competition. The competition of hooking young people into each sport. Forget rules, they come later.
 
futureblackcap said:
Forget rules, they come later.
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Absolutely not! You forget the rules about where and when you can hand off, especially on the face... when you line out, scrum down, ruck over, how you bind in the scrum and tackle, not only will you be out of the game, leaving your team one man down but you could kill somebody! That's just the forwards. There are fifteen positions in rugby union and each position has its own set of rules, let alone each scenario.

As for the rules of cricket... what is difficult to understand? Having coached both at grassroots, cricket has one of the easiest set of laws to conquer. The fact is, not a lot happens if you break the rules so most people cannot be bothered to take the time to learn them.

As for comparing the two sports, you have only compared a couple of factors... you can do that with anything. You could compare driving with diving. However, you cannot compare the two on a whole. It is very wrong to believe it is all about competition. The cultures are, universally, totally different. Forget the national sport, neither cricket nor rugby is our national sport so you can take that factor out of the equation. Fact is, rugby fans are prepared to endure far more hardships to watch their sport and it does not have anything to do with how much money you pour into it. Don't believe me, next time it rains go down to the local clubs, see how many parents, let alone bystanders, are watching the cricket and how many watch the rugby. On a cold November morning, with the ground hard as iron and driving sleet coming in from the North, you will find a match taking place, with parents and supporters full along the touchlines, supporting and trying to ease the conditions for the 10 year olds playing on!!
 
My point is, you don't get attracted to a sport by it's rules. Sure, you will need to know them in order to play cricket/rugby well.

Cricket's principles are simple but there are heaps and heaps of rules to learn. Every so often, I learn something knew about cricket's rules etc and I have been watching, reading, playing and listening to cricket for about six years. I love rugby as well but even that is pretty complicated.

I disagree, everything in the sporting world is a competition. I could have just as easily chosen to play rugby or league as my main passion.
 
Well then, perhaps you should state your point more clearly; it really does not hold together!

Your first paragraph asks for the thoughts of others but your replies only consider your own.

You state in your second paragraph that there is little competitiveness other than in the top 8 teams but then you say in your last post that "everything in the sporting world is a competition". You cannot have it both ways. ;) Even if you do believe that everything in the sporting world is a competition, you need to accept that this is your own opinion and others may not subscribe. You may only be interested in a sport because of the 'competition' but there are others who are attracted by the skill and a certain camaraderie. As for the need to 'hook' a player into a sport, that is no competition. Most people in sport will agree that it does not matter what sport a young person gets 'hooked' into, as long as they are active... including dance!

Your third paragraph is even more confusing. What are you getting at? How do you believe sport travels the World. It was the Welsh who took rugby to Argentina and at the start of the sport in the country, only the Welsh who played it. This is natural! It was the English who took cricket to the sub-continent and at the start it was only the English who played it there. So, does it not make sense that somebody needs to take cricket to Canada and until the Canadians take up the sport, the pioneers are the only ones who will play it. Taking this subject further, what makes a Canadian Canadian? I really do not understand the mentality of the antipodeans that you need to be indigenous to play for your country, or even to be considered a citizen of that country... I take it, you yourself are Maori. Have you thought how cricket arrived in your country and who were the first players? I have been involved with both rugby and cricket in Canada and fail to see the significance of your statement.

Going back to your first post, what actually do you want thoughts on because this is sounding more political than sporting? Do you want to know why rugby is more followed, or do you want to start a discussion about how funds are distributed? If it is the latter, where do you believe the failings are?
 
Liz Ward said:
Well then, perhaps you should state your point more clearly; it really does not hold together!

Your first paragraph asks for the thoughts of others but your replies only consider your own.

You state in your second paragraph that there is little competitiveness other than in the top 8 teams but then you say in your last post that "everything in the sporting world is a competition". You cannot have it both ways. ;) Even if you do believe that everything in the sporting world is a competition, you need to accept that this is your own opinion and others may not subscribe. You may only be interested in a sport because of the 'competition' but there are others who are attracted by the skill and a certain camaraderie. As for the need to 'hook' a player into a sport, that is no competition. Most people in sport will agree that it does not matter what sport a young person gets 'hooked' into, as long as they are active... including dance!

Your third paragraph is even more confusing. What are you getting at? How do you believe sport travels the World. It was the Welsh who took rugby to Argentina and at the start of the sport in the country, only the Welsh who played it. This is natural! It was the English who took cricket to the sub-continent and at the start it was only the English who played it there. So, does it not make sense that somebody needs to take cricket to Canada and until the Canadians take up the sport, the pioneers are the only ones who will play it. Taking this subject further, what makes a Canadian Canadian? I really do not understand the mentality of the antipodeans that you need to be indigenous to play for your country, or even to be considered a citizen of that country... I take it, you yourself are Maori. Have you thought how cricket arrived in your country and who were the first players? I have been involved with both rugby and cricket in Canada and fail to see the significance of your statement.

Going back to your first post, what actually do you want thoughts on because this is sounding more political than sporting? Do you want to know why rugby is more followed, or do you want to start a discussion about how funds are distributed? If it is the latter, where do you believe the failings are?
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No I am not Maori, I am New Zealand European. I apologize if my writing has been confusing, that definitely was not the intention. My comment about Canadian cricket and rugby was trying to put across that Canada like many associate nations, are not producing many young cricketers and they are relying on players that didn't quite make it in other countries to play for them.

I was not meaning to sound racist again I apologize, I agree with you about sport being spread across the world through other nationalities, that is awesome, in fact once I'm older enough, I would love to coach in a country like Canada.

My discussion was aimed at the funding side of things, I wanted other people's inputs because I am not totally sure about it myself. I've never been to Canada so I certainly don't have all the answers, you would have a much better idea of how cricket and rugby works in Canada.

I am surprised that most of the associate players in Canada and Netherlands (two of the higher ranked associates) aren't producing enough 'home grown' cricketers and they are having to rely on players from other countries to play for them. The two Sri Lankan sounding 'named' players in the Canadian side are as Canadian as anyone. I would just love to see, cricket becoming a really popular sport in countries like Canada ie appealling to a good majority of the public.

I hope that's cleared a few things up :)
 
Ah! That is so much clearer.

I think you may expect too much from sport in its infancy. Cricket has been popular in New Zealand for the whole of your life time and more, whether you became interested in it or not, it has always been an option for you, as in the UK, although it is almost a minority sport here. ;)

This is not the case in Canada; a country divided by many cultures. Rugby is also in its infancy in Canada but at least the French play rugby, so two cultures at least are interested. Canada does not lend itself to cricket and the window of opportunity for play is, comparatively, very narrow. However, they are very serious about their training, unfortunately, there is little home grown knowledge for obvious reasons.

This, however, is excellent from your point of view. If you, indeed, wish to coach somewhere like Canada, you could make a huge difference; there is no better way to improve the situation. :D
 
Liz Ward said:
Ah! That is so much clearer.
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Yay! :p

I think you may expect too much from sport in its infancy. Cricket has been popular in New Zealand for the whole of your life time and more, whether you became interested in it or not, it has always been an option for you, as in the UK, although it is almost a minority sport here. ;)
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True, but that will change one day soon. With people like yourself's help of course :p

This is not the case in Canada; a country divided by many cultures. Rugby is also in its infancy in Canada but at least the French play rugby, so two cultures at least are interested. Canada does not lend itself to cricket and the window of opportunity for play is, comparatively, very narrow. However, they are very serious about their training, unfortunately, there is little home grown knowledge for obvious reasons.
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Good to hear that they are good trainers, getting some world class players into their domestic scene would help a lot.

A question, what is the domestic scene in Canada like?

This, however, is excellent from your point of view. If you, indeed, wish to coach somewhere like Canada, you could make a huge difference; there is no better way to improve the situation. :D
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Indeed, maybe in a few years time. I am 16 after all :p
 
Domestic scene in Canada is improving but it has a long way to go. The great thing is that more and more schools are joining the associations and this is where success lies.

Of course, there are issues with the size of the country; the few teams are very widely scattered!

Take a look at Alberta's last Annual Report:

http://www.ascacricket.com/Pub2010_FINAL - 8.75x11.25.pdf

I have been, intentionally, cruel to you fbc. I have read quite a few of your posts and you have a very bright future... just keep focused! I would like to see you make a difference one day... you have the potential to, as long as you are not led astray. ;)
 
Liz Ward said:
Domestic scene in Canada is improving but it has a long way to go. The great thing is that more and more schools are joining the associations and this is where success lies.

Of course, there are issues with the size of the country; the few teams are very widely scattered!

Take a look at Alberta's last Annual Report:

http://www.ascacricket.com/Pub2010_FINAL - 8.75x11.25.pdf
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Lot's of positive things, good to hear! Thanks for the read :)

I have been, intentionally, cruel to you fbc. I have read quite a few of your posts and you have a very bright future... just keep focused! I would like to see you make a difference one day... you have the potential to, as long as you are not led astray. ;)
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Thank you, that means a lot. :) The main reason I have been looking for a good cricket forum with people I can learn from is that if I am going to achieve the goals I have set myself in life, I know I need to keep focused as you say and listen to other people's advice. Even through the winter, like now. I need to constantly practice and as Shane Warne said, practice correctly. It's hard to practice correctly if your not around people who are 1) leg spinners 2) been to the top level. That is why this forum is great for my development as a cricketer. I go to a secondary school where cricket is right at the bottom as far as interest goes so all the coaching I get is basically through my club, Parnell Cricket Club. Last year, I was coached by Frankyln Rose (ex West Indian international Fast Bowler) and Ian Trott (Jonathon Trott's father) but neither of them were leg spinners.

Wow, I think I'm over talking now
 
That is very interesting!

I understand how hard it can be without the 'right' people around, but it is not impossible. TBH, you are better off without a spinner, unless that spinner really understands you. A good coach can help enormously, even if they are not spinners. Spinners are not made, they are born! Take advice, but to reach your goals, it must come from within. You need to learn to filter... do not dwell on what is not possible nor what you cannot change. Work on the positives, including your mindset, and filter everything else out. I have faith in you, have faith in yourself :D
 
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