My New Pace Bowling Action

[Boris]

My New Pace Bowling Action

i am primarily an off spin bowler (and a pretty good one if i say so myself ) but i used to be able to tie down an end with pace for a couple of overs, being an accurate line and length bowler. i only bowled i ever bowled a few of these overs but they were generally fairly important in the grand scheme of things and i also never really got any wickets. i was considered about a medium pace and i would bowl especially when the pitch wasnt helping or i was having an bad spinning day.
a little time ago (i was trying to post these videos ages ago but never got around to it) though, in the nets i was mucking around a little and discovered an action that i felt very comfortable with and i was told that it made my bowling one of the fastest in the comp. i dont have as much accuracy and no where near as much consistency run wise, but i now open the bowling usually for a quick 3-4 over spell where im told to knock guys heads and toes off and not worry about runs. so that i do and i got 5 pace wickets in 6 games and about 5.5 r.p.o. (better then my other pace figures of 3 wickets in 13 games, but very little runs). i also managed to injure two batsman (oops ) and one went off and the other got out next over. so i call them two more wickets. i trouble batsman a lot and dont let them get set.

anyways that is just the story behind this action and why i persist with it. i have another thread here called 'increase aggressiveness' that also highlights this. i have only managed to get two videos from front on, but if you want side on i will try and get that very soon as well. i was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts and ideas on improvement or changing my action to make it better, considering im a full out attacking bowler now.

(these videos arent at quite full pace due to my injured shoulder, but they are close enough)

Video 1

Video 2

also tips on short pitched bowling would help lots, i can get the ball about 3/4 of a metre above a batsmans head at a quick pace, but when targeting the head (hehe) i generally drag the ball towards off accidentally (unless its a leftie who i love bowling to).

 

[akkers]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Boris, I am no expert but I think you should keep your arms tucked in as much as possible and legs/feet going towards the target. At the moment they look a bit wobbly.

Also I notice that your bowling hand goes way back behind your body, in fact it goes almost 90 degrees to your body and then produces a slinging action (a la Malinga).

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Boris, I am no expert but I think you should keep your arms tucked in as much as possible and legs/feet going towards the target. At the moment they look a bit wobbly.

Also I notice that your bowling hand goes way back behind your body, in fact it goes almost 90 degrees to your body and then produces a slinging action (a la Malinga).

i think it almost purely the slinging action that produces the speed that im getting. i have two different actions now that i both use and that one feels much better and more natural to me. i tilt my head a long way back to make my bowling arm as vertical as possible while doing it though. i do tend to drag the ball a little bit as well and thats something that i will work on, i dont want to change my action completely just work on this one as its the one that gets the wickets.

i have to keep my front leg bent to ensure that the twisting of my body from side on to front on doesnt damage my knee as it did when i first started bowling like this. saying that though it is still hurting it slightly and im not sure it is doing it good. i think thats what you mean by the wobbliness.

what do you mean by arms tucked in?

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Boris, a couple of things:

Firstly, think tall! Stay as tall as you can throughout the action.

Secondly, I would like to see the second knee lift... you kind of 'drag' the front foot through. I also need you to get into position before this foot hits the ground.

 

[doctortran]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Hi.

I'm new to posting on bigcricket. I joined a while back to read some of the leg spin posts. Anyway - I was just looking at these forums and your post.

I am no fast bowler but I think I may be able to give you some advice.

First - Michael Holding. I was watching two of his youtube videos. The first where he demolished England with yorkers, and the second - his amazingly fast spell to Geoffrey Boycott. The former video demonstrates something amazing.

YouTube - Michael Holding v England (Oval 1976 )

Look at him bowl Balderstone first, then bowl Tony Greig. The first has huge knee lift as Liz talks about. I found the second delivery quite odd, quite different... he hardly moves his second knee as much.

The point? These two deliveries describe two perfect techniques. They also describe one that is more active, and the other slightly lazier. Hence the bare minimum to bowling fast and accurate regarding second knee work.... Holding is always looking to push that second knee forward and forcefully.... as shown in all three wickets

Need for dramatisation? Check out any really quick baseball pitcher. Papelbon, Bard... I like the Red Sox. Look at the huge leg drive they need to push from zero initial speed to 100 mph. It's all in the 2nd leg/knee drive that's always pushing forward violently, and then unconsciously and naturally pulling wide and away. Always think of pushing your second knee forward VIOLENTLY!

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

i am yet to try this but when i act out my delivery i have noticed that it feels very awkward to try and drive my knee through. i find it puts me off balance. my run up is very slow, only a light jog and my action is all upper body so trying to force momentum that isnt there makes it a bit hard. i havent tried it at full speed though so i might be wrong there. i am a baseballer myself and i was the second pitcher for my old team and i know what your talking about with knee drive, i went from an average speed to a fast pitcher with some coaching. also helped my throwing from my primary fielding position at short stop and if i can say so myself i now have a monster arm that our wicket keeper complains about.

i am not completely sure what you mean liz. are you talking about my left foot when following through after my right knee drives up? so you mean that knee to lift up as well? also about the standing tall thing, i try to but i find if i dont move my head and shoulders back then my follow through goes almost perpendicular to the stumps with a very round arm action. maybe thats alright but i didnt think it would help. i use that in indoor cricket because my follow through is almost non existent and dies very quickly and i can back stump easier, but its not good for normal cricket. i think thats what you are referring to.

thanks for looking at this too.

 

[doctortran]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

my run up is very slow, only a light jog and my action is all upper body so trying to force momentum that isnt there makes it a bit hard.

All in the days work of the bowler's craft. It's all trial and error, and generally not science engineering based design. There are something sfor you body that will work, and will not, as you probably already know. The thing is to try and find what is more natural, and trying to get your action that feels natural while moving slowly towards the fundamentals of fast bowling... or at these the physiology that causes fast bowling.

Also I was just thinking about your short bowling. Your arm is not upright so the circle that your arm makes is different to most others. This is basic physics, but i'll talk about it anyway....

If you draw a circle. Then a line from the centre of the circle to the highest point of the circle. Then draw a horizontal line from where that line and the circle intersect. That horizontal line you drew was your horizontal velocity. This line is a "tangent" to the circle. You draw a tangent on any other part of the circle and it doesn't go horizontal. So the fastest, most efficient part of your arm action is always at the highest point of the circle your arm makes! So obviously when you bowl short you have to put more effort in for the same speed on the radar because it is less efficient... you have speed going down as well us across.

This is fine for an orthodox bowler, but for your arm it's quite different. Your arm goes from behind your body to wide of your head and then ending at your waist. If you draw a circle to contain all three points you can see the circle is skewed to the right. Naturally then on the path of your arm, a little lower than your optimum point your short ball release actually has off-side movement. Hence, in a long winded explanation, your short ball is always going off-side.

Further dramatisation: You pitch side-arm in baseball to a righty. If you release slightly before your optimum it goes inside. You release slightly after your optimum it goes outside. To bowl short with your action you are naturally releasing it later, and so slightly after your optimum hence going left, outside, or to the off-side to a right-handed bat.

Your short ball will probably have to have a slightly different bowling action... i.e. your arm will have to take a different path from normal. It may have to go slightly straighter or alternatively your bowling arm may have to end in a different position, or may have to even go more side arm. That however is for you to craft, and for a coach to advise you on.... but that is the projectile motion reason for why your short balls are going towards off, or the heads of left handed batsman.

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

All in the days work of the bowler's craft. It's all trial and error, and generally not science engineering based design. There are something sfor you body that will work, and will not, as you probably already know. The thing is to try and find what is more natural, and trying to get your action that feels natural while moving slowly towards the fundamentals of fast bowling... or at these the physiology that causes fast bowling.

Also I was just thinking about your short bowling. Your arm is not upright so the circle that your arm makes is different to most others. This is basic physics, but i'll talk about it anyway....

If you draw a circle. Then a line from the centre of the circle to the highest point of the circle. Then draw a horizontal line from where that line and the circle intersect. That horizontal line you drew was your horizontal velocity. This line is a "tangent" to the circle. You draw a tangent on any other part of the circle and it doesn't go horizontal. So the fastest, most efficient part of your arm action is always at the highest point of the circle your arm makes! So obviously when you bowl short you have to put more effort in for the same speed on the radar because it is less efficient... you have speed going down as well us across.

This is fine for an orthodox bowler, but for your arm it's quite different. Your arm goes from behind your body to wide of your head and then ending at your waist. If you draw a circle to contain all three points you can see the circle is skewed to the right. Naturally then on the path of your arm, a little lower than your optimum point your short ball release actually has off-side movement. Hence, in a long winded explanation, your short ball is always going off-side.

Further dramatisation: You pitch side-arm in baseball to a righty. If you release slightly before your optimum it goes inside. You release slightly after your optimum it goes outside. To bowl short with your action you are naturally releasing it later, and so slightly after your optimum hence going left, outside, or to the off-side to a right-handed bat.

Your short ball will probably have to have a slightly different bowling action... i.e. your arm will have to take a different path from normal. It may have to go slightly straighter or alternatively your bowling arm may have to end in a different position, or may have to even go more side arm. That however is for you to craft, and for a coach to advise you on.... but that is the projectile motion reason for why your short balls are going towards off, or the heads of left handed batsman.

i was pretty confident that my action led to that direction, the vector path of the ball is completely wrong for the most efficient way of getting the ball to the target, its just that my other 'old' more conventional action (i should probably post a video of that too i suppose) didnt have the pace to make a bouncer effective, just got pulled for four. you explanation makes it a lot clearer though with the use of tangents and chords.

i was looking for points to aim at more so then changing my action (as i kinda do anyway for the bouncer, i get more upright increasing that drag effect). normally with a normal point of delivery and a vertical arm action you would aim just outside and on off stump at a short length, and the ball will continue towards the batsmans body, or aim outside off stump for one outside the body or outside leg for one to a left hander and so on (coming over the wicket). its just that with this rounder action and if i were to release at the same point in time it makes it difficult to pinpoint a position on the pitch to allow for that drag. i now compensate for it by subconsciously aiming for leg stump when aiming for off stump (not very accurately though), but at a short length the difference is increased and i cannot judge it. for the point of this though just say my accuracy is perfect, where would i aim with the round arm action for a vicious bouncer? if you arent sure of what i mean i can draw a picture to make it clearer.

 

[doctortran]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Demonstration: YouTube - Malinga's searing throat ball gets Pietersen

Again I am no expert in fast bowling, let alone Malinga's delivery stride. However I do understand where you are coming from - I experimented with this sort of bowling action a few years back.

The set up delivery..... though your arm does a lot of the work, your aim can be controlled by your chest. Though you naturally go away you can fool the batsman, and yourself that you are keeping the same action.... but actually slightly change it using your chest. Malinga in this first delivery really tries to get his chest moving towards where he is trying to bowl. DANGEROUS. No bowling coach will tell you to go side-on with legs and chest and then move to chest front on..... that will cause back injuries. I see you do kind of do it.... but the energy your chest makes toward the camera is only for a split second and then going toward the off side. Pause it at 0:27..... think about emphasizing your chest in that position then continue your bowling stride.... just an extra millisecond and you have off stump.

Malinga goes in for the kill..... pause it at 0:38. His chest is completely towards the batsman and trying to compensate for his natural away movement. In this case it is the natural away movement that gets the glove to the keeper.... if it was at his head he many have hit flush on the glove and into vacant space. It's all in the chest.

Summary: Aim where you want. Aim to leg if you want to get it to off stump if you want. If that's naturally the case then I don't see why it would differ for a bouncer..... however slight difference in pitch will cause large variations at the batsman with your action... as you said. However you can make yourself more accurate through your chest. It's like writing.... imagine each up stroke is away from your body, and each down stroke is toward your body and you have stable good looking handwriting. Imagine all the velocity vector is coming from your chest and if you point it Pietersen's head you may just dismiss him on a slow pitch in Sri Lanka.

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

ah yes, i get you.

i think that will work well, im not really able to try it right now due to a shoulder injury and soreness from some other strains right now but i shall try it as soon as i can. i think that will work though, seems reasonable enough.

even if you arent an expert i see no reason why you cant help others... stick around and keep posting, thankyou for looking at mine in particular. liz will definitely be of help too as she always is.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

i am not completely sure what you mean liz. are you talking about my left foot when following through after my right knee drives up? so you mean that knee to lift up as well? also about the standing tall thing, i try to but i find if i dont move my head and shoulders back then my follow through goes almost perpendicular to the stumps with a very round arm action. maybe thats alright but i didnt think it would help. i use that in indoor cricket because my follow through is almost non existent and dies very quickly and i can back stump easier, but its not good for normal cricket. i think thats what you are referring to.

There is so much I like about your action Boris but there are a few things that need looking at.

I think the best way to go is to take it back to basics and get it right before your season starts again; walk through your action, preferably in front of a mirror to begin with... two if you have them, one in front of you and a second placed to the right of you.

Take a step forward with your right foot (your first knee lift) place it perpendicular to the [imagined] wicket.

Now lift your left knee (your second knee lift) and at this point, although the left knee and foot are facing towards the [imagined] batsman or first mirror, your shoulders, hips and right foot are facing the second mirror. The second mirror is there for you to check this... especially the hips.

Now, place your left foot down, parallel to the wicket, and quickly drive your right hip round, (your third knee lift), immediately followed by your chest so you are now facing the first mirror. You should not swivel on your foot. Walk straight towards the first mirror.

Do this over and over again until you can do it without thinking, then introduce the arms. Make sure you are always travelling towards the first mirror in a straight line.

Keep us updated and we will help progress this action as you go along.

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

very good advice, liz. thanks for taking the time.

i am finding it hard to keep my front foot from not swivelling. i have noticed it moves and in the video you can see my front leg rotate slightly. that knee also hurts a little after bowling for a while, so that is quite obviously the problem. i am finding that if i keep my front foot stationery my knee has to take all of the rotation though. the only thing i can think of is that my hips are swinging around too far past my front leg.

and with doing what you said i know have back foot drag. that is a good thing is it not? except for wrecking my dang shoes...

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

By swivelling on your foot, you are wearing the hyaline cartilage at the ends of the femur and tibia. This cannot regenerate, once gone, it is gone for good. You are at risk of suffering from osteoarthritis far too soon.

Rotation should take place at the hip... get your foot in position by rotating the hip, BEFORE it hits the ground. Then you rotate [again at the hip] to get the body facing the batsman. Make sure EVERYTHING is facing forwards at this point... no deviation whatsoever left or right.

As the right hip is thrusted forward, your foot should be ready to drive forward.

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

ah yes, i get it. my timing was a little out and i was twisting at the wrong time. just had a run through of that outside in the dark and cold and it actually feels a lot better now, just those few small adjustments. it feels like im bowling faster and things are moving more smoothly.

i should probably mention a problem im having with my back as well. its only minor and these adjustments may have fixed it anyway, but after a longer session of bowling, the next day the muscle or muscle group that runs down the right side of my back, parallel to the spine and towards the top of the back feels stiff and sore, like i have pulled the muscles there. it seems to be happening everytime now, and happens with my throwing too. i used to play baseball and had a coach help me very closely with my throwing and we went down to the smallest of details and my throw felt extremely good and i could throw at about 120-130 kph all day without feeling the slightest bit sore afterwards. but that was a couple of years ago and my technique seems to be slipping and im doing it with my throwing as well. my old coach said i was throwing with enough force to do very bad damage to myself if i did it wrong. by any chance do you happen to do the same with throwing techniques as bowling actions? i need to pick up on some very small details to stop my back being hurt... if my technique gets any worse i could do myself damage.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

Players take throwing for granted far too often, it actually is quite violent and you are right, can cause extreme injury if performed incorrectly.

You really do need to warm up thoroughly before playing and training. It sounds like your issues are with the erector spinae, probably the longissimus and iliocostalis. Work them and try to get a massage but more importantly, warm up.


As you know, there are six phases to throwing and malfunction can occur in any one of them and can be caused by many factors. I could try to help you but it will be no substitute to having somebody actually with you whilst you throw. Do you have a good throwing coach where you are?

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

its always better to have a one on one coach. where i am we have a good bowling coach and a good batting coach and some general ones, but nobody remotely specialising in fielding. i myself do all the fielding work as captain as my team and we do lots of drills and i try to help them with just general stuff but there are some pretty bad throwers and im nowhere near good enough to help them improve. we could probably bring one in from somewhere but that requires money, which unfortunately means fundraising. i played baseball in brisbane, a good 200km from here and 150 from the cricket club. not too easy to get to im afraid. but they have coaches for everything and i may just be able to get in contact with my old fielding coach.

someone should be paying you for all the stuff you do on the internet to help the budding cricketers worldwide.

 

[Liz Ward]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

You bring up a very interesting point Boris. Why do we not have coaches for everything in cricket? Is it because cricketers do not take their sport seriously?

Ian Pont has been pushing for this for years. Once a coach qualifies at Level II, they should be able to specialise and take further qualifications in say, fast bowling, spin, wicket keeping, throwing etc. Then the player knows what they are getting, especially if they are paying.

To be honest, specialists are out there but unfortunately, they do not come out of cricket but science, such as biomechanists... and we know about all the bad press we are getting from the trads at the moment . The problem is, other than the coaches registered on this site [and similar], in general, coaches believe as they are Level II, they know everything and would not even consider bringing a specialist in.

someone should be paying you for all the stuff you do on the internet to help the budding cricketers worldwide.

I like you

 

[Boris]

Re: My New Pace Bowling Action

i think that fielding should have as much importance as batting and bowling. if we video our bowling action and pull it to pieces to help get more wickets, then why not video and thoroughly analyse our full stretch dives in the slip cordon to help us get more wickets. that way i may not have injured my shoulder... a large amount, i dare say the most in cricket, of injuries happen while fielding. just think of how much of an asset a jonty rhodes or an andrew symonds was to a cricket team. i think its time that all coaches take fielding more seriously. our coach just tells us to do net sessions, and then only concentrates on batting, not to take anything away from the very good man though.

anyways a little off topic there. i shall keep you posted on my progress with my action.