I genuinely have no idea what causes it. The friction is just a guess.
Off Spinning Guide
- Thread starter MrOffBreaks
- Start date
I genuinely have no idea what causes it. The friction is just a guess.
Also a website I’ve found really good for learning off spin is pitchvision.
They have tons of articles on everything cricket and the technical side.
Here’s one of off spin: https://www.pitchvision.com/how-finger-spin-can-push-rpm-into-the-red
They have tons of articles on everything cricket and the technical side.
Here’s one of off spin: https://www.pitchvision.com/how-finger-spin-can-push-rpm-into-the-red
EdSpeedCricket
New Member
PitchVision is a great website. Sometimes I find the articles just brush the surface on a lot of topics and leaving me wanting MOOOORE KNOWLEDGE!
Played a 20 over match last night... Bowled 3 overs for 16 and 1 wicket (there was also a dropped catch and a not given plumb LBW decision (how it goes))...
And I did something really weird. I decided before the match I would play around with my run up. THEN during the match I started doing stuff with my run up that I have never really practised to mixed results. That then knocked my confidence a bit and I resorted to firing in arm balls (tut tut). The pitch wasn't doing anything so it wasn't a bad option. I was bowling well, the team was pressuring the captain to give me a fourth over... But alas, taken off! The opposing team after the match were very complimentary and also said they would've kept me on for a fourth and were struggling to get me away.
After the match when a couple of the boys were having a beer I had to go back down to the nets and do an extra 15 minutes. But what I did there was assess what was going wrong in the match, tried a few different things and ultimately decided my original action was all good and I should stick with it! What I was doing wrong was letting the match situation affect me. I realised that I was focussed at the start of my run up but due to thinking about the run up I wasn't 100% focussing on where I wanted to pitch the ball and therefore probably wasn't following through wholly towards my target. I find if I'm not concentrating on where I want the ball to pitch then I end up bowling more towards leg than I would like. I also find if I force my action and try too hard then I bowl more down leg. Therefore, when that is happening I feel like I now have the tool kit to correct it. Generally, my first go to is to try and relax, breathe, take a moment to get myself together and then slow down the action... Push off the back foot, get up on my toes on the front foot and then follow through the action.
What I find interesting is how as you learn more your brain comes up with ideas/ways in which you think you can bowl better. If you don't try new things and develop then you wont progress. Also, when you try something new, if it works then great but if not then at least you can cross it off your list as a misconception or something that doesn't work for you.
Played a 20 over match last night... Bowled 3 overs for 16 and 1 wicket (there was also a dropped catch and a not given plumb LBW decision (how it goes))...
And I did something really weird. I decided before the match I would play around with my run up. THEN during the match I started doing stuff with my run up that I have never really practised to mixed results. That then knocked my confidence a bit and I resorted to firing in arm balls (tut tut). The pitch wasn't doing anything so it wasn't a bad option. I was bowling well, the team was pressuring the captain to give me a fourth over... But alas, taken off! The opposing team after the match were very complimentary and also said they would've kept me on for a fourth and were struggling to get me away.
After the match when a couple of the boys were having a beer I had to go back down to the nets and do an extra 15 minutes. But what I did there was assess what was going wrong in the match, tried a few different things and ultimately decided my original action was all good and I should stick with it! What I was doing wrong was letting the match situation affect me. I realised that I was focussed at the start of my run up but due to thinking about the run up I wasn't 100% focussing on where I wanted to pitch the ball and therefore probably wasn't following through wholly towards my target. I find if I'm not concentrating on where I want the ball to pitch then I end up bowling more towards leg than I would like. I also find if I force my action and try too hard then I bowl more down leg. Therefore, when that is happening I feel like I now have the tool kit to correct it. Generally, my first go to is to try and relax, breathe, take a moment to get myself together and then slow down the action... Push off the back foot, get up on my toes on the front foot and then follow through the action.
What I find interesting is how as you learn more your brain comes up with ideas/ways in which you think you can bowl better. If you don't try new things and develop then you wont progress. Also, when you try something new, if it works then great but if not then at least you can cross it off your list as a misconception or something that doesn't work for you.
Yeah I find it’s great “food for thought” for improving stuff. It gives me something to think about and tinker around with.
While flighting the ball up and trying to do the batsman in fight is great test match bowling, you were definitely in the right to fire the ball in on a flat pitch in a 20 over match. Might be harder to get the batsman out but it’s also harder to score off.
Also I’ve found when I’m actually focusing on trying to get a batsman out and not just hyper focused on landing it on 1 spot on the pitch I bowl much better. It’d be because I’m not hyper analysing my action and all that, I’m just focused on getting out a batsman, so I’m not all tensed up I’m just having a blast analysing a batsman and trying to read and out think him.
It means I’m shit at just bowling at a set of stumps, it feels like such an empty exercise, which it is tbf. But yeah I bowl better when I actually have a batsman to punish me when I bowl a bad ball and let me know when I’ve bowled a good one. I also just love the battle of bowling off spin and it definitely feels emptier without batsmen there. Even though I like bowling alone to tinker with my action.
Sometimes I wish I was either left handed or the majority of batsmen were left handed.
Just went down to the nets with a bloke around my age from my club and he brought his left handed friend.
My friend, a bowler and right handed batsman, slogged me with the spin the whole time regardless of where I pitched it. Got him with a couple of top edges and caught at mid ons. It works but it sucks to bowl to and there’s no real battle.
Then bowled to his left handed, higher grade specialist batsman. Got him caught at slip 2-3 times, bowled him one from around the wicket that was a little faster on a good length, on middle and leg and it spun back over middle and off. Again, would love to play on turf too. Was cramping him up with the odd arm ball and effectively countered him coming down the track.
It’s so much more fun to bowl off spin to left handers.
Just went down to the nets with a bloke around my age from my club and he brought his left handed friend.
My friend, a bowler and right handed batsman, slogged me with the spin the whole time regardless of where I pitched it. Got him with a couple of top edges and caught at mid ons. It works but it sucks to bowl to and there’s no real battle.
Then bowled to his left handed, higher grade specialist batsman. Got him caught at slip 2-3 times, bowled him one from around the wicket that was a little faster on a good length, on middle and leg and it spun back over middle and off. Again, would love to play on turf too. Was cramping him up with the odd arm ball and effectively countered him coming down the track.
It’s so much more fun to bowl off spin to left handers.
Just started preseason, trying to get some consistency back, the slightly damp Astro makes the balls wet and I really struggle to adjust to the slightly heavier and slippery balls. I need to buy a new one for our indoor practice.
Got a net in yesterday, wasn’t the best but I’m still trying to get my mojo back.
Got 2 recordings to show a new variation im trying to bowl. Can’t upload them from my phone though so I’ll have to do it later.
Basically I bowl it with the exact same grip and wrist position. Except instead of running my index finger up and over the ball, I run my middle finger up the front of the ball and push out the other side of my hand to my stock ball. It comes out with the same seam position as an off break and is actually very well disguised. Megan I bowl my off break my index finger and thumb are pointing upwards at release, and when I bowl the variation my index and middle finger are pointing up. So the batsman has to be VERY observant of my hand to notice the variation.
I have quite a fast hand action as well so it’s hard to see it leaving the front of my hand.
Got a net in yesterday, wasn’t the best but I’m still trying to get my mojo back.
Got 2 recordings to show a new variation im trying to bowl. Can’t upload them from my phone though so I’ll have to do it later.
Basically I bowl it with the exact same grip and wrist position. Except instead of running my index finger up and over the ball, I run my middle finger up the front of the ball and push out the other side of my hand to my stock ball. It comes out with the same seam position as an off break and is actually very well disguised. Megan I bowl my off break my index finger and thumb are pointing upwards at release, and when I bowl the variation my index and middle finger are pointing up. So the batsman has to be VERY observant of my hand to notice the variation.
I have quite a fast hand action as well so it’s hard to see it leaving the front of my hand.
Heres the clips, ignore the plant lol, I usually use different nets but they're connected to a school so I cant use them during school hours
Stock off-break (bit too straight):
View attachment IMG_6229.MOV
Variation:
View attachment Variation.MOV
EdSpeedCricket
New Member
That's a nice variation, I can't pick up anything in the action or point of release. The ball seems to stay very straight, like an arm ball! Have you found any benefits to this delivery over an arm ball? After watching it quite a few times the variation seems to come out flatter than your stock ball.
The way you described the delivery of the ball through running your third finger over the ball shouldn't you be able to get it to turn the other way? I've messed around with this a bit and occasionally I can get it to turn the other way but in no way consistently. Usually it stays straight like yours in the video.
I have also been playing around with the Carrom Ball but I can't bowl it consistently. I've messed around with some grips and occasionally I can deliver the ball how I feel it should be delivered but it just seems to generally stay straight and not turn.
The way you described the delivery of the ball through running your third finger over the ball shouldn't you be able to get it to turn the other way? I've messed around with this a bit and occasionally I can get it to turn the other way but in no way consistently. Usually it stays straight like yours in the video.
I have also been playing around with the Carrom Ball but I can't bowl it consistently. I've messed around with some grips and occasionally I can deliver the ball how I feel it should be delivered but it just seems to generally stay straight and not turn.
I’ve found it tends to spin a bit anyway on more turning pitches. But I bowl it like that because it disguises it much better than having my palm face the batsman, where it just looks like I’m bowling a legbreak. Also it’s been staying noticeably lower with the back spin I get on it so I’d honestly rather that.
But yeah I do sometimes just bowl it with side spin. I’m more of a fan of more subtle changes like in bounce, drift and dip than I am in just a brute ball that spins the other way. I feel like it’s less likely to get someone out tbh. It’s also easier to land when I bowl it with backspin.
I find it very handy if a batsman is sitting back to me or just trying to cut me every ball. Because it swings in a bit and stays low it’s a very dangerous ball to cut. I also use an arm ball though that I get to swing away and is probably just as well disguised, easier to bowl too.
The arm ball is probably better for catching an edge and stuff like that. Also probably just a better variation because it moves the other way to my off break, very handy if someone is just smacking me with the spin, I’ve gotten quite a few mis hits/top edges with it.
Are you potentially letting your hand run down the back a bit when you bowl it so it comes out closer to a flying saucer kinda seam. I think I did that for a bit, it’s just a feel thing. I’m
Im in some pretty good bowling from at the moment. My action has really come together and I’m get plenty of revs on the ball with a great trajectory.
I think the catalyst was a drill I tried where I tied a piece of rope 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down the pitch from the bowling crease at about my wrist level at the top of my bowling action. I made myself bowl over that while trying to land it on a length and as quickly as possible. It was unbelievably good for getting me to find primarily my ideal flight and pace, but it also slightly corrected my release point (more revs).
Had a practice match and took 2-15(3) on synthetic. One caught at deep square and the other at point off an outside edged drive. Frustrating part was beating a bloke through the gate 3 times in an over but the ball just going over the stumps by a cm because it’s synthetic.
First official game this weekend though and it’ll be my 2nd game ever on turf. Hope I can take a few poles.
I think the catalyst was a drill I tried where I tied a piece of rope 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down the pitch from the bowling crease at about my wrist level at the top of my bowling action. I made myself bowl over that while trying to land it on a length and as quickly as possible. It was unbelievably good for getting me to find primarily my ideal flight and pace, but it also slightly corrected my release point (more revs).
Had a practice match and took 2-15(3) on synthetic. One caught at deep square and the other at point off an outside edged drive. Frustrating part was beating a bloke through the gate 3 times in an over but the ball just going over the stumps by a cm because it’s synthetic.
First official game this weekend though and it’ll be my 2nd game ever on turf. Hope I can take a few poles.
EdSpeedCricket
New Member
I'm going to continue to work on it! Good to be talking about spin again... We ended up going from May to late September! (yes in England). This was due to a really poor summer of weather. This ultimately was detrimental to my confidence as the pitches were boggy and sticky. I struggle to bat at the best of times but I literally couldn't get any form together. That meant I kept changing things from week to week until ultimately my confidence was really low. However, from a bowling perspective I learnt a lot more about how to bowl on different pitches and at different lengths. I also learnt alot more about attacking and defensive lines depending on what the batter was doing. I also started to learn about how to bowl in different formats of the game also.
I read that Jack Leach does this a lot also. I have tried this before also. I have found that it really helps while the rope is there but I find back to bad habits once I take the rope away. I probably need to practise this more.
I think I am to be honest! That makes a lot of sense. Again, I think it just needs more practise!
Good luck for your match!
I read that Jack Leach does this a lot also. I have tried this before also. I have found that it really helps while the rope is there but I find back to bad habits once I take the rope away. I probably need to practise this more.
I think I am to be honest! That makes a lot of sense. Again, I think it just needs more practise!
Good luck for your match!
Unlucky with the batting. But that’s great that you managed to diversify your bowling so much.
Thanks for the wishes
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Game Centre for White Knights Baldivis B Grade v SHDCC Senior Men B Grade in Peel Cricket Association Summer 2023/24 season, Round 1
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EdSpeedCricket
New Member
Here's what I've been working on:
*** BOWLING ***
Problem - Bowling too slow
Solution - Use a medium paced run-up. This gave me the energy to get through my action comfortably and follow through while moving my whole body towards the target
Problem - Not getting side on enough when tired
Solution - I am now using a slightly angled run-up. This allows me to put in less energy and stress getting side on and helping me keep balance to therefore go through my action.
Problem - Undercutting on release
Solution - Working on wrist position at release. Make sure your wrist is relaxed. I have done a lot of work on load positions to find a way in which I can load the ball consistently and repeatedly to ensure I am getting a consistent wrist position. Being relaxed and having a loose wrist is the best way I've found.
Problem - Ball slipping out of hand at release
Solution - Use the Graeme Swann grip (first knuckle on spin finger, second knuckle on third finger). Don't hold the ball too tightly and make sure there is a small gap between the ball and the webbing on your second and third fingers. This gives you the best chance of actually spinning the ball. I also rest my thumb on the ball trying to apply as little pressure as possible.
Problem - Not enough Topspin
Solution - Higher bowling arm position on release. Try bowling round arm and notice how you undercut the ball creating the 'flying saucer' or 'ufo' ball. Now bowl with a higher bowling arm and you should see the seam more at 45 degrees. Now see how close to your ear you can bowl with your front arm and you will see even more topspin (seam now between 45 degrees and 90 degrees)
Problem - Can't bowl a Carrom Ball
Solution - Practise, practise, practise... I can now bowl a Carrom Ball but I think it's easy to pick at the moment and has no where near as much pace as my stock ball. Practise continues...
*** BATTING ***
Problem - I'm cr*p
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Keep edging it
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Keep getting hit LBW on inswingers
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Can't hit a 6
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
HarHarHarHaaaaar ...
*** BOWLING ***
Problem - Bowling too slow
Solution - Use a medium paced run-up. This gave me the energy to get through my action comfortably and follow through while moving my whole body towards the target
Problem - Not getting side on enough when tired
Solution - I am now using a slightly angled run-up. This allows me to put in less energy and stress getting side on and helping me keep balance to therefore go through my action.
Problem - Undercutting on release
Solution - Working on wrist position at release. Make sure your wrist is relaxed. I have done a lot of work on load positions to find a way in which I can load the ball consistently and repeatedly to ensure I am getting a consistent wrist position. Being relaxed and having a loose wrist is the best way I've found.
Problem - Ball slipping out of hand at release
Solution - Use the Graeme Swann grip (first knuckle on spin finger, second knuckle on third finger). Don't hold the ball too tightly and make sure there is a small gap between the ball and the webbing on your second and third fingers. This gives you the best chance of actually spinning the ball. I also rest my thumb on the ball trying to apply as little pressure as possible.
Problem - Not enough Topspin
Solution - Higher bowling arm position on release. Try bowling round arm and notice how you undercut the ball creating the 'flying saucer' or 'ufo' ball. Now bowl with a higher bowling arm and you should see the seam more at 45 degrees. Now see how close to your ear you can bowl with your front arm and you will see even more topspin (seam now between 45 degrees and 90 degrees)
Problem - Can't bowl a Carrom Ball
Solution - Practise, practise, practise... I can now bowl a Carrom Ball but I think it's easy to pick at the moment and has no where near as much pace as my stock ball. Practise continues...
*** BATTING ***
Problem - I'm cr*p
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Keep edging it
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Keep getting hit LBW on inswingers
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
Problem - Can't hit a 6
Solution - Keep head still & watch the ball
HarHarHarHaaaaar ...
1. Bowling too slow
-Have had the same issue, I find that just focusing on getting my front arm up as high as I can helped this
-increasing my run up speed made me faster but ruined my revs and control a bit. So I scrapped that.
2. Not side on when tired
-again I have/had this problem, I think I’ve basically just eradicated it through practice
-so if you’re bowling over the wicket do run in from wide of the pitch? I believe that’s what you’re supposed to do. But I’ve actually made my run up go away from the pitch a bit and then back in for the last bit, this allows me to stay consistent when I go around the wicket because I can still do my normal run up without running into the umpire.
3+4+5. These are likely all very closely related and are probably causing each other.
-focus on *spinning up the back of the ball*, this is something I learnt from a short Nathan Lyon masterclass video on YouTube. It’s basically my mantra that I turn to when it’s not coming out right.
-this results in you getting more top spin, and unless you have freaky wrist/shoudler mobility you should still get plenty of side spin on it.
-it’s impossible to undercut it like this
-actually get more turn in most scenarios because it grips better.
Addressing each separately:
3. This is genuinely just mostly what I said before
-although I ver strongly agree that staying relaxed in your action is the way to go, makes you less rigid which naturally makes it easier to flow through and rip the ball and higher speeds
4. I use the Graeme Swann grip and if your hands are big enough to do so you’d be a fool to not use it. (Unless you’re Murali).
-I also rest my thumb on it lightly so it doesn’t fall out haha.
5. I always bowl with my arm as close to 90 degrees as possible, creates the most lenient position for adjusting seam angle for variation. Allows both top and side spin easily. Anything from 12-1 o’clock is good imo (technically 11-12 for you but you get the point)
-again the spinning up the back of the ball helps.
6. Yeah, practice haha.
-the carrom ball is never going to be a highly disguised delivery
-it’s useful for if a batsman is slogging you with the spin (top edges)
-or charging you (stumped)
-if you bowl it well enough it doesn’t matter if they pick it
-but a fast arm is the best way to disguise it, also try locking your wrist so it doesn’t look like a leg break haha.
Batting:
1. Same
-Happens
2. Keep edging it
-get your head towards the ball
-stop falling over to the off side
-sounds like a joke but have a session where leave anything that you think might be missing your stumps, doesn’t matter if you get bowled, get a natural feel for where your off stump is so you stop prodding at shit you don’t need to.
-let the ball hit the bat (not bat to ball) and try get it to bounce straight into the floor when you defend
3. Lbw to inswingers
-stop falling over to the off side
-don’t commit your front foot if you know they’re swinging it in a lot.
4. Can’t hit a 6
-me too
-watching the ball only helps a little there if you are like me and have boy arms.
-us spinners rely on more subtle arts than raw strength
-rotate that strike king
My season has been a mixed bag, but it has been my best season overall.
Averaging 23.5 with the ball. Have overall figures in B grade of 0-123
. In C grade I have 8-75 in C grade 
.
I also played a T20 match with a left arm leggy from the leg spin thread on Sunday and took 3-17(4). Between us we took 5-28 in 8 overs straight after they finished the powerplay 0-52. We won, so that was awesome.
I have had some more opportunities on turf which is awesome, a lot of them were T20s and while I only took 1 wicket in the entire T20 comp, I went at about 5 runs an over, sometimes less, and we’d often take a wicket the over after I come on.
I’ve been far less effective on turf in one day games however, where I’ve figured I bowl too slow and they have too much time to wait on the back foot off of my good length. I worked on it at my training today and it’s coming out at a speed I’m very happy with and also fizzing nicely. Can’t wait to bowl on turf again.
I also batted on turf for the first time on Saturday. I came in at 10, their opening bowler came back on, was bowling fairly fast, I have no idea how to deal with a turf pitch, he bounces me, hits me in the ribs. The bloke starts sledging me and saying he’s going bowl faster. I hook him for 4 the next ball. Next over I get out LBW for one that was probably down leg.
Nice and shithouse, just the way I like it.
Averaging 23.5 with the ball. Have overall figures in B grade of 0-123
. In C grade I have 8-75 in C grade 
.I also played a T20 match with a left arm leggy from the leg spin thread on Sunday and took 3-17(4). Between us we took 5-28 in 8 overs straight after they finished the powerplay 0-52. We won, so that was awesome.
I have had some more opportunities on turf which is awesome, a lot of them were T20s and while I only took 1 wicket in the entire T20 comp, I went at about 5 runs an over, sometimes less, and we’d often take a wicket the over after I come on.
I’ve been far less effective on turf in one day games however, where I’ve figured I bowl too slow and they have too much time to wait on the back foot off of my good length. I worked on it at my training today and it’s coming out at a speed I’m very happy with and also fizzing nicely. Can’t wait to bowl on turf again.
I also batted on turf for the first time on Saturday. I came in at 10, their opening bowler came back on, was bowling fairly fast, I have no idea how to deal with a turf pitch, he bounces me, hits me in the ribs. The bloke starts sledging me and saying he’s going bowl faster. I hook him for 4 the next ball. Next over I get out LBW for one that was probably down leg.
Nice and shithouse, just the way I like it.