Can Anyone Disguise This Variation?

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young_offie

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Hello spinners,
I am a young off spinner paranoid with his variations. :rolleyes:
I am familiar with different variations like off break, top-spinner, carrom ball and under-cutter (Swann's flying saucer). The other day I was experimenting with back spinners and all of a sudden I bowled this back spinning off break that turned like a doosra! To be honest I was expecting it to skid on which the ball did 30% of the time. Other 70% of the times it spun the other way kinda keeping low. The grip is the similar to off break but the releasing is different.
Can anyone else try this out? Here are some pics/vids of this variation:

Bowler's view:
2014-05-11%2013.31.16.jpg


Batsman's view:

2014-05-11%2013.31.31.jpg


Gifs:

Bowler view
Batsman view
 
young_offie said:
Hello spinners,
I am a young off spinner paranoid with his variations. :rolleyes:
I am familiar with different variations like off break, top-spinner, carrom ball and under-cutter (Swann's flying saucer). The other day I was experimenting with back spinners and all of a sudden I bowled this back spinning off break that turned like a doosra! To be honest I was expecting it to skid on which the ball did 30% of the time. Other 70% of the times it spun the other way kinda keeping low. The grip is the similar to off break but the releasing is different.
Can anyone else try this out? Here are some pics/vids of this variation:
Click to expand...

Its easy to disguise and very hard to pick if you do it right. I must get half my wickets with this delivery, most batsman seem to think it must have taken a funny bounce off the pitch. Good batsman will learn to pick it after they have seen you bowl it a few times, so obviously the trick is to get them out before they are able to figure it out.

I would recommend pushing your middle finger slightly closer to you index finger and pulling your ring finger off the ball altogether to give the ball a nice big gap to go through, in order to perfect the release.

Make sure you bring the ball up to the release point in the exact same way as a stock ball and then be sure to still give the wrist a big twist like an offbreak ONCE you have released the ball. This will help disguise it.
 
Spin Lizard said:
I would call that a 'leg-cutter' and...best of luck fooling a decent batsman with that. ;)
Click to expand...


The thing is, even now doosras are reasonably well known, no batsman of any standard expects an off break bowler to bowl one the other way, so they're simply not looking for it. Unless its a really obvious legbreak, they almost certainly won't notice until its too late. A ball like this, if he can get it to turn just a few inches away from the bat, could knock back a lot of off stumps.
 
I mean, I'm judging from a written description and a pair of gifs, but its far from an off-spin release. Arm balls work because it's close to the same action, this looks like a leg cutter.

If the batsman isn't watching your release, it could work. Like I said, best of luck fooling a decent batsman.
 
Spin Lizard said:
I mean, I'm judging from a written description and a pair of gifs, but its far from an off-spin release. Arm balls work because it's close to the same action, this looks like a leg cutter.

If the batsman isn't watching your release, it could work. Like I said, best of luck fooling a decent batsman.
Click to expand...

It looks identical to a finger spin release position to me. No batsman without superpowers can see what the fingers do as the ball is being released - its hard enough with a slow motion camera - all a batsman can pick up is the sillhouette of the arm as it comes up and over. If you can make the sillhouette look as close as possible to your stock delivery, then the only way to pick it is to spot the spin in the air... If you can scramble the seam, that becomes very difficult as well.
 
Spin Lizard said:
https://imgflip.com/gif/8pmjj

Does not look like an off-spin delivery.

Q: Can anyone disguise this delivery?

A: Yes, first get the batsman to not watch you release it. Then...
Click to expand...


In slow motion and close up, yes. A googly and a legbreak are also easily distinguishable, as are an offbreak and a doosra or a legbreak and a slider or even an inswinger and an outswinger. Yet even international batsman cannot pick them in real life.

From 22 yards with the arm whizzing over? Not a chance in hell you could pick that. All a batsman sees is the sillhouette - and the sillhouette of that delivery is identical to the sillhouette of an offbreak.
 
Spin Lizard said:
International batsman cannot pick wronguns.
icon_think.gif
Click to expand...

How come they keep getting bowled through the gate by them then every time I turn on the IPL?


On another note, I remember playing in a game a long time ago where the oppo had a bowler who bowled offcutters with a legspinner's action. It confused the hell into everyone, he literally had the exact same bowling action as Warne. You would have sworn blind he was bowling leggies. If I showed you a video of him bowling you would tell me he was bowling leg spin.

Of course off cutters can look a lot like leg breaks, hence the reason the flipper was invented; just like leg cutters and off breaks look quite similar.
 
So, a flipper is an off-cutter now? How many googlies have gone through the gate in this seasons IPL? More to the point, how many of Ashwin's variations actually work? Why does Narine get better results with literally two different balls?

You are talking rubbish.
 
Spin Lizard said:
So, a flipper is an off-cutter now? How many googlies have gone through the gate in this seasons IPL? More to the point, how many of Ashwin's variations actually work? Why does Narine get better results with literally two different balls?

You are talking rubbish.
Click to expand...


A flipper and an offcutter are very similar, yes. Hence the reason a lot of people find their flippers break from off to leg.

How come people can't pick Narine if its so ************** easy for any "decent batsmen" to immediately spot any slight variation in finger action due to their superhuman vision?

If Sunil Narine came on here, presumably you'd tell him his variations were useless and you could easily ******** every ball out of the park.
 
Look, disguise is disguise. Narine, there's maybe a handful of people in the world picking him. Ashwin's legspinners? Please.

A flipper and an off-cutter are not similar at all.

You talk rubbish about 'superhuman vision' and 'slight variation in finger action', when what we are talking about is a leg-cutter bowled with an off-spin grip.
I think maybe your eyesight is not so good, yet you think it's about the same as everyone else's.
 
Spin Lizard said:
Look, disguise is disguise. Narine, there's maybe a handful of people in the world picking him. Ashwin's legspinners? Please.

A flipper and an off-cutter are not similar at all.

You talk rubbish about 'superhuman vision' and 'slight variation in finger action', when what we are talking about is a leg-cutter bowled with an off-spin grip.
I think maybe your eyesight is not so good, yet you think it's about the same as everyone else's.
Click to expand...

A flipper and an offcutter: both bowled with a pronated arm and the fingers running down the back of the ball. For a flipper the arm is slightly more pronated and the thumb gets involved to add extra impetus.

I think, with all due respect, you are a little out of your depth in this conversation.

A leg cutter and an offbreak can also look extremely similar from 22 yards. Its cute that you think you would be able to pick the difference, but I think you're a little naive as to your own ability.
 
I'm out of my depth? Flipper, fingers down the back? Bwahahaha!

A leg cutter and an off break can look extremely similar, if you don't watch the release. Or if by similar, you mean "cricket ball bowled by bowler".

You talk rubbish, SLA. Your brain is topologically pronated.
 
Spin Lizard said:
I'm out of my depth? Flipper, fingers down the back? Bwahahaha!

A leg cutter and an off break can look extremely similar, if you don't watch the release. Or if by similar, you mean "cricket ball bowled by bowler".

You talk rubbish, SLA. Your brain is topologically pronated.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a flipper has backspin. hence fingers down the back.

Unless you would like to entertain us all with a description another means by which a ball can be bowled with backspin?
 
I dunno how many times Warne and Jenner legspin classes have been posted, I'm not going to again. Find it yourself. Definitely 'click your fingers' gets mentioned in there (thats a clue for you).

I'm actually learning some anatomical jargon, namely pronation/supination, in order to decipher how an off-cutter can be bowled with a pronated arm. I suspect you might be talking rubbish on this score also but, without knowing what the term means exactly, I cannot be sure.
 
So, as near as I can figure, a pronated arm would have you bowling 'out the back of the hand'.
Am I out of my depth in the anatomy discussion also?

Or were you talking rubbish?

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