Who is out?

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Emerald

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Who is out?

I was watching a test series once when a guy wrote in and asked this question:

Say the batsman hits the ball into the hand of the bowler, then onto the wickets at the non-striker's end on the full. The non-striker is out of his crease backing up. The ball then flies off the stumps and into the hands of a fielder never hitting the ground. Who is out?

Is striker out, because the ball never hit the ground, or is the non-striker run-out? Can they both be out?

It had the commentators baffled, and I've gotten a different answer from everyone I've asked. I asked my dad and he reckoned the striker is out, first action. But I'm not convinced.

Anyone know?
 
Re: Who is out?

Non-striker is out, run-out.

That was the dismissal that occured first.
 
Re: Who is out?

Emerald;158047 said:
But the stricker hit the ball first. He started first.
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Doesn't matter if the striker hit it first.

If the ball touched the bowler's hand and then hits the stumps with the non-striker out of his crease, then the non-striker is out regardless of what happens next. That was the dismissal that occured first.

No two players can be dismissed off the one ball.

I would be very surprised if the striker was given out.
 
Re: Who is out?

Ljp86;158050 said:
Doesn't matter if the striker hit it first.

If the ball touched the bowler's hand and then hits the stumps with the non-striker out of his crease, then the non-striker is out regardless of what happens next. That was the dismissal that occured first.

No two players can be dismissed off the one ball.

I would be very surprised if the striker was given out.
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i think you might be right there, the logical thing would be for the 1st dismissal to be the one
 
Re: Who is out?

Okay, what about if the ball doesn't hit the bowler's hand, but still goes onto the stumps and then is caught on the full by a fielder. Batsman (striker) out?

The reason I ask is that according to some people the stumps are part of the ground. Therefore the ball has technically hit the ground.
 
Re: Who is out?

Emerald;158079 said:
Okay, what about if the ball doesn't hit the bowler's hand, but still goes onto the stumps and then is caught on the full by a fielder. Batsman (striker) out?

The reason I ask is that according to some people the stumps are part of the ground. Therefore the ball has technically hit the ground.
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I would say that in that situation, the batsmen would be out caught.

The ball has not touched any part of the ground before or after it defleted from the stumps so the batsman would be out, caught. Even though the ball has hit the stumps, it still hasn't touched the ground meaning the batter is out.
 
Re: Who is out?

yeah the batsman would be out have we forgot allready when symonds hit the ball came of clarkes pad and went stright to mid wicket he was out then
 
Re: Who is out?

guys: law 32 of the Laws of Cricket "Caught"

32.2 Caught to Take Precedence

If the Criteria of the batsman being out caught are met and the striker is not out bowled, then he is out caught even though a decision against either batsman for another method of dismissal would be justified.

the dismissal caught takes precedence over every other dismissal with the exception of Bowled.
 
Re: Who is out?

aussieman;158317 said:
guys: law 32 of the Laws of Cricket "Caught"

32.2 Caught to Take Precedence

If the Criteria of the batsman being out caught are met and the striker is not out bowled, then he is out caught even though a decision against either batsman for another method of dismissal would be justified.

the dismissal caught takes precedence over every other dismissal with the exception of Bowled.
Click to expand...

So, the striker would be given out, you're saying that the catch would take precedence even if it happened after?

I'm so confused.
 
Re: Who is out?

yeah mate. It's confusing, so don't think you're the only one confused.

I umpire cricket for a living, so i know most of it like the back of my hand.

The striker would be out in your original question because he was out Caught and the dismissal (ie. batsman "out") Caught over-rules any other way a batsman can be out (including your run-out scenario) except Bowled.

confused? yeah, don't blame you
 
Re: Who is out?

Good find Aussieman.

Very interesting rule that, I went on the premise that whichever dismissal happened first would be the one that is used.
 
Re: Who is out?

all in a days work



the commentator at the end of the World Cup final (not Mark Nicholas) said "some people wouldn't be familiar with crickets arcain rules" and this is without a doubt one of crickets arcain rules.
 
Re: Who is out?

"I went on the premise that whichever dismissal happened first would be the one that is used."



And in MHO opinion I think this is right. As soon as the ball deflects
off the bowler/fielder and hits the stumps with the non-striker out of
his ground he is, technically, dismissed and the ball is now dead. Can't
get out the striker. My question is: could the fielders appeal for
the catch RATHER than the run-out?
 
Re: Who is out?

the fielders will have to appeal for the catch, because the run-out isn't out
 
Re: Who is out?

Definative answer to the original question - the striker is out.

Dismissals have a rank though you will struggle to find it in a rule book.

1 Bowled
2 Caught
3 LBW
4 Hit Wicket
5 Stumped
6 Run Out
7 Handled Ball
8 Interference
9 Timed Out

You will notice that the first 5 are all the striker, the next 3 could be the striker or the non-striker, and the last one can even be an incoming batsman.

The best examples I can give are
a - ball strikes pad and the wickets - bowled even though the LBW was out
b - batsman edges ball onto stumps and is then caught - bowled
c - ball strikes the wicket and the keeper stumps striker - bowled

The only things on the field which can negate a catch (if the striker is not bowled) is the fence and a fielders helmet. If the ball strikes the fence it is 4 (6 in some competitions). If the ball strikes a fielders helmet it is regarded as grounded and play goes on.


So.. in the example of the original question, and considering the dismissal rank, the umpire must consider as follows.

is the striker bowled -- no
is the striker caught -- yes
no futher consideration is made, the striker is out caught.

In an extreme example, consider this:-
The striker is struck on the pad, then drives the ball back to the bowler who deflects onto non-strikers stumps (non-striker is out of ground) the ball then deflects, ungrounded, to a fielder who drops the ball.

The umpire considers the following
is the striker bowled - no
is the striker caught - no
is the striker LBW - yes (in the opinion of the umpire)
So the run out never comes into consideration.

This ranking follows the premise that the dismissal of the striker, in the act of striking, is the primary action of the play. All things which follow are secondary to that act. Hence if a striker skies a ball and completes a run before the catch is made, the run does not count because the disnissal of the striker is the primary action.
 
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